Anti Newtype weapons, systems and MS

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Underrated GM Custom
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Re: Anti Newtype weapons, systems and MS

Ah gotcha, yeah I'm familiar with all the main beats there I just didn't know if Gihren or perhaps Kycillia had any specific propaganda regarding Newtypes, since Newtypes themselves were treated as something of a superstition prior to and during the OYW. I suppose awareness of Newtypes was limited just to the research institutes which of course Moses was part of, although I don't recall which Zabi the NT research institute fell under.
i wonder what would have happened to amuro if he had used an EXAM equipped unit
The whole point of EXAM is it's a cursed system inhabitated by a Newtypes souls which has been twisted and corrupted by the hatred, in this case from Dr. Moses. Having a Newtype pilot a machine that has a malevolent NT spirit inside of it probably wouldn't end well.

As for Alice, it's an AI which is limited by its designers and its learning capacity. I don't think it could keep up with Amuro and instead slow him down. Psycoframe, psycommu and biosensors are a better fit for a NT, as Seto Kaiba mentioned in another thread The O's Biosensor helped Scirocco while maneuvering the great machine.
The Biosensor improves a MS's responsiveness by enabling the MS's onboard computer to predict the next action of a sufficiently-strong Newtype pilot and take appropriate preparatory action(s).
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MythSearcher
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Re: Anti Newtype weapons, systems and MS

Underrated GM Custom wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 8:18 am Ah gotcha, yeah I'm familiar with all the main beats there I just didn't know if Gihren or perhaps had any specific propaganda regarding Newtypes, since Newtypes themselves were treated as something of a superstition prior to and during the OYW. I suppose awareness of Newtypes was limited just to the research institutes which of course Moses was part of, although I don't recall which Zabi the NT research institute fell under.
Kycillia noticed the death rate of pilots is significantly lower than predicted values after the Battle of Loum, and started the research to find out the reason, and finding out the pilots exhibiting exceptionally fast reaction speeds and later finding out they sense and give out psycommu waves. This became the NT research. The name has basically nothing to do with the propaganda Gihren was using in his speeches, calling all spacenoids NTs and Zeon citizens more NT than others.
i wonder what would have happened to amuro if he had used an EXAM equipped unit
The whole point of EXAM is it's a cursed system inhabitated by a Newtypes souls which has been twisted and corrupted by the hatred, in this case from Dr. Moses. Having a Newtype pilot a machine that has a malevolent NT spirit inside of it probably wouldn't end well.
[/quote]

on the other hand, the NTs maybe able to actually communicate and settle the hatred.
Though it will be fun if the unit just decides to destroy itself to kill the NT within it.
As for Alice, it's an AI which is limited by its designers and its learning capacity. I don't think it could keep up with Amuro and instead slow him down. Psycoframe, psycommu and biosensors are a better fit for a NT, as Seto Kaiba mentioned in another thread The O's Biosensor helped Scirocco while maneuvering the great machine.
Biosensor is very unstable and not really suitable for combat. I liken it to putting the unstable part of cyber NTs to the machine but the damage potential against the pilot is still there(see Kamille)

If we take Ecole du Ciel's explanation of NTs having a negative reaction time(they start reacting BEFORE they see the threat/target), ALICE would not be that useful, yes.
However, the negative reaction time is very likely due to psycommu waves being sensed even around obstacles, and according to Sentinel's attached terms explanation(imidam0093), they already have sensors for waves travelling in Minovsky particles, meaning ALICE should also have, at least limited, function to sense psycommu waves as well, and can likely learn to detect and be aware of objects not in line of sight. Considering even a regular simulator also gives out psycommu waves(thus Asuna and other NT pilots like Banagher can sense it and have negative reaction time even in simulation), it would be reasonable to assume their sensors can pick up the signal, just that the machines don't usually process them as useful data.(but they surely can sense the change in density of Minovsky particles even during OYW, and waves are just density change of a medium.)
Also, Amuro can always find ways to fully utilise his machine, if it got ALICE, he will use it in innovative ways.(note the wired bazooka)
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Re: Anti Newtype weapons, systems and MS

Underrated GM Custom wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 8:18 am Ah gotcha, yeah I'm familiar with all the main beats there I just didn't know if Gihren or perhaps Kycillia had any specific propaganda regarding Newtypes, since Newtypes themselves were treated as something of a superstition prior to and during the OYW. I suppose awareness of Newtypes was limited just to the research institutes which of course Moses was part of, although I don't recall which Zabi the NT research institute fell under.
The Flanagan Institute was Kycilia's pet project.

Underrated GM Custom wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 8:18 am The whole point of EXAM is it's a cursed system inhabitated by a Newtypes souls which has been twisted and corrupted by the hatred, in this case from Dr. Moses. Having a Newtype pilot a machine that has a malevolent NT spirit inside of it probably wouldn't end well.
Well, no... the "whole point" of the EXAM system is that it's a means to "level the playing field" by providing a purely technological means to replicate the seemingly prescient situational awareness exhibited by Newtypes is the form of a semi-autonomous pilot assist system for "Oldtype" pilots. It's meant to allow normal soldiers to rival or beat Newtypes at their own game.
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Re: Anti Newtype weapons, systems and MS

MythSearcher wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 8:50 pm Biosensor is very unstable and not really suitable for combat. I liken it to putting the unstable part of cyber NTs to the machine but the damage potential against the pilot is still there(see Kamille)
I don't know it seemed to work pretty well for Scirocco and Kamille. In supplemental material it doesn't seem very useful, the Delta Plus mentions having one but it not doing a whole lot.

I'm so sure about regular sensors picking up Psycommu waves, the Psycommu is a large bulky system specifically designed for Psycommu waves I don't expect other sensors system were designed to pick those up.
Seto Kaiba wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 10:44 pm Well, no... the "whole point" of the EXAM system is that it's a means to "level the playing field" by providing a purely technological means to replicate the seemingly prescient situational awareness exhibited by Newtypes is the form of a semi-autonomous pilot assist system for "Oldtype" pilots. It's meant to allow normal soldiers to rival or beat Newtypes at their own game.
Agreed. When I say "the whole point of EXAM" what I meant was the whole point of the EXAM story.*
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Re: Anti Newtype weapons, systems and MS

It does seem like the Biosensor works, albeit maybe in a limited capacity.

Kamille and Scirocco were amongst the most powerful Newtypes at the time, so it seems as though the system was just too powerful for use on many other pilots. The profile of the Delta Plus even states that it had a hard time finding a place on any team, due to the difficulty of finding pilots for it.

Even then it's only brought aboard the Ra Callium because they're short on machines, and Riddhe is hardly able to use it's full potential before switching to the Banshee (that doesn't go any better, but still).
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Re: Anti Newtype weapons, systems and MS

Mafty wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 4:41 pm It does seem like the Biosensor works, albeit maybe in a limited capacity.

Kamille and Scirocco were amongst the most powerful Newtypes at the time, so it seems as though the system was just too powerful for use on many other pilots. The profile of the Delta Plus even states that it had a hard time finding a place on any team, due to the difficulty of finding pilots for it.

Even then it's only brought aboard the Ra Callium because they're short on machines, and Riddhe is hardly able to use it's full potential before switching to the Banshee (that doesn't go any better, but still).
If you take Tomino's word for it, Kamille is The Strongest Newtype.
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Re: Anti Newtype weapons, systems and MS

Underrated GM Custom wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2023 6:09 am I don't know it seemed to work pretty well for Scirocco and Kamille. In supplemental material it doesn't seem very useful, the Delta Plus mentions having one but it not doing a whole lot.

I'm so sure about regular sensors picking up Psycommu waves, the Psycommu is a large bulky system specifically designed for Psycommu waves I don't expect other sensors system were designed to pick those up.
I also works for Judah, but the problem is that on average, the Biosensor is worse and can be more unstable in combat, making the pilots to be more unstable as well. Kamille losing his conscious at the end, Scirocco unable to figure out The-O is actually moving(it is indeed thrusting upwards when he kept saying why won't The-O move)

Psycommu systems and even quasi ones like Biosensor we are talking about enhances the Psycommu waves and is for both input and output. Regular sensors are only for detection. Since Psycommu waves are basically just density change of Minosvky particles, and regular sensors can sense the density of Minovsky particles(thus you see them saying the density increase meaning there's enemies closing in), sensing the waves is perfectly reasonable. What regular sensors can't do is amplify the signals from a particular person(like the pilot) and let the pilot control the mcahine(like the MS they are piloting or bits and funnels) So regular sensors can pick up the waves, but don't have any way to decode them. And honestly, even the psycommu systems likely can't decode them as well, they likely just pick up the usual patterns and match them to certain behaviours.(My theory is that they only have the patterns of well known test subjects and thus not all NTs can control funnels if their wave patterns are different from those test subjects)
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Re: Anti Newtype weapons, systems and MS

Interesting, do you recall which source describes Psycommu waves as density changes of Minovsky particles? Ah I now I understand what you mean regarding regular sensors picking up when Minvosky Particles have reached combat density.

Interesting theory on Funnels/Bits only working for NT patterns they have a record of. It would also explain why developing Anti-NT weapons aren't worthwhile if their countermeasures would only work on people that fit a certain brain pattern.
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