Repair Capabilities onboard a Musai or Chivvay

[Underrated GM Custom]

One thing I've been curious about recently is what level of repairs can be done on a Musai and Chivvay class cruiser during the OYW and their later counterparts (0080, 0083). Aside from regular maintenance what kind of repairs could be performed onboard a Musai? If say a MS-06 lost an arm or a leg in combat would they be able to replace the missing limb or would they need to transfer the damaged MS to a base or support ship?

The Musai always seemed very cramped, especially so for the Komusai shuttle whereas the Chivvay seemed to have considerably more room for technicians to work.

[Mafty]

The original Chivvay (like a number of other cruisers in the OYW) wasn't built with hangar space because it predated Mobile Suits as a concept, however these were easily retrofitted to carry the suits. The Musai being a newer class actually had mobile suit storage capacity to astart with, however this was still limited to either 4 or 6 suits depending on whether the Komusai capsule was attached. As for repair facilities; it's hard to say, and not something that's really focused on. Often Gundam glosses over repairs to suits and the necessary replacements (unless the main characters need to get creative in their designs at short notice, like the Zeta Zaku, The Ez-8, the Dra-C, which still has its own unified design and color scheme, etc.). For example in Gundam SEED, ZAFT is able to repair several of the damaged units they stole from the Earth Alliance(Like the Duel Gundam getting its arm instantly replaced), not to mention never running out of Gundam specific weaponry and artillery, despite them only having the weapons they stole with the units.

That being said as mobile suits become more common, the ships are designed to more properly accommodate them. Post OYW most Federation and Zeon ships are shown to be large enough to house at least half a dozen Mobile Suits and we regularly see teams of mechanics on each ship. The final production class of the Chivvay and Musai defiantly look like they had hangar space for repairs.

[Seto Kaiba]

I'll take "Questions without official answers" for 100, Alex.

Warships are pretty cramped by nature. A warship of any scale tends to have at least one workshop shop compartment to facilitate maintenance and repair for operational wear-and-tear and minor battle damage to the ship itself. Aircraft carriers have additional workshop facilities to support routine maintenance and repair/replacement of individual systems and a limited supply of replacement parts for key and failure-prone systems. Where their repair capabilities end tends to be repairs that involve large-scale disassembly of the aircraft (e.g. structural repair) or work where the subject aircraft needs to be motionless (e.g. reapplying stealth coatings). Those jobs would be managed by transferring the aircraft to a shore base to be serviced.

Back in World War II, which Gundam's early UC bases itself heavily upon, fleets tended to travel with dedicated auxiliary ships for handling most repair operations to carrier-borne aircraft. Crews could rig running repairs, patch bullet holes, replace engine parts, and so on but the facilities of the fleet's aircraft repair ships were needed for repairing major battle damage. It seems a safe bet that the same probably holds true in the UC, since the Mobile Suits are the war's aircraft-equivalent in space and they're even bigger and harder to maintain in the field.

[Mafty]

Also we do frequently see supply ships in various Gundam series (Papua in FG, Debatably La Vie En Rose in Operation Stardust and the Gryps and Neo Zeon Wars, The Squid Class repair ship in Victory Gundam, The Marseille III class and Gondwana class in the Cosmic Era, etc). Plus the After War Era (which depending on how you view Turn A Gundam and the official timeline, May be part of the UC) has numerous large scale Landships, which almost certainly have enough space to do repairs.

It's interesting to note however that in the UC Timeline, that the Federation really doesn't seem to have as many supply and repair ships compared to Zeon. This is probably because the Federation was a late adopter of MS and space based technology (look at how much of FG the White Base is damaged for example), while Zeon was much more in to the latest technology.

[Underrated GM Custom]

Gotcha so it sounds like there isn't any official answers out there. From on screen appearances we generally only see repairs occur on the main character's ship (Pegasus or Argama class) but I was hoping there might be something out there for the rank and file ships of Zeon or the Federation.

[JEFFPIATT]

Also we do frequently see supply ships in various Gundam series (Papua in FG, Debatably La Vie En Rose in Operation Stardust and the Gryps and Neo Zeon Wars, The Squid Class repair ship in Victory Gundam, The Marseille III class and Gondwana class in the Cosmic Era, etc). Plus the After War Era (which depending on how you view Turn A Gundam and the official timeline, May be part of the UC) has numerous large scale Landships, which almost certainly have enough space to do repairs.

It's interesting to note however that in the UC Timeline, that the Federation really doesn't seem to have as many supply and repair ships compared to Zeon. This is probably because the Federation was a late adopter of MS and space based technology (look at how much of FG the White Base is damaged for example), while Zeon was much more in to the latest technology.

there is also a difference in navel policy when the oyo starts when ships are first introduced to carry MS. the Musai is more a Battleship with a MS Carrier deck designed in to the lower half. the Pegasus class is designed to deploy and support its MS first and support them from the back like a modern aircraft carrier. the Chivvay refit we see in the orignal series they basically took the hanger door on the fighter and cargo bay and made it bigger so MS could jump out.

[Mafty]

Definitely, the Pegasus Class was a major game changer. It's not necessarily so obvious depending on the series however. Despite being Real Robot, one of several things Gundam carries over from Super Robot is the factor of a small team of powerful robots fighting the enemy. Other series like Zeta, 0080, Stardust Memory and Thunderbolt, do a better job of showing the MS carrying capacity.

Anyone else find it odd that Zeon never tries to build a large carrier ship? Granted no one in Zeon would want to build a ship that resembles the Peagusus class , but when you look at the fact that late era Zeon only carry half a dozen MS while ships like the Dogosse Giar can carry almost 50, it seems odd they don't build bigger carriers.

[Kuruni]

Anyone else find it odd that Zeon never tries to build a large carrier ship?

They do, and it's the largest ones too, Dolos class.

[MythSearcher]

Back in World War II, which Gundam's early UC bases itself heavily upon, fleets tended to travel with dedicated auxiliary ships for handling most repair operations to carrier-borne aircraft. Crews could rig running repairs, patch bullet holes, replace engine parts, and so on but the facilities of the fleet's aircraft repair ships were needed for repairing major battle damage. It seems a safe bet that the same probably holds true in the UC, since the Mobile Suits are the war's aircraft-equivalent in space and they're even bigger and harder to maintain in the field.

With the more modular designs, MS maybe able to just change a limb if parts of it was damaged.
But yes, anything more serious likely can't be repaired on field.

[Seto Kaiba]

With the more modular designs, MS maybe able to just change a limb if parts of it was damaged.
But yes, anything more serious likely can't be repaired on field.

My understanding of Mobile Suit engineering in the UC is that they really aren't very well modularized... at least, not on a level that would ordinarily be useful for making speedy repairs cost-effective. There is the Core Block System, but throwing away 1/3 of a mobile suit isn't exactly efficient. Most warships in the UC are fairly small, and probably lack the space to carry a few dozen spare right arms or what have you.

[MythSearcher]

My understanding of Mobile Suit engineering in the UC is that they really aren't very well modularized... at least, not on a level that would ordinarily be useful for making speedy repairs cost-effective. There is the Core Block System, but throwing away 1/3 of a mobile suit isn't exactly efficient. Most warships in the UC are fairly small, and probably lack the space to carry a few dozen spare right arms or what have you.

It seems like they have depictions of them changing the limbs, at least the arms, so that part is probably modularised.
Heads can also be changed, Zeta and Zaku are canonically compatible.

[Mafty]

Maybe mobile suits have a similar base , but different equipment. It is rather odd that the new Zeta and an old Zaku could be compatible; but there have been field repairs of Gundams and GM's before, so maybe the head attachments are the same on most MS, plus the Zeta was built by Anaheim, which has hired former Zeon designers.

In a more general sense , its possible some damaged units are scrapped and used for replacement parts in battle, i.e. A damaged Zaku is used to repair less damaged Zakus, etc.

[Underrated GM Custom]

Similarly they were able to repair / jury-rig an abandoned Gelgoog on the Argama. During the Ramba Ral arc they are able to replace the Gundam's feet while the technicians chide them saying they only have so many spares. Those are purposefully built MS carriers though and plenty unique. I remember reading in a previous thread the White Base is unique in that it can either fabricate or properly modify Luna Titanium parts on board.

I would think arms and legs should be common replacements, especially if you are only fielding one or two chassis (GM or Zaku/Rick Dom). When you think about the Federations space offensive it would be a big logistic pain to have a send every maimed GM back to a Side, Luna II or somewhere else for that type of repairs. Having spares limbs in the hangar of a Columbus (or similar Federation tender), or perhaps even a Magellan would be far more effective at getting someone back into the fight.

The short animation for 0081 MS Senki as the GM Command pulls up to the Salamis we see two maimed GMs that are missing 5 out of 8 limbs. There's a Columbus resupplying them. Unfortunately, we don't get to see anything after that since they are ambushed by a trio of Bigros.

[Seto Kaiba]

It seems like they have depictions of them changing the limbs, at least the arms, so that part is probably modularised.
Heads can also be changed, Zeta and Zaku are canonically compatible.

"Compatible" is pushing it... the "Zeta Zaku" thing was a jury-rigged repair that left the MS with great big sensor blind spots because the Zaku had a monoeye on a rail and the Zeta was designed for an all-sky monitor. They were able to get partial functionality out of a salvaged Zaku II head.

[...] but there have been field repairs of Gundams and GM's before,

The most notable instances are cases where there wasn't actually much hardware difference between the GMs and Gundams in question... the Ez8 and GM Head. That's much more explicable than the "Zeta Zaku", since the GM is an economized version of the Gundam they installed the head on, meaning they should have a fair amount of hardware in common and were built to the same standards with the same tech (armor aside).

I don't recall Gundam, or at least UC Gundam, ever being depicted as having the kind of (literal) plug-and-play attitude towards repair parts that was seen in shows like Code Geass...

In a more general sense , its possible some damaged units are scrapped and used for replacement parts in battle, i.e. A damaged Zaku is used to repair less damaged Zakus, etc.

That's very likely, though you wouldn't be likely to get enough parts out of a MS that was damaged enough to be a write-off but not completely destroyed to handle any kind of serious repair elsewhere. Odds are there are simply repair ships and associated supply tenders "just offscreen".

[MythSearcher]

"Compatible" is pushing it... the "Zeta Zaku" thing was a jury-rigged repair that left the MS with great big sensor blind spots because the Zaku had a monoeye on a rail and the Zeta was designed for an all-sky monitor. They were able to get partial functionality out of a salvaged Zaku II head.

Yes, the Zeta Zaku isn't completely compatible because they are not only generations off(1st gen to 3rd gen), the Zeta's cockpit is also panoramic while the Zaku aren't, which is displaying exactly what the Zaku needed on that panoramic screen. The hardware and software compatibility is surprisingly well considering the data being sent in is still recognised as legit.

It is only patchy because the Zaku head got that two supporting poles to the head which is actually physically blocking the camera, which the Zaku likely have some software fix but other MSs won't need and won't have. So it is a hardware limitation and not a compatibility issue.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Gundam/comment ... u_head_zz/
It actually shows that particular reason in show.

Hardware wise, if some junk yard kid can "I salvaged some parts and made it work", the compatibility is almost magical.

The most notable instances are cases where there wasn't actually much hardware difference between the GMs and Gundams in question... the Ez8 and GM Head. That's much more explicable than the "Zeta Zaku", since the GM is an economized version of the Gundam they installed the head on, meaning they should have a fair amount of hardware in common and were built to the same standards with the same tech (armor aside).

I don't recall Gundam, or at least UC Gundam, ever being depicted as having the kind of (literal) plug-and-play attitude towards repair parts that was seen in shows like Code Geass...

But isn't that exactly the point here?
The Zeta Zaku is an extreme case taht's played for laughs, but most of the time you will have parts manufactured by the same manufacturer like the GM and Gundam.
MSs won't really need the compatibility at the level of Zeta Zaku in more realistic wars but If a Zaku head can fit on the Zeta, the Zaku head should be able to work on a Gouf. Maybe not exactly on the Dom because of the cross rail design but since the Prototype Dom used a Gouf body, it still likely takes the same electronic signals.

That's very likely, though you wouldn't be likely to get enough parts out of a MS that was damaged enough to be a write-off but not completely destroyed to handle any kind of serious repair elsewhere. Odds are there are simply repair ships and associated supply tenders "just offscreen".

FG very early showed exactly supply ships just offscreen.
When Char needed to replace the 2 destroyed Zakus Dolze sent Gadem with a Papua and 2 Zakus.


That being said, the book 機動戦士ガンダム研究叢書 宇宙世紀の政治経済学 (ISBN 4796648224) claims GMs are essentially M4s that they are not completely compatible to every one of themselves.
The MSs are manufactured in 6 different locations and each location has their own standards, making them incompatible to a certain degree to each other. But EFF sends parts manufactured in the same location to the same combat zone with the GMs manufactured there to make sure the parts are compatible. Zeon also likely have similar issues considering even the Zaku has many different cockpit versions.
The problem was only fixed after OYW with the standardisation of RGM-79C amongst the GMs and likely the Unification Plan on the Zeon side late OYW.

[Mafty]

Interesting that the GM's have differences in mechanical designs across even one type of unit. Given the later series wide range of GM variant's(the Cold Districts Type, Command and Command Space, Sniper , GM Ground Type, Sniper II, Type C, Core Block System GM, and GM Cannon amongst others), you can only imagine just how many mechanical differences those end up having(which is probably why we never see a mix of the different GM variants together), this would also of course apply to the Zeon unit's as well.

On a similar note I wonder if the reason we see repairs more so in sequel series, is because FG generally didn't leave that many Mass Produced units intact at the end of a battle.

[Seto Kaiba]

Yes, the Zeta Zaku isn't completely compatible because they are not only generations off(1st gen to 3rd gen), the Zeta's cockpit is also panoramic while the Zaku aren't, which is displaying exactly what the Zaku needed on that panoramic screen. The hardware and software compatibility is surprisingly well considering the data being sent in is still recognised as legit.

We don't actually know that the Zaku II head was compatible with the Zeta's onboard hardware and software. We're not shown the modification work in progress needed to make them work together, just the end result that performed so poorly even total amateurs like Beecha Oleg thought the fix was a poor one. It's described as a stopgap measure at best and it's explicitly noted that the cockpit monitors don't function properly. That's not much of an indication of compatibility, but it is a fair argument for an ad hoc repair that required a lot of tweaking, adjustment, and adapting for functionality to be achieved.

It is only patchy because the Zaku head got that two supporting poles to the head which is actually physically blocking the camera,

That's not the part I meant, but I guess that's relevant too... I was referring to the fact that the Zaku head lacks the sensors to support imaging from angles other than the monoeye, so there's a good 200 degrees of arc on the monitor in the Zeta's cockpit that are just plain non-functional when the Zaku head is fitted. That it also can't seem to adjust for the presence of the structural members holding up the Zaku's visor argues for it being only functional in the bare minimum sense.

Hardware wise, if some junk yard kid can "I salvaged some parts and made it work", the compatibility is almost magical.

That's going a bit far too... the Zeta is a product of a post-Zeonic Anaheim, after all, and we know that Anaheim incorporated the best aspects of the Principality's development into its own future work. Not to mention the Argama was carrying a qualified engineering team trained on Anaheim's tech. It's no more magical than any auto industry mule slapped together out of whatever parts were on hand and made to work with some interface gateways to make different architectures play nicely together.

But isn't that exactly the point here?
The Zeta Zaku is an extreme case taht's played for laughs, but most of the time you will have parts manufactured by the same manufacturer like the GM and Gundam.

On the Federation side, anyway... Zeon can't make the same boast, because one of their biggest logistical issues was that Zeonic and Zimmad were not working with much in the way of standardized parts so the logistics of mobile suit repair were even more fraught.

MSs won't really need the compatibility at the level of Zeta Zaku in more realistic wars but If a Zaku head can fit on the Zeta, the Zaku head should be able to work on a Gouf. Maybe not exactly on the Dom because of the cross rail design but since the Prototype Dom used a Gouf body, it still likely takes the same electronic signals.

For a given value of "work".

I have a fair amount of practical experience with graft repairs like that on vehicles, and that kind of thing is NEVER pretty under the hood. It's not as simple as "plug and play", even if the databus standards are the same there are still differences in how newer models of hardware communicate on that bus and hardware that one machine supports but the other doesn't, etc. To make something like that work requires a LOT of adjustment. We're talking adapter harnesses to connect the disparate parts together in ways that allow them to transfer power and data, gateways to translate one side's communications into something the other side can understand, gaps in feature support where one controller lacks the ability to drive certain hardware on the other side, the need to turn off various diagnostics to avoid setting fault codes against parts that aren't present or communicate differently, and of course an increase in latency because of those adjustments.

We're not talking compatible, we're talking a couple hardware gateways, a bunch of handmade wire harnesses, and enough electrical tape to carpet Brazil, just to get to "it works, kind of, but don't breathe too heavily around it".

[Seto Kaiba]

On a similar note I wonder if the reason we see repairs more so in sequel series, is because FG generally didn't leave that many Mass Produced units intact at the end of a battle.

I think that probably just has more to do with the sequel series giving the Zeon side of things more screen time and actual characters to develop. FG didn't exactly keep enemy MS pilots around for very long, Char excluded, so nobody really had a chance to have an arc. FG also mainly had the EFSF using beam weapons, which tend to cause Zeon mobile suits to blow up without leaving any significant debris behind.

It's more a thing from OVAs, where the bigger animation budget means drawing badly damaged but not destroyed Mobile Suits is more containable. Those pretty pink explosions that seemingly leave no debris are a lot cheaper to draw.

[Underrated GM Custom]

That being said, the book 機動戦士ガンダム研究叢書 宇宙世紀の政治経済学 (ISBN 4796648224) claims GMs are essentially M4s that they are not completely compatible to every one of themselves.
The MSs are manufactured in 6 different locations and each location has their own standards, making them incompatible to a certain degree to each other. But EFF sends parts manufactured in the same location to the same combat zone with the GMs manufactured there to make sure the parts are compatible. Zeon also likely have similar issues considering even the Zaku has many different cockpit versions.
The problem was only fixed after OYW with the standardisation of RGM-79C amongst the GMs and likely the Unification Plan on the Zeon side late OYW.

That's interesting because there has to be some degree of interoperability in parts for Zeon remnants to make any sense. Setting aside MSVR-ROJR mentioning that AE is giving supplies to remnants to keep conflicts (and thus cash flow) going, if we look at the early period before Anaheim became a major player Zeon would perform raids on Federation bases for MS parts such as in the Blue Destiny, and we see a similar situation in later years with 0081 and Gundam Legacy. If they're raiding federation bases for parts then at some level there are components they can use that will function in their machines, certainly not the part itself, but at least some of the components inside of it. (Although IIRC, they did slap a Gouf arm on a GM in one of the side stories)

Obviously a lot of things don't work together, early Federation and Zeon using field motors and fluid pulse respectively, but there is some degree of some parts/components being usable in all machines (cables, capacitors, fluids, etc). I think all the kit manuals mentioning the degrees of incompatibility are taking from a broad logistical sense, where not having the simplicity of interchangeable parts ala UMP, has a large scale effect from a strategic perspective not just from fabrication but also for field assembly (and repairs). But when you look at the unit of action in the field if they can scavenge parts they can make something work. It may not be pretty, and it may ruin the technicians day (or week for remnants) but they can make something work.

Of course, if you take it to the extreme end you can even get the Frankenstein monster from 0083 Rebellion with the Adzam-Aspalus-Zaku I hybrid hahaha https://mahq.net/mecha/gundam/0083-rebe ... repair.htm

[Mafty]

Could it be possible that post OYW the mech designs get more unified? There are unified plans for both the Federation and Zeon, also we rarely see OYW tech used in later conflicts involving older machines (for example during the "Walking War Museum" battle at Torrington, we mostly see units from the Second and Third Neo Zeon War's, rather than from the OYW).

Another thing about the unified plans. Following the OYW all MS have the same Panoramic Monitor Linear Cockpit design, so would that mean that all MS cockpits are the same? Also since the cockpit pod can eject, would that mean it could be inserted into a new unit?