Repair Capabilities onboard a Musai or Chivvay

[John-Luck Pickerd]

Could it be possible that post OYW the mech designs get more unified? There are unified plans for both the Federation and Zeon, also we rarely see OYW tech used in later conflicts involving older machines (for example during the "Walking War Museum" battle at Torrington, we mostly see units from the Second and Third Neo Zeon War's, rather than from the OYW).

Another thing about the unified plans. Following the OYW all MS have the same Panoramic Monitor Linear Cockpit design, so would that mean that all MS cockpits are the same? Also since the cockpit pod can eject, would that mean it could be inserted into a new unit?

Well yeah, after OYW, much of the mobile suit development/manufactoring were done by Anaheim.

[Seto Kaiba]

That's interesting because there has to be some degree of interoperability in parts for Zeon remnants to make any sense.

Past a certain point, the interoperability issue should have been mostly resolved because Anaheim Electronics absorbed the Principality's Mobile Suit manufacturers at the end of the war and subsequent designs were either a fusion of the two schools of design (e.g. the HiZack) or Anaheim's design work hidden under a superficial Zeon exterior aesthetic (e.g. the Gerbera Tetra, Sinanju).

Setting aside MSVR-ROJR mentioning that AE is giving supplies to remnants to keep conflicts (and thus cash flow) going, if we look at the early period before Anaheim became a major player Zeon would perform raids on Federation bases for MS parts such as in the Blue Destiny, and we see a similar situation in later years with 0081 and Gundam Legacy. If they're raiding federation bases for parts then at some level there are components they can use that will function in their machines, certainly not the part itself, but at least some of the components inside of it. (Although IIRC, they did slap a Gouf arm on a GM in one of the side stories)

Again, for a given value of "function". The Zeonic remnants were desperate and jerry-rigged repairs are better than no repairs at all. If keeping one of their near-irreplaceable MS's running means sacrificing a little bit of performance or reliability here and there to improvised repairs and incompatible parts kept running through gateways, adapter harnesses, and the like, it's a safe bet they were probably A-OK with it.

Obviously a lot of things don't work together, early Federation and Zeon using field motors and fluid pulse respectively, but there is some degree of some parts/components being usable in all machines (cables, capacitors, fluids, etc).

Probably not even "all" machines, more like specific subsets of machines. There are likely different formulations of coolants, lubricants, etc. used for different models that would be problematic in other models. Lubricants suitable for desert operation likely wouldn't hold up well in frozen tundra, and vice versa, for instance. Even today, for things as comparatively simple as cars, there is no universal oil that works on EVERYTHING. Even something as simple as data cables are not necessarily universal. Wire harnesses used in the auto industry change all the freaking time, and even among single manufacturers there are often differences in pinout between different brands of vehicle or different vehicles in the same brand. (Or, hell, even on THE SAME VEHICLE for two different buses.)

That there is a certain point where parts are widely compatible between designs is a common managerial fallacy in engineering. It's one that causes all kinds of havoc at my day job when program planning assumes that a part from one car will just "drop right in" to another new model without issue. I could count on one hand the number of times they've actually been right in nearly a decade now.

I think all the kit manuals mentioning the degrees of incompatibility are taking from a broad logistical sense, where not having the simplicity of interchangeable parts ala UMP, has a large scale effect from a strategic perspective not just from fabrication but also for field assembly (and repairs). But when you look at the unit of action in the field if they can scavenge parts they can make something work. It may not be pretty, and it may ruin the technicians day (or week for remnants) but they can make something work.

As an engineer, I think the plausible level of incompatibility is much closer to home than that.

It's one thing to retool machine parts to fit, but Mobile Suits are full of computer-controlled hardware and that means gateways, adapter harnesses, connector adaptors, compact power supply adapters to step voltages up or down to where they need to be, software patches, diagnostic calibration changes, and miles and miles of new wiring, electrical tape, and duct tape... not to mention a fair amount of good old fashioned "guess and check" assuming you don't have the accompanying documentation to know the actual mechanical tolerances, requirements, and performance of the parts you want to adapt.

To adapt something from one manufacturer to another isn't going to ruin the technician's day even in good conditions... we're talking days for even the simple purely mechanical stuff, and weeks or even months, to come up with a working solution for more complex substitutions.

(This is, of course, why G-Reco lampshades the hell out of it by having everything built to a Universal Standard that evolved somewhere after the UC stories, so that there is actual interoperability of parts.)

[Underrated GM Custom]

Agreed on all points, thanks for sharing your experience in the automotive industry.

I was merely pointing out that there is some level of interoperability in some components, in the same way a modern Ticonderoga cruiser can use some parts from a Arleigh Burke Destroyer in a pinch a GM Command will be able to use some parts from a standard GM. It's not as convenient or universal as simply swapping an arm or leg out but there is some level of compatibility that improves over time, starting with the early strokes of the UMP all the way till we get to G-Reco's universal standard.

Oh I remembered where the franken-GM Gouf came from, it's from the After Jaburo manga: https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/gunda ... uro_14.jpg

[Mafty]

For some of the later conflicts (ie Crossboone and Zanscare), is there any line art of possible MS repair ships? It seems like the Motorad fleet could probably have repair facilities , plus there's the Amelia Colony and several Lunar and Terrestrial bases capture, but there would still need to be repairs in deep space and on earth. Most of the Zanscare Ships seem too small to be capable of this, or maybe the Keilas Guilie has repair facilities. As for the Crossbone Vanguard; most of their ships are similarly small, and it is never stated where their home base (ie Zeon had Side 3, Axis, and numerous asteroid bases, Zanscare had side 2, Mafty had a hidden South Pacfic Base, etc) is located.

[MythSearcher]

For a given value of "work".

I have a fair amount of practical experience with graft repairs like that on vehicles, and that kind of thing is NEVER pretty under the hood. It's not as simple as "plug and play", even if the databus standards are the same there are still differences in how newer models of hardware communicate on that bus and hardware that one machine supports but the other doesn't, etc. To make something like that work requires a LOT of adjustment. We're talking adapter harnesses to connect the disparate parts together in ways that allow them to transfer power and data, gateways to translate one side's communications into something the other side can understand, gaps in feature support where one controller lacks the ability to drive certain hardware on the other side, the need to turn off various diagnostics to avoid setting fault codes against parts that aren't present or communicate differently, and of course an increase in latency because of those adjustments.

We're not talking compatible, we're talking a couple hardware gateways, a bunch of handmade wire harnesses, and enough electrical tape to carpet Brazil, just to get to "it works, kind of, but don't breathe too heavily around it".

Which I doubt is much different from what you are talking about.

Just like how the above mention of the GM, the Zaku aren't better and we know they don't even have a standard cockpit. They likely won't fit together if they ever got two different factories' manufactured parts onboard. A Zaku manufactured by Zeonic likely can't really be repaired by Zimmad's parts directly, but yes, they likely will still "work" or at least have to make to work.
Zeon is basically WWII Japan, their Zeroes are manufactured by many locations and put together by secondary school girls, their mechanics on CVs likely faced similar problems, but in a war you have to make it work somehow.
And they likely did made it work, just like the WWII Japan mechanics, and likely American ones with the M4.

Consider how they depict stuff in Developers, yeah, each of the MS likely have their own custom adjustments and you need to put in work and not plug and play, but that's basically how stuff will be when things are put together haphazardly.
Considering how the GM A types are so unstable in Igloo, probably those are not plug and play as well and likely only fixed in the B types. God knows how many parts they have to scrap to standardise to the C type after the war.

That's interesting because there has to be some degree of interoperability in parts for Zeon remnants to make any sense. Setting aside MSVR-ROJR mentioning that AE is giving supplies to remnants to keep conflicts (and thus cash flow) going, if we look at the early period before Anaheim became a major player Zeon would perform raids on Federation bases for MS parts such as in the Blue Destiny, and we see a similar situation in later years with 0081 and Gundam Legacy. If they're raiding federation bases for parts then at some level there are components they can use that will function in their machines, certainly not the part itself, but at least some of the components inside of it. (Although IIRC, they did slap a Gouf arm on a GM in one of the side stories)

Obviously a lot of things don't work together, early Federation and Zeon using field motors and fluid pulse respectively, but there is some degree of some parts/components being usable in all machines (cables, capacitors, fluids, etc). I think all the kit manuals mentioning the degrees of incompatibility are taking from a broad logistical sense, where not having the simplicity of interchangeable parts ala UMP, has a large scale effect from a strategic perspective not just from fabrication but also for field assembly (and repairs). But when you look at the unit of action in the field if they can scavenge parts they can make something work. It may not be pretty, and it may ruin the technicians day (or week for remnants) but they can make something work.

Of course, if you take it to the extreme end you can even get the Frankenstein monster from 0083 Rebellion with the Adzam-Aspalus-Zaku I hybrid hahaha :lol: https://mahq.net/mecha/gundam/0083-rebe ... repair.htm

On top of what Seto said, notice EFF confiscated a lot of Zeon MS and manufacture plants, and they actually fielded Zeon MS(and painted them to EFF colours).
So raiding EFF bases to take those parts can help them more with their own MS.

Also, AE is very likely in the scene pretty early on, I won't be surprised if they actually provided repair services to the remnants free of charge to keep them running if they really lacked too much parts.
Considering they basically have almost all the technical data on both sides of the conflict during OYW sans maybe some really remote stuff on Zeon's side like NT tech and Axis researches, they can manufacture anything at a higher price if you don't need a lot of it at really high precision. If you have the manufacture location record of your machine, they likely can even adjust the parts to that specific location's manufacturing specs.
Especially when those are UMP units or EFF units, meaning they have better standards or upgraded standardisation parts.

The UMP and after war standardisation for the GM C type meaning they will need all of the data to accommodate difference in manufacture location specs and produce parts to standardise them.

[Underrated GM Custom]

That's a good point, I'm sure AE would be happy to small batch manufacture parts at an extreme premium price tag. And with their various divisions being compartmentalized I could easily see them creating some parts under the guise of prototyping then conveniently after testing the disposed of parts are picked up by an old friend from the war.

As another example of part swapping, in the recent Blue Destiny manga remake, the Efreet Custom destroys an allied Gouf for parts to repair its leg, earlier the Dom team raids the base for various other parts and I presume POL.

[Seto Kaiba]

Zeon is basically WWII Japan, their Zeroes are manufactured by many locations and put together by secondary school girls, their mechanics on CVs likely faced similar problems, but in a war you have to make it work somehow.
And they likely did made it work, just like the WWII Japan mechanics, and likely American ones with the M4.

More like World War II Germany, given their problem was in large measure caused by the Principality of Zeon behaving EXACTLY like Nazi Germany in its relentless and pointless insistence on forcing its own government bureaus and domestic arms manufacturers to compete against each other. The ensuing dustup led to them doing at least as much sabotaging of, and spying on, each other as they did building arms to use against the Principality's enemies (e.g. Zeonic leaking info on the Zudah to the Federation to undermine Zimmad's next main MS bid in MS IGLOO) and a lot of the military brass wasting time, money, and manpower on their own pet project MS and MA designs that were either ineffective or not cost-effective like M'Quve's Gyan or Sahalin's Apsalas.

Even after standardization efforts were made by both sides, I'd wager the Federation and Principality's ground crews spent a LOT of time cursing the manufacturers for introducing so many minor variations with their own unique parts, software, etc.

Consider how they depict stuff in Developers, yeah, each of the MS likely have their own custom adjustments and you need to put in work and not plug and play, but that's basically how stuff will be when things are put together haphazardly.

In all fairness, the issues shown in Developers are pretty typical for prototyping... but cals and tuning for mass production machines ought to be standardized. Some machines may develop wear-and-tear-based eccentricies down the road, but Zeon's hardware hardly lasted long enough for that to happen and the appropriate response to that is to replace parts until you get back within the tolerances of the stock cals.

The ace custom machines are a bigger problem, since those explicitly have different performance tunings than regular MS's and therefore don't just require special attention in terms of repair and replacement but also higher wear rates on parts. Zeon's propagandists loved Char, but I'd wager that the ground crews LOATHED him for all the extra work he made for them.

[MythSearcher]

That's a good point, I'm sure AE would be happy to small batch manufacture parts at an extreme premium price tag. And with their various divisions being compartmentalized I could easily see them creating some parts under the guise of prototyping then conveniently after testing the disposed of parts are picked up by an old friend from the war.

As another example of part swapping, in the recent Blue Destiny manga remake, the Efreet Custom destroys an allied Gouf for parts to repair its leg, earlier the Dom team raids the base for various other parts and I presume POL.

Actually, not even at a premium price tag.
Consider these will mostly be supplied to remnants to keep them running so EFF will continue to buy from them, these will just be at like regular prices, for free, or paid by some EF faction for their own agendas. At a minimal number, of course.

Small batch customly made production is much harder to trace. And come to think of it, I guess EFF also need some Zeon parts produced to maintain their own captured units for at least a few years.

More like World War II Germany, given their problem was in large measure caused by the Principality of Zeon behaving EXACTLY like Nazi Germany in its relentless and pointless insistence on forcing its own government bureaus and domestic arms manufacturers to compete against each other.

The Nazi Germany resemblance was kinda superficial in FG. The politics are also only superficially Nazi, and resembles more Japanese if you dig peeper.
And the manufacturing is more like Japan, but yes, the competition is surely Nazi Germany.

Even after standardization efforts were made by both sides, I'd wager the Federation and Principality's ground crews spent a LOT of time cursing the manufacturers for introducing so many minor variations with their own unique parts, software, etc.

Yes, but at least it will be better and with a standard instead of each company having their own and I bet some of them still use imperial units.

In all fairness, the issues shown in Developers are pretty typical for prototyping... but cals and tuning for mass production machines ought to be standardized. Some machines may develop wear-and-tear-based eccentricies down the road, but Zeon's hardware hardly lasted long enough for that to happen and the appropriate response to that is to replace parts until you get back within the tolerances of the stock cals.

The end of the story when Zeonic sends in people to learn from Hoshino, that geezer making Fermtometre adjustments by hand and others make it sound like they have a lot to customise.

The ace custom machines are a bigger problem, since those explicitly have different performance tunings than regular MS's and therefore don't just require special attention in terms of repair and replacement but also higher wear rates on parts. Zeon's propagandists loved Char, but I'd wager that the ground crews LOATHED him for all the extra work he made for them.

That's why THAT mechanic wants to have Char sortie on the Zeong without legs and mocking him that the higher-ups won't understand. With Char being THE higher-up.