Gelgoog development acceleration?

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amitakartok
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Gelgoog development acceleration?

Post by amitakartok » Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:00 pm

From what I heard, the Gelgoog's deployment was postponed by Zeonic having difficulty with miniaturizing beam weapons to the same extent as the Gundam did.

Realistically, how much help would it be to Zeonic's engineers if they got their hands on one Guncannon plus beam rifle plus a kidnapped Tem Ray? Would it help in getting Gelgoogs on the field faster? And if yes, how much effect would it have on the battlefield?

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Seto Kaiba
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Re: Gelgoog development acceleration?

Post by Seto Kaiba » Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:41 pm

amitakartok wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:00 pm
From what I heard, the Gelgoog's deployment was postponed by Zeonic having difficulty with miniaturizing beam weapons to the same extent as the Gundam did.

Realistically, how much help would it be to Zeonic's engineers if they got their hands on one Guncannon plus beam rifle plus a kidnapped Tem Ray? Would it help in getting Gelgoogs on the field faster? And if yes, how much effect would it have on the battlefield?
Probably not very much.

To be frank, the Principality of Zeon's defense industry was more than a bit of a mess. The Principality's leadership was thoroughly infested with self-important military brass appropriating portions of the nation's defense budget for their own pet projects from the very outset. Pursuing so many different programs in parallel ate up a lot of Zeon's development resources to no useful end, and it definitely didn't help that Zeonic and Zimmad wasted a lot of their energy and resources spying on, undermining, and outright sabotaging each other's work in the name of securing a dominant position for themselves in the Zeon military's supply chain. On at least one occasion they went so far as leaking data from their rival's programs directly to the Earth Federation.

If the Principality of Zeon did somehow manage to capture something like a Guncannon in intact-enough condition that they could structurally analyze it, I'd expect it'd actually end up slowing down delivery of Zeonic's Gelgoog as Zeonic and Zimmad would waste a ton of time arguing over who would get to take custody of it and even more on how (or if) they'd share the data from the analysis, and still more on spying on and sabotaging each other's work.

That said, getting the Gelgoog out earlier probably wouldn't have made much of a difference either... since Zeon's biggest problem was the lack of experienced pilots when the Gelgoog did roll out.
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yazi88
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Re: Gelgoog development acceleration?

Post by yazi88 » Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:19 pm

Yeah, it was infighting, not just on the political side but also on the corporate side that screwed over a LOT of things for Zeon. Getting a intact Guncannon with beam rifle would not have made any difference.

Lack of proper planning was a issue too, look at MS IGLOO alone and see the various problems with testing units...

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Re: Gelgoog development acceleration?

Post by MythSearcher » Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:45 am

I agree they are politically stupid to make the (if) captured Guncannon of any help.

Also, technologically, the Guncannon isn't much more advanced than Zeon's own MSs in a way that can help.
In order to mass produce things, you have to have the industrial technology to do so.
Making one of something is one thing, making it efficient and economic to manufacture is another.

I have no doubt Zeon can custom make a unit that is on par or even better than the Guncannon, which is the first real humanoid MS build by EFF and based a lot on the technology they learnt from captured Zakus (i.e. the RFf-06 Zanny) And they didn't throw everything they had into the Guncannon, unlike the Gundam, it is a unit where they are still taking baby steps and they still didn't have a lot of support. The concept of the unit is also quite different, while Zaku is modelled more on a fighter plane like concept, the Guncannon is a Heavy but slow tank like concept.(Although the superior EFF technology still made its thrust to mass ratio higher than the Zaku and Rick Dom and thus a faster unit)

Yes, the Guncannon had superior thrusters, generator and such, but the Zeon is unlikely to be able to mass produce those specs because if they can do so, they'd already have done so.
Reverse engineering those might give them some hints, but the basic concepts of the thrusters and generator are the same(Thermonuclear rocket and Minovsky-Ionesco Fusion Reactor), reflecting the slight differences that make the advancement to their production lines also requires a lot of research and development, which may actually be slower than their own development. The MS-09R already had similar thrust per thruster, MS-06R series had similar total thrust, the MS-11 had better generator output.
The beam rifle might be the same situation. At the very beginning of the war, if their development teams didn't have any idea of the E-cap, the beam rifle might be of extreme importance, because the concept of using the E-cap to pre-charge the Mega particle cannon is all it takes to minimize the size of it. However, if the capture is in September 0079(Even if you count the Origin as canon, the RCX-76 didn't have beam rifles), Zeon is already on the way to developing their own beam rifle and they already had the concept of E-cap.

If the captured unit is Gundam, on the other hand, the technology might be more advance and will likely just take more time to reverse engineer.

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Re: Gelgoog development acceleration?

Post by JEFFPIATT » Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:01 pm

the MS-11 dis start out as the Gelgoog project up until Char managed to luck out on his top secret mission and stumbled on the Project V test site. the project was assigned a new model code YMS-14 and had its project goal reworked to match up to the RX-78-2 the YMS-13 project got reclassfied as a Zaku series unit. Zeon had the same issue that historically caused the Nazi military to get defeated. ther focous was on powerful advanced MS and the brass had pet projects and three still competing companies fighting to be the maker of the current work horse. While zeon had Zeonic, Zimmad and MIP basically fighting over who got the big contract the EFF had focused on a standard model with a small learning curve produced in mass along side basically a space forklift with a gun attached. the RGM-79 was built wioth the allied think on there tanks. the Sherman was made so a kid who could drive a tractor could use it compared to the german more advanced tanks where you needed more training to uise well. A GM was basically made to work closer to a EFAF or EFSF fighter craft. the MS-14 had a completely different control setup from the MS-05 and MS-06 unite used in there training and since the UMP was too late to help the MS-09r that siome user moved from was also a different control setup from the zeonic suits.

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Re: Gelgoog development acceleration?

Post by MythSearcher » Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:26 am

JEFFPIATT wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:01 pm
Side note, I've heard that the Sherman isn't really built with all compatible parts, just that they ship the parts made in the same area(state?) to the same battle field and thus they don't have a maintenance problem, but if you take parts from a different production location, they can be so different that you may not be able to use it at all.

EFF seems to be using the same idea here. They have 6 main manufacture locations for the GM, and the Jaburo models(Mostly Kunio Okawar's designs) can be so different even in the appearance than the Lunar II models(Mostly designs by others. (Though the parts are interchangeable, mostly)

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Re: Gelgoog development acceleration?

Post by JEFFPIATT » Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:04 pm

MythSearcher wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:26 am
JEFFPIATT wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:01 pm
Side note, I've heard that the Sherman isn't really built with all compatible parts, just that they ship the parts made in the same area(state?) to the same battle field and thus they don't have a maintenance problem, but if you take parts from a different production location, they can be so different that you may not be able to use it at all.

EFF seems to be using the same idea here. They have 6 main manufacture locations for the GM, and the Jaburo models(Mostly Kunio Okawar's designs) can be so different even in the appearance than the Lunar II models(Mostly designs by others. (Though the parts are interchangeable, mostly)
that was something that Zeon had not done untill it was too late. The UMP was them going back and refitting there active MS lines to function the same and have more parts compatibility. Zeon had there eye on just advancing the Tech and had a fleet of super cars with student drivers while the Fed had forklifts and tractors with whoknew there units.

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Re: Gelgoog development acceleration?

Post by MythSearcher » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:37 pm

JEFFPIATT wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:04 pm
that was something that Zeon had not done untill it was too late. The UMP was them going back and refitting there active MS lines to function the same and have more parts compatibility. Zeon had there eye on just advancing the Tech and had a fleet of super cars with student drivers while the Fed had forklifts and tractors with whoknew there units.
Yes, too late indeed. Even with the UMP, most of the fielded MS aren't compatible with others, and more ironic, not compatible with the UMP models, but they are still out there in the frontlines fighting.

Also, it is not just the parts that are incompatible. The cockpits are also different so pilots needed some degree of training or at least adjustment time when changing to other MS, even if they are the same model by a different contractor.(a Zeonic MS-06 has a different cockpit than a Zimmad MS-06, not to mention the MS-06 pilots having to switch to a MS-09.)

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