Gerbera and Gerbera Tetra?

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Mafty
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Gerbera and Gerbera Tetra?

So what exactly is the difference between the purposed Gundam Gerbera and the ultimate Gerbera Tetra? Is it the same unit with different armor? Or did they add or remove weaponry from the prototype to the end rollout?
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Re: Gerbera and Gerbera Tetra?

GP04 has a shield and a long beam rifle. Gerbera Tetra has 4 x 100mm machine gun and a beam machine gun.
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Dark Duel
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Re: Gerbera and Gerbera Tetra?

They're cosmetically different, and the armament isn't the same. The Gundam Gerbera has a long beam rifle with an integrated beam jutte for intercepting enemy beam sabers, and a shield. It also has a pair of beam sabers, which are stored on its backpack.
The Gerbera Tetra also has beam sabers, but they're stored in its thighs. Apart from that, it has no shield, and uses a long-barreled beam machine-gun instead of a beam rifle. It also has two shell-firing beam machine-guns on each forearm, which are entirely new weapons.

Setting aside weapons and looking at performance specs, the Gerbera Tetra also has significantly higher thruster output (216,000kg compared to 171,000 for the original Gundam Gerbera).
And then there's the Sturm Boosters.
The Gerbera Tetra uses a single large Sturm Booster with three large thrusters at its base and two smaller maneuvering thrusters on each side, one at the base and one at the tip.
The Gundam Gerbera had three smaller Sturm Boosters, each with a greater number of smaller thrusters(looking at pics, it appears that there are a total of five) on the tip of each one.

If I may be permitted a small bit of speculation, I might guess that the Gerbera Tetra is much faster, but the Gundam Gerbera would have been more maneuverable.
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Re: Gerbera and Gerbera Tetra?

Dark Duel wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:59 pm Setting aside weapons and looking at performance specs, the Gerbera Tetra also has significantly higher thruster output (216,000kg compared to 171,000 for the original Gundam Gerbera).
Where did you find the numbers for the original GP04 Gerbera's thrust? I remember looking at MAHQ for that a while back but never found anything.
If I may be permitted a small bit of speculation, I might guess that the Gerbera Tetra is much faster, but the Gundam Gerbera would have been more maneuverable.
That's funny I was thinking the same but reversed. :) The Tetra seems more geared towards anti-mobile suit combat so I would expect it to be more maneuverable to deal with close range threats. Whereas GP04 with the large fuel capacity from the three sturm boosters and the longer range rifle would be better suited to moving fast and breaking past enemy lines to attack high value targets.
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Re: Gerbera and Gerbera Tetra?

Looking at it you can see that the 4 Gundams in the project were each basically suited to a role or category. The Zephyranthes was largely an improved version of the RX-78-2, and indeed required improvements as the war raged on. The Physalis was designed for Tactical Nuclear combat, so naturally it is probably tied with the Dendrobium as the most powerful of the group. The Dendrobium itself is decently powerful on it’s own, but then it’s put in the Spaceship sized Orchis , which is probably the biggest MS attachment armor ever. So by comparison the Gundam Gerbera prototype is rather minimal; powerful on it’s own, yet plain compared to the GP02 and GP03, indeed it’s noted as a space based remake of the GP01. Aside from the fact that the GP04 never being completed as planned is probably what lead to the GP01 Full Burnern modification, the Gerbera Tetra seems to keep the GP04’s original role, Basically an assault based speedster with a large gun. However given how the main gun differs between the two units, it leads to the question of which gun is actually more powerful? Or if they're both equally powerful, just suited to different roles like GM Custom said.
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Re: Gerbera and Gerbera Tetra?

which gun is actually more powerful
I don't know if GP04's beam rifle power rating is listed but typically a long beam rifle has a higher power rating than a standard beam rifle. Unless you're referring to the prototype beam rifle that GP01 used once.
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Re: Gerbera and Gerbera Tetra?

Mafty wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:12 pm So what exactly is the difference between the purposed Gundam Gerbera and the ultimate Gerbera Tetra? Is it the same unit with different armor? Or did they add or remove weaponry from the prototype to the end rollout?
Master Archive unfortunately has fairly little to say about it.

What it does mention of the GP04's development after the Federation Forces cancelled it is that Anaheim continued it as an in-house development to evaluate new hardware. It was rechristened Anaheim Gundam Prototype 4 (AGX-04) and they exchanged the standard Federation exterior for a more streamlined set of armor plates. It was outfitted with a few pieces of hardware that were being prototyped for other uses, like the mono-eye sensor. The detachable/disposable "Sturm booster" units of the original GP04 spec were integrated into the Mobile Suit in order to increase their output.

Unfortunately that's about all they have to say on the actual changes in the design.

Most of what's said thereafter is some heavy lampshade hanging where it's noted that Anaheim Electronics terminated further development of the Anaheim Gundam Prototype 04 after the prototype was lost under mysterious circumstances the company is mysteriously tight-lipped about. The book tables the "theory' that the AGX-04 was covertly provided to the Delaz fleet in exchange for the Delaz fleet providing Anaheim with data from actual combat. (It is said that there was insufficient proof to make the accusation stick, but it is also suspected that the Sazabi was a clandestine offshoot of the AGX-04's development.)
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Mafty
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Re: Gerbera and Gerbera Tetra?

That's actually a lot of info ,thanks. It's always interesting to see how Gundam ties newer works into older storylines, especially with their technology timeline(the Loto being the predecessor to the F91's Guntank for example). I'd never thought of the Sazabi being tied to the Gerbera Tetra, but it actually makes a lot of sense. Indeed looking at the designs they are in fact quite similar actually (both being hulking suits with a circular torso, covered in brightly painted armor). It is also interesting that Anaheim may merely have started off the suit as a testbed, which may not have been meant for actual combat(of course that quickly changed).

On another note, does anyone else think that the Gottrlatan from Victory Gundam is kind of like a far future variant of the Gerbera Tetra? They are both Pink suits with an enormous Gun, after all.
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Re: Gerbera and Gerbera Tetra?

Mafty wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:17 am They are both Pink suits with an enormous Gun, after all.
That's because it's actually developed from Zanneck. Here's a page from Gundam MS Bible 146.
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Re: Gerbera and Gerbera Tetra?

If anything, it's kind of amazing nobody ever managed to charge Anaheim staffers with any kind of crimes given how often they blatant supplied their spare prototypes and so on to Zeon remnants and Neo Zeon movements with barely more than cosmetic changes.
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Re: Gerbera and Gerbera Tetra?

Seto Kaiba wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 6:55 pm If anything, it's kind of amazing nobody ever managed to charge Anaheim staffers with any kind of crimes given how often they blatant supplied their spare prototypes and so on to Zeon remnants and Neo Zeon movements with barely more than cosmetic changes.
Likely because EFF also wants those remnants supplied so they keep their jobs and nobody seriously investigate who supplied the machines.

Or the companies cut off by AE have some kind of responsible person charged off screen for being careless handling of military secret.
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Re: Gerbera and Gerbera Tetra?

0083 Rebellion makes an attempt at investigating AE corruption but conveniently the fall guy for the GP04 is found dead and all their other leads go nowhere.
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Re: Gerbera and Gerbera Tetra?

Underrated GM Custom wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 1:56 am 0083 Rebellion makes an attempt at investigating AE corruption but conveniently the fall guy for the GP04 is found dead and all their other leads go nowhere.
GP04G has nothing to do with AE's corruption. Either Bask or Jamitov bought it and gave it to Cima with the deal that they join EFF. They probably have the full documentation prepared for it but is top secret. If anything, it's EF's corruption.
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Re: Gerbera and Gerbera Tetra?

MythSearcher wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 3:24 am
Underrated GM Custom wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 1:56 am 0083 Rebellion makes an attempt at investigating AE corruption but conveniently the fall guy for the GP04 is found dead and all their other leads go nowhere.
GP04G has nothing to do with AE's corruption. Either Bask or Jamitov bought it and gave it to Cima with the deal that they join EFF. They probably have the full documentation prepared for it but is top secret. If anything, it's EF's corruption.
Refer to my previous post referencing Master Archive which contradicts your assertion here.

Master Archive presents the view that Anaheim Electronics directly gave the proprietary Anaheim Gundam Prototype 4 (the Gerbera Tetra) to the Delaz fleet under a clandestine "field test" agreement similar to the ones they would later make with the Anti-Earth Union Group, Karaba, or the reformed Crossbone Vanguard. Off-the-books prototype or limited-production Mobile Suits in exchange for receiving the operational data from their use in live combat.

It's worth noting THIS view is also supported by other sources, including the Entertainment Bible for 0083 and PG GP01 kit.

(Incidentally, those same resources ALSO mention the Federation Government promising stiff consequences for Anaheim if it leaked and Federal Forces materials or data.)
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Mafty
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Re: Gerbera and Gerbera Tetra?

Anaheim's double dealing is well known (I seem to remember October sheepishly apologizing to Amuro and Chan in CCA about Anaheim selling to both sides, of course that's actually a bigger plot point there). I also remember reading that Anaheim was structured so that each department acted independent of each other; thus they could penalize one department, without it affecting the whole company, while management could claim plausible deniability.

Indeed Anaheim had both Zeon loyalists and people who only cared for the profit that could be made, thus it makes sense they were double dealing.

That being said Bask and Jamitov were clearly setting up things to go wrong so that they could form the Titans and do things their way, they just weren't tied to Anaheim's schemes.
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Re: Gerbera and Gerbera Tetra?

One unintended effect of AE produce almost everything is how the idea of Zeon's United Maintenance Plan return and even bigger than it was. Sadly we don't really know how other manufacturers like Buch Concern or Neo Zeon's in-house developer take the compatibility with AE's parts into consideration (and it isn't like too many people would care IRL, sadly). But I think it's origin of RC era's Universal Standard.
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Re: Gerbera and Gerbera Tetra?

There is far more information on the Early UC Wars than the later ones. For instance Zanscare is shown to have captured Side 2's SNRI facilities, But I'm not sure it is ever stated who built the Crossbone Vanguards mech's. Also we know that Zanscare has Side 2 as a home base, but we never find out where the home base of the Xi Gundam in Gundam Hathaway, it's not made clear if it was commissioned by Mafty , or if they bought out an EF design.

It really comes down to the fact that the more popular the show or timeline is, the more background material they will make.
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Re: Gerbera and Gerbera Tetra?

Kuruni wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 3:51 am One unintended effect of AE produce almost everything is how the idea of Zeon's United Maintenance Plan return and even bigger than it was. Sadly we don't really know how other manufacturers like Buch Concern or Neo Zeon's in-house developer take the compatibility with AE's parts into consideration (and it isn't like too many people would care IRL, sadly). But I think it's origin of RC era's Universal Standard.
We have at least a vague idea... Buch Aerodynamics, the Buch Concern's aerospace division, is noted to initially made fairly extensive use of Anaheim Electronics and Yashima Heavy Industries to manufacture parts for their Mobile Suits. Mass production of the Den'an Zon was done in secret thanks to Buch Aerodynamics publicly advertising a disarmed, detuned, lightly modified Den'an Zon as a forthcoming mass production civilian MS called the Dessa. They were able to bulk order parts from Anaheim and Yashima without anyone being the wiser until the Crossbone Vanguard began using its mass produced Den'an series Mobile Suits against the Federation.

Whether Anaheim was truly oblivious or was a willing participant in the Buch Concern's antics while feigning ignorance is not stated. It is noted that they too received the leaked specifications of the Den'an series that contributed to SNRI and Anaheim's development of smaller MS's.


Mafty wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 9:44 am There is far more information on the Early UC Wars than the later ones. For instance Zanscare is shown to have captured Side 2's SNRI facilities, But I'm not sure it is ever stated who built the Crossbone Vanguards mech's.
It is. Buch Aerodynamics, an operating subsidiary/division of the Buch Concern... with manufacturing support from Anaheim Electronics and Yashima Heavy Industries under cover of a supposed mass production civilian MS line as described above.

Mafty wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 9:44 am Also we know that Zanscare has Side 2 as a home base, but we never find out where the home base of the Xi Gundam in Gundam Hathaway, it's not made clear if it was commissioned by Mafty , or if they bought out an EF design.
I believe it's stated that Mafty ordered the Xi Gundam from Anaheim specifically for their attack on the Federation General Assembly.

Mafty wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 9:44 am It really comes down to the fact that the more popular the show or timeline is, the more background material they will make.
More like how many model kits the series has... since Gundam seems to put most of the info in model kit booklets rather than artbooks.
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Re: Gerbera and Gerbera Tetra?

The whole Dessa thing is very well planned. It seems Buch Concern knew of Anaheim's Double Dealing and probably hid this from them :If Anaheim knew what was going on, they probably wouldn't have cared, but Anaheim still may have sold the designs to another buyer, leading to the plans being uncovered.

That being said it seems that Buch Aerodynamics must have built most of the suits on their own. When you look at the amount of Mobile Suits fielded by the Crossbone Vanguard ( The mass produced frontline suits the Den’an-Zon and Den’an-Gei, the limited production commanders type units the Berga-Dalas, and Berga-Giros, TWO separate reconnaissance units the Ebirhu-S and Dahgi-Iris, Cecily's custom Vigna-Ghina, Plus Carozzo's Lafressia), A flagship and three separate classes of regular ships, not to mention the Bug unit (SPOILER, I seriously doubt Anaheim would build this weapon if they knew it would kill nearly all of humanity, themselves included). It seems like Anaheim was doing more than they let on(which is definitely possible), or the Crossbone ordered various parts for every suit and ship separately, and built them in their own colony (I seem to remember reading somewhere that the Buch Concern ended up with their own colony, it would certainly explain where all the Vanguard members were housed and trained, plus where they store all the ships and MS).

It definitely makes sense that Mafty commissioned the Xi Gundam (and probably the Messer as well) since it is shown that the Federation dosen't actually know anything about the unit(let's face it, stealing or buying plans from the enemy results in the enemy still knowing the suit's weaknesses).

The whole Anaheim Electronics plot angle is rather interesting; you can even see AU's with background info on MS production; like Morgenroete, Clark, Asimov & Heinlein Design Bureaus, and Terminal amongst the main military manufacturing in SEED, Madorna Workshop in AGE, The Scientist in Wing, and for a non Gundam example, a large part of the plot in Macross Plus is the competition between two Military Manufactures.

I've heard that the majority of side materials about MS production is in model kit manuals. However I'm glad there are wikis and sites with information, since it's very rare to actually have the model kits translated.
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Re: Gerbera and Gerbera Tetra?

Mafty wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 3:57 pm The whole Dessa thing is very well planned. It seems Buch Concern knew of Anaheim's Double Dealing and probably hid this from them :If Anaheim knew what was going on, they probably wouldn't have cared, but Anaheim still may have sold the designs to another buyer, leading to the plans being uncovered.
When all is said and done, the Delaz fleet's offensive in 0083 feels like the "start of darkness" for Anaheim Electronics.

The most lasting impact of Operation Stardust seems to have been Anaheim Electronics discovering a new business model for its defense industry divisions. Facing no significant consequences for AE Research Division 2 leaking intelligence to the Delaz fleet that enabled them to steal one of its two Gundam prototypes and then straight up giving them the second one seems to have sold Anaheim on the idea that it didn't need to wait for conflicts to occur naturally to create demand for its new mobile weapons. Instead, it could create predictable demand for new and better mobile weapons in the Federation Forces by arming anti-government forces like the Delaz fleet, the Neo Zeon movements, or the Sleeves. Nobody important is going to miss a few Zeeks, so they could use them to test new technologies in the field in exchange for the development data and turn around and sell the perfected technology to the Federation Forces who were too preoccupied to have the time to investigate where it came from or who'd tested it. They kept doing it, and it just kept working. They played both sides against the middle and won every time.

Mafty wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 9:44 am That being said it seems that Buch Aerodynamics must have built most of the suits on their own.
Assembled, possibly... but what got them off the ground to begin with was manufacturing support from Anaheim and Yashima.


Mafty wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 9:44 am The whole Anaheim Electronics plot angle is rather interesting; you can even see AU's with background info on MS production; like Morgenroete, Clark, Asimov & Heinlein Design Bureaus, and Terminal amongst the main military manufacturing in SEED, Madorna Workshop in AGE, The Scientist in Wing, and for a non Gundam example, a large part of the plot in Macross Plus is the competition between two Military Manufactures.
... that last one is very different.

Aside from Zeon's developments in and before the One Year War, Gundam's settings rarely (if ever) features any kind of design competition or a competitive evaluation process in which multiple manufacturers compete for military contracts the way they do in the real world. Macross Plus depicts a fairly realistic scenario where the military solicited proposals from multiple manufacturers for its next main fighter and is in the process of testing prototypes of the two finalists before awarding the contract to a manufacturer. There's two main companies (Shinsei and General Galaxy) in that feature but the setting mentions a number of smaller ones as well and neither is shown to be selling to anti-government forces. It wasn't until Macross Delta that we got an amoral company selling arms to both sides in the form of the Epsilon Foundation, though they were only ever a regional player. Gundam's manufacturers tend to be monopolies or near-monopolies... Anaheim was the only show in town after the One Year War until SNRI rolled up, then it was SNRI for a while, eventually settling on Venus Globe having a monopoly on technological development while the Earth sphere stagnates. Or in Wing, where all Mobile Suits were developed from the work of the five scientists.

Mafty wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 9:44 am I've heard that the majority of side materials about MS production is in model kit manuals. However I'm glad there are wikis and sites with information, since it's very rare to actually have the model kits translated.
It probably wouldn't be so bad if people were willing to pay for grey market translations... translation is time-intensive work and a lot of translators are not exactly OK with working outside their area of interest for free.
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