The Official Gundam Hathaway Anime Thread Mk I

[False Prophet]

This really, really feels like just a coincidence, but does anyone feel like there is something to muse about the monstrous designs of Xi and Penelope and their relationship to war? I always have this feeling like the Penelope is being presented as a "caged force of nature", like, everyone from Anaheim and the Federation just accept that inequality, tension, conflict, and eventually war at this point are inevitable, and so maybe what they should do is to milk war for as much profit as possible. They institutionalized war, which is not unlike putting shackles on a beast (the Penelope) and making it do your bidding.

Mafty on the other hand also accept said fact, know how ugly war is, and that they still have to use war if they want to bring about something better. So they created a monster of their own (the Xi) but gave it the title of "Gundam" as a crystallization of their belief that they were doing something right.

[Seto Kaiba]

This really, really feels like just a coincidence, but does anyone feel like there is something to muse about the monstrous designs of Xi and Penelope and their relationship to war? I always have this feeling like the Penelope is being presented as a "caged force of nature", like, everyone from Anaheim and the Federation just accept that inequality, tension, conflict, and eventually war at this point are inevitable, and so maybe what they should do is to milk war for as much profit as possible. They institutionalized war, which is not unlike putting shackles on a beast (the Penelope) and making it do your bidding.

Eh... I think that ship sailed quite some time before the events of Hathaway's Flash. Anaheim Electronics had already learned as early as the Gryps Conflict that there was a LOT of money to be made from selling weapons to all sides to ensure that conflicts continued into the future. By the time of Char's Counterattack they were all but openly selling to Neo Zeon in addition to their regular Earth Federation Forces customers, the Federation's various anti-spacenoid forces, and a double handful of paramilitary groups like the AEUG or Karaba.

Back then, the Penelope said to me nothing quite so much as "let's make this design as 90's as possible" with a ton of spiky sh*t all over it.

Nowadays, it's more an urge to call it "Untitled Goose MS".

[MythSearcher]

Eh... I think that ship sailed quite some time before the events of Hathaway's Flash. Anaheim Electronics had already learned as early as the Gryps Conflict that there was a LOT of money to be made from selling weapons to all sides to ensure that conflicts continued into the future. By the time of Char's Counterattack they were all but openly selling to Neo Zeon in addition to their regular Earth Federation Forces customers, the Federation's various anti-spacenoid forces, and a double handful of paramilitary groups like the AEUG or Karaba.

There's also the fact that AE funded AEUG and likely at least partially funded Karaba as well, definitely turned a blind eye on most of the original Zeon related staff from leaking information, actual products, and very likely some funding to Zeon remnants, and while we do not really know if they have anything to do with CV, they definitely also funded LM.

From MSV-R RoJR we know that they are also sucking fundings from EFF by account laundering MIA combat groups, and some of those groups are used by EFF different branches to create conflict among themselves, so there's also that side of the war.

[False Prophet]

Eh... I think that ship sailed quite some time before the events of Hathaway's Flash. Anaheim Electronics had already learned as early as the Gryps Conflict that there was a LOT of money to be made from selling weapons to all sides to ensure that conflicts continued into the future. By the time of Char's Counterattack they were all but openly selling to Neo Zeon in addition to their regular Earth Federation Forces customers, the Federation's various anti-spacenoid forces, and a double handful of paramilitary groups like the AEUG or Karaba.

I see where are you coming from, but I was talking more about the aspect of designing mecha, about how the designers may have unintentionally make their designs into symbols of some ideals in-universe. This is of course left to personal interpretation and in my case feel like chopping the feet to fit the heels. But I just can't help but to think about it.

It's just like how I have a love-hate relationship with AoE designs. With other Gundam series, you could tell from a glance at any MS what kind of ideas and design language the designers want to speak throught them, and what kind of role in the narrative do they play. AoE designs is the opposite. In many cases you can't definitely say what the designers want to speak through their designs. But then T3 MS are supposed to be like that, right? They are prototypes thrown together, jumbled mess of ideas. They are not completed products that you've to care about the aesthetics and the language of aesthetics for marketing.

Back then, the Penelope said to me nothing quite so much as "let's make this design as 90's as possible" with a ton of spiky sh*t all over it.

Nowadays, it's more an urge to call it "Untitled Goose MS".

Penelope is designed by a Yasuhiro Moriki, right? I'm unfamiliar with the style of this guy, despite he has done mechanical designing for surprisingly many shows I've watched. If it wasn't for MAHQ, I'd have been mistaken the Penelope to be a Kazumi Fujita design pushed out of the left field.

On another note, it's the second time in the last two years I've to ask: What is Mikimoto doing these days? Pretty much everyone I know love Paplo Uchida's new character designs, but I wonder if he and Mikimoto made some discussions before the designs were made.

[Mafty]

Moriki Is another of those mecha designers whose style permeates a lot of their work across different series. Moriki worked a lot on late 80s OVA’s, Manga/Novels and some Video Games. His style is some what distinctive, in that the Mechs are hulking war machines(Like the Iczer series or the Battle Armor in MD Geist), that lumber across a city scape. For example around the time he did designs for Hathaways Flash he was also working on Zeorymer; if you look at the two series there designs are VERY similar, ie the Peneople and the Zeorymer itself. Other series Moriki worked on followed suit( the main unit in D1-Devestator looks very similar to Briest of Fire from Zeorymer). Even some of Morikis modern designs still have a lot of spiky, bulky 80s aesthetic (ie Active Raid).
Tomino also seems to have a liking to the large bulky designs of the 80s. I realize it isn’t clear just how much Tomino was involved in everything related to Gundam: but he did write Hathaways Flash, and (presumably) selected Moriki as the designer. Tominos other 80s novelizations had similar large , bulky designs(ie the really hard to find designs from Hi-Streamer, or the designs in the now non canon Gaia Gear).I’m not sure what led to making MS smaller; it could be everything from the in universe reasoning to scale back designs as technology improved, to Bandai wanting to spend less money on plastic.
As for Mikomoto his heyday seemed to be in the 80s where he worked on numerous projects. He is still somewhat active doing character designs for series like Tytania and Kabaneri of the Iron Fortress, as well as doing ending illustrations for various series.

[Underrated GM Custom]

I'm trying to remember what made Gaia Gear non-canon, was it Victory Gundam? Isn't there a plot thread at the end of Hathaway's Flash where Kenneth's future goals tie into Gaia Gear.

Spoiler

I read about the ending a very long time ago, I haven't checked back up on it since I plan on being surprised by the rest of the movies. As I recall Kenneth was so unhappy with Hathaway's fate that he vows to change things. The implication was that he or his successors lead to the Z organization. Could be wrong, it's been a while and didn't want to go digging too deeply without spoiling the rest of the movie trilogy

[Mafty]

I'm not sure exactly what in Victory Gundam made Gaia Gear non canon (it's still set 50 years later), but G-Savior (which is still canon apparently) definitely contradicts it.

SPOILER

I don't know a lot about the ending either, however you could argue that originally the two works may have been tied together. The increasing viciousness and corruption of the Earth Federation ties in well to the later Manhunter Attachment. Mafty becoming Z becoming Metatron seems the most likely due to the similarity in goals. Crossbone Vanguard wanted a Cosmo Aristoracy, something Mafty would object to. Zanscare wanted to overthrow the Government and replace it with a Spiritual Matriarchy; which is closer to what Mafty wanted, until it was revealed to be controlled by a nutjob from Jupiter who was using this as an excuse to kill everyone on Earth. Z/Metatron's goals and their endgame of Memory-Cloning Char seems like the most likely endgame of a century of hidden planning. Further the Mech designs in both series are both rather bulky and imposing.

[Chris]

On another note, it's the second time in the last two years I've to ask: What is Mikimoto doing these days? Pretty much everyone I know love Paplo Uchida's new character designs, but I wonder if he and Mikimoto made some discussions before the designs were made.

He was working on the Macross: The First manga again after a long pause, but then he stopped again and I don't know what the status of the series is now.

[MythSearcher]

I'm not sure exactly what in Victory Gundam made Gaia Gear non canon (it's still set 50 years later), but G-Savior (which is still canon apparently) definitely contradicts it.

I've heard that G-Saviour was built on events happening in Gaia Gear which caused the dissolution of EF, which created the background political map of G-Saviour?

[Mafty]

I'd never heard of that, but it makes sense that something would have finally caused the EF to collapse. G-Savior was supposed to be part of the Gundam 20th Anniversary, so tying in several work may have been part of the initial plan.

[False Prophet]

Is whatever Hasegawa doing tied to the 20th Anniversary project or G-Savior? Dust is 54 years before G-Savior, I think.

Anyway, have anyone noticed some online reviews that said they understood nothing of Hathaway because they hadn't watched CCA and the original Gundam? I think there is one on the AV Club. Really makes you want to wonder why didn't they just watched these shows. I mean the promotional material explicitly said that Hathaway's Flash was the sequel to CCA, right?

Also, do you think they will show Amuro and Beltorchika's child in the next movie? I mean, Beltorchika survived in both the novel and the manga, right? Or any former White Base crewmen other than Bright and Mirai?

[Mafty]

Is the movie trilogy following the Novel/ or CCA? As has been discussed before you'd only need to slightly tweak Hathways motivation to match up with CCA (they both involve Quess's death). However Hathways discussion about stealing the Jeagan and destroying the α-Azieru are directly taken from the novel. That being said it could still follow the movie; as Chan would have died , and everyone would probably think that Quess killed her and then Hathway killed Quess.

Also when is the next movie coming out?

[Chris]

Is the movie trilogy following the Novel/ or CCA? As has been discussed before you'd only need to slightly tweak Hathways motivation to match up with CCA (they both involve Quess's death). However Hathways discussion about stealing the Jeagan and destroying the α-Azieru are directly taken from the novel. That being said it could still follow the movie; as Chan would have died , and everyone would probably think that Quess killed her and then Hathway killed Quess.

Also when is the next movie coming out?

Nobody in Gundam Hathaway ever says anything about him destroying the Alpha Azieru, just destroying an enemy unit. In the CCA movie, Hathaway uses his vulcans to destroy a Geara Doga immediately after stealing the Jegan. They could be referring to that, or it could be that it was presumed he destroyed the Alpha Azieru rather than Chan.

As for when the next movie comes out, there's no announced date right now.

[Underrated GM Custom]

Anyway, have anyone noticed some online reviews that said they understood nothing of Hathaway because they hadn't watched CCA and the original Gundam? I think there is one on the AV Club. Really makes you want to wonder why didn't they just watched these shows. I mean the promotional material explicitly said that Hathaway's Flash was the sequel to CCA, right?

Also, do you think they will show Amuro and Beltorchika's child in the next movie? I mean, Beltorchika survived in both the novel and the manga, right? Or any former White Base crewmen other than Bright and Mirai?

Yeah I saw some of those too, it's kind of embarrassing to be honest, to be a critic and not bother watching previous works. It'd be like watching Return of the Jedi as your first movie then complaining you don't know any of the character dynamics or background since you never watched A New Hope or Empire Strikes Back. Oh well. On the bright side Hathaway has gotten a lot of buzz from the general public on message boards and I've seen several people comment they liked the movie and planned on watching some of the older shows on Netflix.

As for Continuity so far the movie has been intentionally vague which I prefer quite a bit. As Chris mentions in the movie they say Hathaway shoots down an enemy MS. Since they don't elaborate on it, it let's the viewer decide if they are referring to the Geara Doga, Re-GZ or Alpha Azieru. I'm hopeful they keep this up rather than lock down onto one continuity or the other.

[Chris]

Since they don't elaborate on it, it let's the viewer decide if they are referring to the Geara Doga, Re-GZ or Alpha Azieru. I'm hopeful they keep this up rather than lock down onto one continuity or the other.

I highly doubt that they're referring to the Re-GZ because they said something to the effect of "enemy unit." Also, if it was widely known that Hathaway killed Chan, that'd probably be considered treason and not something that Kenneth would be impressed by years later.

[bhayes82]

Yup. Lane is changed to be the 'underdog' almost. He's just following orders and is very driven to prove to others that he's worthy. no one respects him.
...
So it's interesting, i'm curious how deeply they'll delve into this in the next film.

Completely agree, I'm interested to see how much of that they tackle in the next films and whether they'll expand on the novels at all or continue to cleave close to the source material.

It's also interesting that Lane is not respected at all, since he is a Gundam pilot. As I recall with his scores as a test pilot it was mentioned he was a second coming of Amuro or something to that effect. Plus his design in the games looks pretty close to Amuro, moreso than the movie. I get the feeling they're going to flesh that out a bit more in the next movie.

Well. I think this is a good change cause...it makes his character more sympathetic. He's not a bad person but he's following orders and trying to gain the respect of his comrades...and Hathaway is just too powerful and elusive. It will make his victory over the Xi Gundam and Hathaway 'pay-off' more in Movie #3 cause in Movie 3 Hathaway is defeated by Lane but just barely. Lane barely wins in movie #3.

and that's what i like about this film. in the novels, they emphasize how 'bad' and 'terrible' the Federation is and how Mafty is trying to liberate the people. in the film the federation isn't 100% bad and Mafty has bad people within their ranks too. it's left up to the viewer who's 'REALLY' the bad guy.

[Underrated GM Custom]

I highly doubt that they're referring to the Re-GZ because they said something to the effect of "enemy unit." Also, if it was widely known that Hathaway killed Chan, that'd probably be considered treason and not something that Kenneth would be impressed by years later.

Right, what I was trying to say was in universe they reference an enemy unit which is ambiguous so as the viewers we can ascribe either continuity (CCA - Geara Doga or Beltorchikas - Alpha Azieru) based on that line.

I wouldn't be surprised if they split the different and stick with CCAs timeline but officially credit the Alpha Azieru kill to him to avoid him getting a death sentence for stealing a MS.

[tHeWasTeDYouTh]

Moriki Is another of those mecha designers whose style permeates a lot of their work across different series. Moriki worked a lot on late 80s OVA’s, Manga/Novels and some Video Games. His style is some what distinctive, in that the Mechs are hulking war machines(Like the Iczer series or the Battle Armor in MD Geist), that lumber across a city scape. For example around the time he did designs for Hathaways Flash he was also working on Zeorymer; if you look at the two series there designs are VERY similar, ie the Peneople and the Zeorymer itself. Other series Moriki worked on followed suit( the main unit in D1-Devestator looks very similar to Briest of Fire from Zeorymer). Even some of Morikis modern designs still have a lot of spiky, bulky 80s aesthetic (ie Active Raid).

No wonder the designs for the Xi Gundam and Penelope looked so familiar to me. I just bought all the Zeorymer DVDs at a garage sale and watched the entire OVA before I watched Gundam Hathaway. What perfect timing I had no idea the mecha designer was the same. Small world

[bhayes82]

Could someone help me understand how Mafty (Hathaway) plans to achieve his ultimate goal and what does the Mafty organization truly want?

I mean in the books they're trying to STOP the privatizing of the earth for the rich and stop the deportation of the poor into space colonies which is understandable.

but the Movie makes it appear that Mafty (Hathaway) is trying to continue what Char Aznable started and that to 'heal' the earth - everyone must live in space and leave the earth. Doen't that contradict his desire to stop the deportation.

I hope in the next film they'll delve into the politics a bit deeper and explain why Hathaway was chosen as leader. the film portrays both sides and no one side is more 'right' than the other. In the book there is a Federation official who secretly aiding mafty with resources, money, mobile suits cause he's the one who started Mafty and influenced Hatahway.

the books portray the federation as being cruel and evil and Mafty as trying, but ultimately failing, to bring down their regime.

but the movie certain things aren't explained very well.

[Underrated GM Custom]

That is a bit difficult to comprehend if Mafty wants to stop the deportation of people into space but at the same time Hathaway wants humanity as a whole to move into space (Char's ideals). I'm not an expert on Hathaway's Flash but my understanding was that Hathaway was trying to both embrace Amuro and Char's ideals, he wanted people to move into space (but didn't want to force it with say a giant asteroid) which lines up with the Newtype theory that mankind will progress as individuals and as a civilization as we migrate into space.

As for how Mafty's plans will create that goal, well that's hard to say. I think in this case it's a good example of goals/ideals and actions not matching up 1 to 1. I also recall reading that Tomino intended for Hathaway's flash to be an example on not clinging to the ideals of the past (Hathway holding onto Char and Amuro's ideals) which ultimately ends poorly for him.

Again not an expert, just my quick thoughts on the matter. Someone more well versed in Hathaway's Flash can probably give a more concrete answer.