What changes would you make to certain Gundam series?

[DarthYAM]

Asking out of curiosity

As for me

00
Season 1

1.) In canon we never find out QUITE how Setsuna found Celestial Being, so taking an idea from AwarenessBringer I'm going to have a scene where the 0 Gundam descends, and we see Ribbons gesture little Setsuna aboard the Gundam. This is the only interaction the two have until Season 2.

2.) Setsuna, while still fairly stoic, is also shown to be very committed to Celestial Being's ideas (when they recruited him they also informed him about how Ali was really just a bloodthirsty lunatic who exploited the kids for fun). His relationship with Saji is also a bit different; he thinks Saji's a bit naive but kinda likes him (which makes him even more angry when Nena attacks the wedding in Spain).

3.) Some of the armed interventions are changed up (since Ireland and Sri Lanka became dated QUITE quickly). One of them is a Rwanda style genocide that the big power blocks are reluctant to get involved in; this gives Celestial Being good pr, since their intervention ultimately stopped the slaughter (the leader decided to call it off when the gundams showed up and directly threatened him.)

4.) Setsuna has more of a relationship with Graham. During the Azadistan arc Ali (in an attempt to fan the flames) releases a video saying that Rachmadi will be executed at sundown, all to trigger the bloodbath he so wants. When Setsuna and Graham meet during Setsuna's investigation, Graham like in canon realizes that Setsuna is the Exia's pilot but instead proposes a truce, realizing that they both want to stop the bloodshed. This leads to them both going together to Ali's hideout, and Graham actually hears their back and forth over the radio while he's fighting some of Ali's men (who also have mechs), thus putting the pieces together regarding Setsuna's backstory; he also learns Setsuna's true name from either Setsuna shouting it in anger or Ali remembering it. Setsuna beats Ali decisively, but Graham persuades Setsuna to let him take Ali into custody in exchange for letting CB save Rachmadi (he also gives Setsuna his word that Ali will face justice for his crimes).

Meanwhile Hong Long infiltrates the base overpowering the guards and saving Rachmadi

5.) When we get the Tamalakan desert it's GRAHAM Setsuna ends up fighting rather than Ali. Graham has by now been doing his own investigation, and has managed to work out the details of Setsuna's past (that Ali used him as a child soldier, and that Celestial Being saved him when Ali abandoned him). This leads to a more philosophical discussion wherein Graham points out a lot of the flaws in Celestial Being's philosophy (that you can't force people to stop fighting because humans will always find something to disagree about), while also reaching out to Setsuna and expressing sympathy. This throws Setsuna off and allows Graham to overpower him, but Nena steps in and saves him.

6.) The Trinity's do their thing, but Setsuna is even more furious when he learns that the Halevy's were attacked and seeks them out with even more anger. This leads to the confrontation with Neil on the Island; Neil is somewhat grateful to learn that Ali is in custody (though we also get a scene of the Innovators arranging Ali's release, over Graham's furious objections.)

7.) To more easily explain how Setsuna survived Graham lets him escape at the end, having realized that things are about to get MUCH darker.

Notes: It should also be noted that the Marie Soma thing is built up earlier; Soma has brief flashes of life in the Institute, and these increase in Season 2 after she meets Allelujah again.



Season 2 I'd have done the following

1.) Season 2 largely starts out the same, with Setsuna meeting Saji again and Saji getting shanghaied into everything. Marie's memories return more gradually though, thus making it more believable when she goes over to Celestial Being. The heroes are also more explicit in the "we fucked up and broke the world, it's our duty to make things right motivation. Marina…..remains pacifistic but also begins to understand that sometimes you need to stand and fight for what you believe in.

2.) Lyle EXISTS but is done differently (he's younger, looks different, and more focus is placed on him trying to emerge from Neil's shadow).

3.) Graham is also captured in the aftermath of Exia's return (since he falsely reported Exia destroyed, the fact Exia's alive means that he lied). He escapes, going over to Katharon as a military advisor.

4.) In the aftermath of the Momento Mori fight, Saji is with Setsuna; when he asks Nena about the wedding in Spain Nena casually confirms it and makes a comment justifying her action; Saji is angered and actually ends up shooting at her, yelling at her about how she ruined Louise's life, and even telling her that her brothers death was karmic justice. This angers Nena enough that she leaves without telling them about Anew).

5.) Saji is with Setsuna when he and Ribbons meet; Ali also recognizes Saji’s last name and makes a sadistic comment about how Kinue begged for her life (it’s along the lines of “ah yes that reporter I killed 4 years ago. She did mention having a kid brother while she was begging for her life”.) Setsuna’s failure to kill Ali is due instead to his shoulder injury rather than Marina's singing.

6.) When Saji and Louise meet in Episode 19, Saji uses their link to allow her to see his memories (first the one where Setsuna saved him) allowing Louise to not only see Saji’s shanghaiing, but also the massacre that he witnessed the A Laws carry out, as well as the meeting with Nena, then the meeting with Ribbons and the Momento Mori firing on the Elevator). Louise is left deeply shaken by the memories (especially the Ribbons one where Ali casually admits to murdering Kinue, as well as the Momento Mori firing on the Elevator) but Andrei’s interference keeps them from leaving with her. It does however leave her badly shaken and starting to distrust Ribbons.

7.) Still badly shaken from this, Louise confronts Ribbons directly (and Ribbon's surprise at seeing Saji mentioned unwittingly confirms the accusations). Louise is appropriately horrified to realize what's going on and angrily says she's removing funding.....causing Ribbons to go "screw this" and use his powers to forcibly break her to his will.

8.) Anew I'm thinking lives. Her death is kinda a big "stuffed in the fridge" moment and it would be nice to see them have a happy ending.

9.) The Katharon and Fed forces directly accompany Celestial Being to Veda, where some of the other A Laws fleet is still stationed.

10.) During the final battle Setsuna and Saji (having realized that Ribbons is controlling Louise) land in Veda, and Setsuna uses the link Ribbons has to launch a psychic attack on Ribbons, disrupting him long enough for Tieria to seize control of Veda and boot Ribbons out. This allows Tieria to reverse the flow of the battle and even the odds, and further saves Anew (who Ribbons was ALSO trying to control again).

11.) Reborns and 00 have a single final battle, culminating in them crashing on the moon and them charging at each other. Ribbon's defeat is what puts the final nail in the coffin of the A Laws forces and prompts them to surrender.

Gundam Seed

1.) I'd age Kira and the others up by about a year. It keeps them from being too old while not being quite as ridiculous. Plus it makes the Kira Flay sex thing a little less odd.
2.) More ships join the three ships alliance; some of the EA ships who survive JOSH-A due to Kira's warning sign on out of anger at being left to die by their superiors; other ZAFT ships meanwhile are uneasy about the whole "genocidal" thing Patrick's advocating. This gives them more firepower come the final battle.
3.) We also see more unease amongst other members of the EA and ZAFT; for instance people who cheer at Ptolemaeus being attacked balk at actually turning the weapon on Earth (Because the moonrise is a legit target).
4.) Kira's hinted at having newtype powers earlier (he senses Rau's approach in canon and hears Flay call out to him in canon, so I think other bits of foreshadowing could have potentially been done earlier). It may even play a role in why he survived episode 30.
5.) Flay lives; I liked Flay's evolution from a selfish nut job into a more compassionate figure and would have liked to see her have to actually live and atone for what she did. Dying is an easy way out; atoning is hard. Flay and Kira would make peace with each other but also realize that things have been too tainted to have a meaningful romance. Plus it avoids the irritating trend of "stuffed in the fridge
6.) Make Kira's philosophy clearer; in the actual anime he says he's willing to kill to keep the NJammer Canceller tech out of the wrong hands, so he's not adverse to killing. It's more that he only does it if there's no other option left; he was willing to kill Rau because in addition to his power he was also willing to burn humanity out of hatred. Even leaving aside Flay's death, Rau was a monster who needed to be put down for the greater good. Making that more explicit would definitely help things.

Gundam ZZ

1.) Get rid of the overly comedic first half or at least tone it down.
2.) I actually really like Judau as a nice kid, since he's a foil to Haman and leads to an interesting dynamic (she's used to everyone being cynical and cruel so meeting someone genuinely compassionate is a genuine surprise for her. This plays a role in her curiosity towards him, alongside him reminding her of her younger self.)
3.) I'd tone down some of the death from Zeta; Emma Sheen survives and acts as a mentor figure for the newer pilots
4.) Beecha and Oleg are less treacherous and evil; they're not happy about the whole mess but they do care about their friend.
5.) Mashmyre I'd play up the tragedy of his character; he's the kind of guy who thinks he's a knight in a medieval tale, when really he's the villain in a Mech show. This causes him to do things like fair play which the more pragmatic heroes exploit (kinda like Carta Issue), and he goes off the deep end after Dublin. Playing up the tragedy would probably win him a lot more fans.
6.) Puru 2 survives the end of the show, and becomes Amuro's protege (this is borrowed from a fan idea online that I found really cool.)

[Seto Kaiba]

... so, an itemized list of reasons to be grateful Sunrise hires professional writers and not fans?

With not one single iota of seriousness, I would change only three things:
1. Every single character makes the "Excalibur face" whenever Saji is in the scene with them or mentioned in conversation in 00.
2. Replace the explanation of the Sanc Kingdom's history in Wing with the Swamp Castle bit from Monty Python's Holy Grail. It's called the "Sank" kingdom because it sank in the swamp.
3. To better suit his particularly embarrassing sobriquet, Full Frontal spends the entirety of Gundam UC wearing only his mask and a Char Custom red banana hammock with gold trim. Everyone notices but steadfastly refuses to acknowledge his bizarre sartorial decision.

[DarthYAM]

How are the points actually BAD?

[Seto Kaiba]

How are the points actually BAD?

Do you want an itemized list, or...

Put simply, a lot of it is simply unnecessary. For instance, we don't need to know the exact circumstances of how Sorun Ibrahim became a member of Celestial Being. It doesn't matter to the story. What DOES matter is that Ribbons saw the reverence he viewed the Gundam with and handpickd him to become a future member of Celestial Being. A lot of the rest is pure character derailment, like having Setsuna/Sorun be kind to Saji and be invested in him personally... when Setsuna's main character trait is his insane commitment to Celestial Being's cause no matter the cost.

[DarthYAM]

I'll give you some of them but some of the things I suggested I don't think were that bad. Putting in a single scene where Ribbons (who the audience doesn't know yet) gestures him aboard isn't that big of a deal.

1.) With Lyle there's a movie called Beerfest when a character dies halfway through the movie, but then his identical twin brother played by the same actor with the same nickname ends up replacing him and it's like the original guy never even died. I like Lyle but his introduction did kinda feel like that, and unlike Beerfest where it was played for laughs it was played more seriously in the show. Kinda like how in Spectre you find out Bond and Blofeld were stepbrothers.....something Austin Powers already did.

Again I LIKE Lyle but it's not good when you're reminded of a spoof in a comedy.

2.) I wasn't impressed by the scene in season 2 19 where Saji tries to persuade her; he just says "you're a nice person" over and over again. I thought something like her actually seeing Saji's memories while they're in that mind link would be much more persuasive (and since Louise kinda liked Kinue her finding out that her benefactor helped have her murder would also shake her). It also makes Louise a bit more sympathetic, since in the show she DOES do a lot of bad things.

3.) While I wasn't PERSONALLY bothered by the pulse Setsuna does in Beyond, I understand that a lot of people were so I thought that something like Setsuna piggybacking the link Ribbons is using to brainwash Louise and using that to attack him would be easier for people to swallow as long as Setsuna is developing his powers.

4.) I was always bothered by how poorly explained Setsuna's survival after the fight at the end of season 1 was. If he and Graham had a bit of an understanding it makes it a bit easier to explain (since Graham lets him go). It also gives Celestial Being a chance to be called out on their philosophy earlier in Season 1 if Graham and Setsuna reached more of an understanding in Azadistan and THAN Graham fights him in episode 15; Graham can express sympathy for WHY he fell in with Celestial Being but can also point out the shortcomings of their philosophy

5.) Anew, her death kinda felt like being stuffed in the Fridge, in that she dies largely to cause Lockon grief (and to show that Ribbons is an asshole, which we already know.) Same thing with Flay. It's like they don't know how to resolve things so they just kill off the character

6.) In the earlier episodes they intervene in Sri Lanka. Given that the REAL conflict was resolved two years later it also made it a bit of an unintended period piece. I also wanted to show that Celestial Being had reasons for support; them intervening in a genocide that the other blocks weren't doing anything about could be a good pr move for them and also allow them a chance to at least try to defend their stance.

[ShadowCell]

3. To better suit his particularly embarrassing sobriquet, Full Frontal spends the entirety of Gundam UC wearing only his mask and a Char Custom red banana hammock with gold trim. Everyone notices but steadfastly refuses to acknowledge his bizarre sartorial decision.

there is, however, a gratuitous reference to how the red one makes people three times as uncomfortable or something

[MythSearcher]

3. To better suit his particularly embarrassing sobriquet, Full Frontal spends the entirety of Gundam UC wearing only his mask and a Char Custom red banana hammock with gold trim. Everyone notices but steadfastly refuses to acknowledge his bizarre sartorial decision.

there is, however, a gratuitous reference to how the red one makes people three times as uncomfortable or something

Run from him 3 times faster than they usually can run.

[Seto Kaiba]

3. To better suit his particularly embarrassing sobriquet, Full Frontal spends the entirety of Gundam UC wearing only his mask and a Char Custom red banana hammock with gold trim. Everyone notices but steadfastly refuses to acknowledge his bizarre sartorial decision.

there is, however, a gratuitous reference to how the red one makes people three times as uncomfortable or something

Run from him 3 times faster than they usually can run.

They're all too afraid to ask where the horn is.

[Kuruni]

The one that really bug me in serious way.

In GBD: instead of massive enetgy blade, Riku's special move should be based on how the series built him so far, a kid with mad reflex. Judge from his appearance in GBD-R, I think the staff aware that it was mistake.

6.) In the earlier episodes they intervene in Sri Lanka. Given that the REAL conflict was resolved two years later it also made it a bit of an unintended period piece.

So you call the storywriter's lack of clairvoyant ability a mistake... Now I do agree that the Sri Lankans' current economic crisis is far more interesting topic (the fact that it cause the Rajapaksa family's fall from national heroes status alone is amusing enough), but I doubt it would make a good episode for giant mecha sci-fi.

[John-Luck Pickerd]

Doesnt the operators and one of Patrick's own staff become very hesitant when Patrick Zala ordered the Genesis to fire on Earth? And the staffer even tried to stop Patrick before being shot(and shot back). Even though they are more than ok with firing the weapon at the incoming Alliance fleet and Ptolemaios base.

As for Kira's philosophy... We have already seen Kira kill people after he got the Freedom, we have heard him being explicit that he will take lives and fight if needed. Like him or hate him, I think its always been clear what his limits are.

[DarthYAM]

A lot of people tend to interpret it as “never kill ever” and look down on him disabling enemies for that reason. Never underestimate that many viewers can and often do miss things, especially when they’re inclined to dislike a character.

[John-Luck Pickerd]

A lot of people tend to interpret it as “never kill ever” and look down on him disabling enemies for that reason. Never underestimate that many viewers can and often do miss things, especially when they’re inclined to dislike a character.

I mean, the shows already made it pretty clear that ita not the case, we have seen Kira kill or destroy enemy ship/fotress/targets multiple times after he got the Freedom and in Destinty. If people still cant or dont want to pick up on that, there isnt much more one can do other than having Fukuda himself appearing onscreen and do like Count von Count, counting each time Kira killed someone.

[MythSearcher]

I mean, the shows already made it pretty clear that ita not the case, we have seen Kira kill or destroy enemy ship/fotress/targets multiple times after he got the Freedom and in Destinty. If people still cant or dont want to pick up on that, there isnt much more one can do other than having Fukuda himself appearing onscreen and do like Count von Count, counting each time Kira killed someone.

Isn't that the reason people mock him for it?
When it comes to MS he showed how skillful he is by just cutting off the limbs, but when it comes to ships that carries hundreds if not thousands of people he doesn't just cut off the turrets but sink the whole thing.

[Mafty]

Admittedly it would be harder to disable a ship, than it would a MS. Though cutting off all the turrets could actually work. That being said, Kira doesn't seem to destroy that many ships(though admittedly It's been a while since I watched the series in depth). As an aside I thought they did a better job with Loran and the technical pacifist thing in Turn A Gundam (Loran only kills about 2 people in the series, and it may be only one due to the Zssan having drone machines).

Interestingly Victory Gundam goes more in depth on disabling a ship, with the battles with the Motorad Fleet. Uso is able to cut a lot of the beam cannons off the ship. Further the LM try to avoid blowing up the ships(first it's pragmatic because it will cause a nuclear explosion, later it's because there are several hostages on the ship).Also (SPOILER) Odelo destroying the bridge of a ship is actually able to make the ship stop moving, plus most of the crew survive. It's not like there characters were trying the same thing as Kira, just that they ended up with a more practical solution.

Also it's hard to guess where Global Relations will go in the future(Look at Layzner and the 90's Space Cold War for example), So adding contemporary issues in Sci Fi is nothing new really, though it can date the work. Of course so can the clothing and technology depicted.

[DarthYAM]

A lot of people buy into the meme version of Kira, largely out of backlash. He could be somewhat annoying in Destiny but I do think a lot of that is misplaced onto his Seed version.

In any case I think Flay living wouldn't be bad; dying is an easy way to resolve things; having the character live and atone is much harder and it would have allowed actual closure (since she had become a better person she at least deserved the chance to make peace with him. Do I see them ever being a couple? God no, there's too much ugliness but it would be cool to see them at the very least have a civil discussion and part amicably.

Lyle Dylandy....again I like the character but I kept being reminded of Beerfest where Landfill dies and then his identical twin brother (also named Landfill) appears and it's like nothing happened. In Beerfest it was played for laughs, whereas in the show it's somewhat played straight (it's like how Blofeld was Bond's stepbrother in Spectre, when in Austin Power's they suddenly made them brothers. Again a comedic joke from a spoof became an actual plot point). Had they changed Lyle's appearance at least it would have probably addressed a lot of that and allowed his different personality to be noticed.

[Dark Duel]

I honestly had a problem with the entire concept of the dead guy being replaced by his identical twin brother who also adopts the same name. So what I would do, IF I used Lyle at all, is keep him to a minor character. And maybe change his appearance somewhat to differentiate the two.
As for the new Meister...If I had been the one in charge of S2, I would've had Feldt step up instead. Seemed like that's where they were going when they discussed her backstory, at least to me, and then zilch. I think there's interesting story potential in having her follow in her parents' footsteps that was wasted.

[Mafty]

Definitely agree with the whole replacement twin not working. It's kind of like in Majestic Prince (which didn't exactly take itself seriously to start with), one of the darker moments has two characters die in battle against the aliens. Come the movie one character is replaced by his sister, who is also used for fanservice comedy. It kinda seemed awkward and messed up one of the better serious moments in the show. As for 00 why did they use the whole "Backup Twin" thing anyway? Was it always planned? Or was Neil so popular, they realized they shouldn't have killed the character? There's actually an interesting plot element with replacement twins in Linebarrles of Iron. A minor character sacrifices herself, later her twin shows up, just too ask if her sister was brave. When the main character replies she was, said character promptly fades into the background.

Also I'm not sure of this, but It seems like Fllay was always supposed to die in SEED. I've heard of early drafts(though admittedly these should be taken with a grain of salt, as they may just be rumors) where Fllay is turned into a human bomb, who either blows up the Archangel, or commits suicide with Sai in space. Personally I think the second version would be a bit more dramatic and tragic, than the fridge stuffing the series ended up using(though admittedly I still think the scene on it's own has merit).

[DarthYAM]

1.) Lyle at least has a distinct personality (he's more mellow and laid back) and his fighting style differs as well. He also appears very briefly in Episode 9 so he didn't come entirely out of nowhere. And I DO actually like his tragic romance with Anew (though I do think Anew could have lived to avoid another "stuffed in the fridge" kinda thing).

2.) That said I would have him LOOK different, and maybe get a different voice actor.

3.) With Flay I've always been conflicted. In the DUB and Manga Flay and Kira actually do get to have a final conversation, whereas in the original sub she didn't. I felt that at least having her actually talk to Kira would have given her at least a small bit of redemption in that while she's encouraging him to fight it's for a good reason this time.) I also do think living and atoning would have been an interesting angle to go with her.

4.) With Louise she never really quite has to address all the horrible things she was privy to. I felt having Saji give more detailed arguments (how the A Laws slaughtered innocent people) or even having him SHOW her his memories would do more to shake her. She also liked Kinue, so seeing a memory of Ali (Ribbon's enforcer) oh so casually admit to killing her would be a major blow too. At the very least it would help Saji get some closure when Lyle finally kills Ali.

[Mafty]

At least Lyle was established as a character before his appearance (Unlike Lemrina in Aldnoah Zero). But I agree that maybe the character could have been differentiated; ie, maybe Neil's sister instead of identical twin, or as has been stated previously one of the previous established characters, like Feldt or even Saiji (hey he ended up being forced into a pilot position anyway, plus his sister was murdered).

[SonicSP]

Personally I'm fine with the Lyle twin thing. His inferiority complex to Neil is easily more understood as a twin. It also makes the others continued reverence of Neil feel stronger as they continue to feel his loss even though his physical doppleganger is there.

This is especially felt in combat, where Setsuna/Tieria frequently assumes leadership roles in the team (that has a "Lockon" in it), compared to Season 1 where Neil usually takes it.

It was also nice to see the contrast in Lyle being relatively less obsessed with revenge even if he was tempted/infected with it at some points. Compared to Neil who chose to throw his life away for a literal shot at revenge.

I've come to even appreciate the Anew romance as imperfect as it was, cos it showed that Lyle wasn't consumed enough by his past to have a romantic relationship, whereas the impression I got with Neil that he wasn't.

Storyline wise these can be done without them being twins but the superficial look makes the contrast stronger in my opinion. I used to also wish it was a non identical sibling as well but over the years I've come to liked what we got.

It also continues the series' double theme: Neil/Lyle, Allelujah/Hallelujah, Tieria/Regina, Soma/Marie, Innovade doubles, Twin Drive, etc.