Making Sense of the Battle of Loum

[mcred23]

Mark's Mystery Ships thread got me thinking about Loum, which we haven't really dived into in a while. As with almost anything UC, there are many different, often contradictory claims from the print sources about this important battle.

Some of the information from the older sources can be discounted easily, such when the battle takes place. A few of them claimed the battle took place a month after the One Week War, but all seem to agree on the January 15th date at this point, Another that several (Seemingly older) sources (Such as the Roman Album, MSV 1, and I think Tominos MSG novels, which I'm not at home to check) claim is that Side 5 was attacked as part of the One Week War, only here the Federation (Under the command of Revil) manage to stop the Zeon attacks. This idea seems to be largely excluded from most explanations we get today, which always seem to make it a point to exclude listing Side 5 as being a target of the One Week War attacks (Which begs the question why Side 5 is spared from the early attacks, although I'm not sure any answer is ever offered...).

That leads to the question of what the heck was the point of the battle of Loum? The previously mentioned older sources claim it was more or less just a continuation of the previous fighting or Zeon's 2nd attack on the Side. However, Mark's timeline notes that Entertainment Bible 39, as well as Gundam Century, claim Zeon went to Side 5 with the intent of grabbing a second colony to drop on Earth (Why they couldn't just grab one of the gassed ones from Side 1, 2, or 4 I have no idea. Maybe they just wanted to deal with this one remaining Federation controled Side?). By the same token, I've heard it suggested that some more recent sources (I think the Origin, or maybe others, but I'm not sure) that the second colony drop was just a ruse by Zeon to lure the remaining EFSF into a major battle...

Which brings us to the actual battle itself, of which there are a couple of accounts that make varying degrees of sense. The print sources usually don't go into much details, although Mark's timeline includes a timeline of the battle itself that has been known to the English-speaking fandom for quite a while (It was part of the Library of Londenion, for example. Keep that page in mind for later...). The Roman Album version makes the battle seem kinda one sided, but most other sources usually make it clear the battle was very costly for both sides. Most of them also clearly state the fight takes place inside Side 5 airspace, which is why the Side is utterly destroyed by the fighting. Of course, then we have MS IGLOO, which is our only filmed version of the battle, which shows the Federation and Zeon fleets lining up for broadsides out in the middle of nowhere with no colonies anywhere in sight, or idea how the Side thus ends up ruined. IGLOO also makes it pretty clear that Zeon planned from the start to use their mobile suit forces as their main attack, but the version I recall from ye olden times was that wasn't Zeon's original plan, and the MS were only unleashed as something of a last resort.

There is also Gundam: The Origin's version of the battle, which was once described on here in some detail but I can't find the post (Which tells you how long ago that may have been ). The thing I recall from that was this version of the battle made it seem like two seperate fights, one an IGLOO-like situation outside the colony airspace, and another occuring among the colonies at either the same time or shortly after the other battle.

Anyway, going back to the fight itself, there is the question of what the hell was involved in the fight. The Roman Album and EB 1, among other sources, make reference to Zeon using nuclear weapons (Most specifically, Zaku's using bazookas with nuclear warheads), but this doesn't seem to be included in others (Whether it's because they are older, or just ignored those other books as often happens, or whatever) and IGLOO seems to show Zeon using purely conventional weapons. The ol' fan perception of the battle (And the start of the war in general) for many years was that both sides just nuked the living crap out of each other without much regards for the colonies around them, but I don't think any sources actually suggest the Federation used nukes at Loum (The only reference to them using nukes at this stage of the war seems to be when they tried to stop the British colony drop). I think part of that, and a lot of the older perceptions of the battle, come from the Gihren's Greed video game (Some screenshots of which were present on Library of Londenion's Loum page, which was basically the de facto source of information on Loum back in the day). I know some of the cut scenes in that at least show Zeon using nukes on colonies. Gihren's Greed also seems to be the only source having the Federation deploying swarms of Saberfish space fighters at the battle (Although I'd imagine one of the MSV books or something made reference to it first), while others just make reference to them fielding warships, which is all IGLOO shows as well.

So, getting to some more direct questions for those of you with access to the sources and the Japanese side of things, is there major details or versions of the battle I got totally wrong or left out? Is there some other source with information worth mentioning (Like some RPG source book, or more Gundam shot glasses, or some special magazine that only ten copies were printed and Deacon owns eight)? Do you guys or the Japanese fans have a preferred version of the battle (I think Mark has mentioned the Origin version as making some sense a few times)? Basically, what I'm hoping is, like all the MS stats and production numbers, there is some way to make a seemingly reasonable consensus about what the fudge actually happened at Loum...

...Which will probably be totally ruined by the animated version of the Origin, or whatever guide book comes out next.

[Xenosynth]

Well, one of the only times I've seen the Battle of Loum was through a game, which is of course unofficial. However, in Gundam The Ace Pilot for the Gamecube, many Zeon Aces (Ramba Ral, and the black tri stars specifically) start at the battle of Loum in their custom Zaku Is. The game does indeed have you using nukes on the feddies when participating in the battle. The details of the battle beyond that, I have no clue of sadly.

I am starting to wonder if my PS2 Gihren's Greed game would also have anything about the battle of Loum, though I dunno for sure.

Bah, the questions now have me very curious about the Battle of Loum itself now too. I always kinda went by the Gundam Wikia's version of things. Maybe we will get more answers with The Origin or something.

[toysdream]

I do remember typing up a summary of the Gundam The Origin account, but it may have been on another site or an earlier version of these boards. So let's re-recap...


As the war begins, there's already a Federation fleet garrisoned at Side 5. According to Gundam Historica, this is actually General Revil's Third Fleet, since Revil - with his characteristic foresight - anticipated that Zeon was going to launch some kind of mischief and moved his fleet as close as possible to Side 5. In The Origin, though, it's Admiral Tianem whose fleet is parked there. Either way, this explains why Zeon didn't attack Side 5 at the start of the war.

According to Dozle's mission briefing, the Tianem fleet alone (whose size is estimated at Magellan x 15, Salamis x 30, missile frigate x 40, and supply ship x 30) rivals that of the entire Zeon fleet. Meanwhile, the Federation is also deploying Revil's main fleet, which we see being launched from Earth (rather than from Luna II, as in most other accounts). Revil's fleet is twice the size of Tianem's, so the entire Federation force is three times bigger than the Zeon one.

Dozle's plan is to engage the Tianem fleet head-on in a fleet battle, while dispatching a "special mobile suit battalion" carried aboard a bunch of transport ships to ambush the Revil fleet as it hurries toward Side 5. This mobile suit force consists of two companies, one led by Char and the other by the Black Tri-Stars.

On January 23, Revil's fleet launches from Earth and heads for Side 5. Meanwhile, Zeon mobile suit forces sneak into Side 5 and make diversionary attacks on the colonies. Tianem figures this is a trick to draw his forces back into the Side itself, and leaves it to Revil to split off part of his own force to go assist the colonies.

In practice, Dozle's strategy falls apart almost immediately. Because the enemy's Magellans have greater firing range than any Zeon ship except the Gwazine, he can't even get close enough to fight the Tianem fleet without getting cut to ribbons. In tears, he orders his fleet to turn around and rush at full speed towards to approaching Revil fleet instead. This time, things work out brilliantly - Revil's forces don't realize the enemy is approaching until they see the Zeon ships with their naked eyes, and Dozle's fleet charges straight through Revil's forces, guns blazing. Immediately afterwards, the mobile suit battalion goes into action, and Char and the Tri-Stars lead a brutal assault on the reeling, confused Revil fleet.

With little difficulty, Dozle's fleet and the mobile suit battalion mop up the remainder of the Revil fleet and take the general himself prisoner. The Tianem fleet remains completely unscathed, but abandons its position at Side 5 and limps back home, allowing the Zeons to go into the undefended colonies and finish exterminating every living inhabitant.


So there's that! This two-front battle does give us some fleet combat in open space, as well as the same kind of sneak attack by Papua-based mobile suits described in EB 39 and depicted in MS Igloo, plus an explanation of how the Side 5 colonies got trashed. Of course, it's predicated on the notion that Char and the Tri-Stars all worked directly under Dozle, which doesn't really work in the anime continuity. Since the Tri-Stars are normally Kycilia's loyal underlings, a really convincing account of Loum would need to include a role for Kycilia's Mobile Assault Force, but at this point we're so far from a "really convincing account" that the point is academic.

The notion that the "second Operation British" was a ruse to draw out the Federation's reserve forces was first mentioned in MS Igloo, and it seems plausible enough to me, especially if Zeon doesn't have control of Side 5 as the battle begins.

As far as other sources, there's a ton of interesting info in an old Hobby Japan sourcebook called "Gundam Games," which is not only decades out of print but seeming completely forgotten even by Japanese fandom. I'll jot some of that down in a little bit.

-- Mark

[mcred23]

However, in Gundam The Ace Pilot for the Gamecube, many Zeon Aces (Ramba Ral, and the black tri stars specifically) start at the battle of Loum in their custom Zaku Is.

Ramba Ral did use his Zaku I during the start of the OYW, but the Tri-Stars had already switched to their Zaku II's. MSV 2 has them in MS-06C's at Loum, which seems right to me.

Cool The Origin stuffZ

Interesting stuff, but the first thing that jumped out was the January 23rd date. Does that mean the order of events prior to Loum are different, or just spread out over more time than the other timelines?

I also saw you mention there, and in a few other threads recently, that Magellan-class had a longer range than everything except the Gwazine. Perhaps it's just me misremembering, but I thought that the Musai had a better range than the Salamis, or has that never been mentioned anywhere? Also, one fact that always stuck with me over the years, from the Library of Londenion page, was the claim that Fed's didn't open up on the Zeons until they were only 28 km away, which is a lot smaller than the distances mentioned in the space combat thread...

One thing that bugs me about The Origin (And I guess IGLOO version as well) is the way Zeon wipes out Loum. By most accounts I remember, they mainly just gassed Sides 1, 2, and 4, leaving most of the colonies otherwise intact, but here for whatever reason, they do enough damage to IIRC leave only Texas colony intact. Seems like an odd change from what they did in the first week of the war, even if the end result (Side wiped out by Zeon) is the same, and is partly why I've never been that crazy about those depictions of the battle (That, and I just find the older ones more interesting ).

[toysdream]

Yeah, the timeline in The Origin is a bit more extended. That January 23 date is the only one specifically mentioned in relation to Loum; the next one we get, I think, is February 15 for the start of the Antarctic Treaty negotiations.

I don't know if we've ever been given a specific comparison for the ranges of the Musai and Salamis. As for the 28,000 meter range cited on that Library of Londenion page, this comes from the account of the battle in Entertainment Bible 39. The notion that the effective range of warship main cannons is less than the length of a single colony seems like one of those ideas we should just ignore because it's utterly stupid.

While we're bashing on Entertainment Bible 39, I should also note that that they use the wrong Side maps throughout the book, placing Side 5 next to Side 2 rather than putting it in front of the moon. The notion that the Federation fleet launched from Luna II in response to a Zeon invasion of Side 5, and arrived there shortly after the Zeons did, doesn't make any sense when you're using the correct map. But this is the basic premise behind EB 39's chronology of events, which has since been rolled into the official timeline.

In The Origin, at least some of the damage to the colonies is attributed to diversionary attacks by mobile suits, which served to split up the Federation forces a bit. A lot of other accounts don't even give us that much!

-- Mark

[Zeino]

So why exactly did Loum turn into such a horrific bloodbath that ended up obliterating Side 5 ? Was it a case of Dolze being reckless and not caring for collateral damage?

[ShadowCell]

if their objective was to slaughter everyone in Side 5 to begin with, then that wouldn't be "collateral damage" so much as it would be "getting a head start" >>

[toysdream]

I think it was pretty much the first time anyone had ever fought a battle within a Side. By most accounts, the previous fighting had consisted of the following...

1) Zeon warships launch surprise attacks on the Federation patrol fleets around Earth.

2) Kycilia's forces occupy Granada, with no real resistance; by some accounts, they also make a diversionary attack on Side 5.

3) Zeon forces attack Sides 1, 2, and 4, with basically no resistance, and exterminate the colony inhabitants with poison gas.

4) Zeon attaches engines to a Side 2 colony, moves it out of orbit, and sends it toward Earth. Federation fleets make repeated attacks on the colony while it's in transit.

So up until this point, all the action either seems to take place in open space away from the Sides, or involves Zeon massacring defenseless spacenoids. As well as being the first use of mobile suits in a major battle, Loum also seems to be the first major battle fought within a Side, although of course you'd never guess that from the depiction in MS Igloo.

(And of course, as ShadowCell notes, the Zeons probably intended to murder everyone at Side 5 anyway. In The Origin, since there's no combat within the Side, they wait until the Tianem fleet has gone home and then go in and kill all the civilians.)

-- Mark

[Gelgoog Jager]

My only issue with that theory is that unlike Sides 1, 2 and 4, Side 5 supposedly ends up completely thrashed, eventually becoming the infamous shoal zone where Delaz even managed to hide his fleet after the OYW.

If Zeon killed the civilians after the battle, why destroy the colonies with nukes? They could have just use GG gas instead, allowing them to capture facilities and resources basically intact.

[toysdream]

If we're obligated to honor MS Igloo's depiction of a big fleet battle outside Side 5 involving Char Aznable and a mobile suit ambush, then we could account for the destruction of the actual colonies by assuming there's a second front inside the Side itself.

Since Char is present at the battle outside the colony cluster, we can assume these are Dozle's forces. Since the Black Tri-Stars aren't shown here, we could say that Kycilia's forces are attacking the Side itself; since the Tri-Stars end up capturing Revil, it follows that Revil is in charge of the fleet at Side 5, just as Tomino's novels originally said. The tactics and nature of that battle, though, would have to be made up from whole cloth because we can't base it on any of the existing accounts.

-- Mark

[Deacon Blues]

In the Shin Matsunaga manga, they started using the colonies as shields and shot THROUGH them... 0_o; me thinks the "collateral damage" went out the window.

[JulieYBM]

Such an awfully exciting post in general, Mark. Thanks for giving those of us awaiting the Verticle release of the comic a look into what we can expect! Those specific numbers for the fleets were also riveting to read.

I'd like to focus on this little excerpt, though:

With little difficulty, Dozle's fleet and the mobile suit battalion mop up the remainder of the Revil fleet and take the general himself prisoner. The Tianem fleet remains completely unscathed, but abandons its position at Side 5 and limps back home, allowing the Zeons to go into the undefended colonies and finish exterminating every living inhabitant.

Why exactly does Tianem's fleet abandon their position? Were they assuming that Zeon was heading directly for Earth and Dozle's earlier tactic was a crack strategy, rather than a quick change in tactics? Also, if Tianem's fleet alone rivals "the entire Zeon fleet" does that mean that Dozle's fleet was Zeon's sole invasion fleet? Where Kycillia's, Garma's and the Side 3 fleets not formed yet? Perhaps this is actually a good explanation for why Dozle had access to the Black-Tri Stars? Or perhaps "the entire Zeon fleet" includes any forces under Kycillia's command and she was leading part of the battle, too? Hmm...

[toysdream]

Why exactly does Tianem's fleet abandon their position? Were they assuming that Zeon was heading directly for Earth and Dozle's earlier tactic was a crack strategy, rather than a quick change in tactics? Also, if Tianem's fleet alone rivals "the entire Zeon fleet" does that mean that Dozle's fleet was Zeon's sole invasion fleet? Where Kycillia's, Garma's and the Side 3 fleets not formed yet? Perhaps this is actually a good explanation for why Dozle had access to the Black-Tri Stars? Or perhaps "the entire Zeon fleet" includes any forces under Kycillia's command and she was leading part of the battle, too? Hmm...

None of these really seem to be addressed in the comic. I'm not sure why Tianem withdraws from Side 5, although his position doesn't seem very favorable at that point.

As far as the rest of the Zeon forces, Kycilia does seem to have some ships that were used to occupy Granada, but it seems like the Mobile Assault Force from the anime doesn't really exist in the Origin continuity - Kycilia doesn't have any involvement in the Battle of Loum, and all the mobile suit forces report to Dozle at this point. For that matter, in the comic, Dozle is also in charge of the mobile suit project - Kycilia doesn't have anything to do with that either.

Garma, meanwhile, is a pure sideshow. He's sitting with his daddy aboard the Gwazine, watching the battle from thousands of kilometers away, and whining about how he wants to be involved in the exciting battle. Yas doesn't seem to have a lot of respect for the Zabis, least of all Garma!

So as cool as the Origin version is in some respects, it would require a lot of editing and revision to make it compatible with the information from other sources.

-- Mark

[Deacon Blues]

So as cool as the Origin version is in some respects, it would require a lot of editing and revision to make it compatible with the information from other sources.

Unless Sunrise cooks up yet another rendition for the Origin animation adaptation (If they choose to animate that part that is)

[Zeonista]

The exact order of events has been thoroughly muddled by all the differing accounts, which have often exaggerated certain features for their own dramatic purposes. The account as assembled by toysdream is pretty good, and not unlike that of a real historian piecing together the jumbled accounts of a real surface action from multiple sources. For some real histories that grapple with the problem, I recommend Steel Castles,(Jutland), Incredible Victory and Miracle at Midway (Midway), and Neptune's Inferno (Guadalcanal).

The main points to keep in mind can be summarized from the account.

1. Loum is a distinct action from the "One Week war" that is the Principality's blitzkrieg against Sides 1, 2, 4, and Operation British. It is also distinct in being a planned fleet action on both sides.

2. The battle begins with Revil Fleet in possession of Side 5, with Tienem Fleet en route to support it. Presumably Revil has use of the Side 5 EFSF garrisons as well.

3. Tienem sorties because of intel that Dozzle Fleet intends to retry Operation British. This is credible cause for action, and gives the EFSF a chance to play hammer and anvil with Dozzle Fleet & gain a great victory. Dozzle being Dozzle, any potential intent for a "British II" goes by the wayside during the battle...

4. Dozzle Fleet attacks Tienem Fleet first and has to change attack plans in mid-course when the initial attack fails to dent Tienem Fleet and results in many ZMF losses. This is done, no small feat considering the difficulties involved. Tienem is left out of position for a while.

5. Revil Fleet is the victim of Minovsky particle fields and the general inability to comprehend Mobile Suits as a new weapon. Ship losses are sizable on both sides since modern warships aren't designed for close-range combat! Side 5 is the victim of every missed shot or disabled war machine that impacts a colony wall. (Contrary to Federation propaganda, there is no follow-up cleansing operation. The Side is a complete loss to the Federation as is, with almost no intact or inhabitable colonies.)

6. Tienem realizes Revil is done for, and that his own advancing fleet is also in danger of defeat in detail if he charges into the mess. He orders a return to formation and retreats, with relatively light damage compared to Revil Fleet's near-total loss. Dozzle Fleet elements see him off, picking off stragglers, and return to regroup.

7. Dozzle declares victory and takes his beat-up but jubilant fleet home. In one day they have removed Side 5 from the strategic equation and put the still numerically superior EFSF firmly on the defensive.

I also remember the general description of the Gundam: The Origin account of Loum, which toysdream might have done back on the Evolution forum. IIRC it had Dozzle overpowering Revil in a sustained short-range action among the Sides, then using the massed MS force to flank and rout Tienem. This account is credible, since it leaves the EFSF very short on ships indeed, to the point of not being able to protect Earth from invasion. It also showcases the Zaku's role in turning the tide. At the same time, Dozzle's ham-handed conduct of the early battle gives the ZMF enough of a butcher's bill that when added to earlier losses makes Revil's "no warriors in Zeon" speech meaningful.

The MS Igloo account is so foreshortened as to be useless as a guide to battle events. I suppose it could be the specific account of the Jormugand cannon as it sits behinds a force left behind by Dozzle to slow Tienem until enough Zakus are available to maul Tienem's advance guard and persuade him to retreat. The Jormugand is not a mobile weapon, so it fails to accomplish anything in a highly mobile battle.

[toysdream]

As far as Gundam The Origin, I already summarized that version of the battle at the start of thread. I do think it's worth retaining the part where the Federation and Zeon fleets are fighting in open space, and then the Zeon side deploys a bunch of mobile suits from supply ships and bushwacks the Federation fleet. This is a dramatic highlight of both the MS Igloo and Gundam The Origin versions, and it's a bit more interesting than the Gundam Century account where the Zeon mobile suits are just trying to strap engines onto the colony throughout most of the battle.

The involvement of Tianem also seems a bit iffy to me. In The Origin, there's no mention of him being involved in Operation British - he's just been parked at Side 5 since the start of the war. EB 39, on other hand, has the Tianem fleet playing a leading role in trying to stop the falling colony, and then limping back to Luna II with 70% losses. The Battle of Loum takes place just five days later, which is barely enough time for a Federation fleet to travel from Luna II to Side 5, if it started the moment the colony landed - certainly not enough time to go back to Luna II, reassemble an entire fleet, and then go all the way across the Earth Sphere to Side 5.

I think all of these accounts - EB 39, Gundam The Origin, and so forth - are trying to cram in as many cameos of TV series characters as possible. It makes sense to find some kind of role for Tianem in all this, but we can't put him in two places at once!

-- Mark

[Zeonista]

I do believe the involvement of the grand attack by the MS force is a decisive factor in the battle, so any account that does not mention it or something akin to it is missing the entire purpose in the first place. the Battle of Loum is the turning-point of space warfare, where the Mobile Suit takes the leading and decisive role. From this point on, according to the Universal Century, commanders will no longer ask first "how many ships" but "how many mobile suits". Besides, how can all the Zeon ace bios brag about their kill lists at Loum if they didn't get the sorties in?

EB #39 is its own enemy in using the wrong map. So its account will be at odds with the other ones. Nothing to be done there, except make a note in passing, and marvel at the inability of the writers to even bother to reference other works on the subject.

I really like the idea of the EFSF committing two fleets to the action, and then taking the big defeat. So therefore having Tianem fleet on the spot to assist Revil makes for the big unbalancing battle. But does it have to be Tianem who leads the fleet there?

Option 1: Tianem has been at Side 5 along with Revil since the beginning of the war. This seems like a serious lack of initiative on someone's part in the EFSF. EFSF HQ at Luna 2 will let two entire fleets sit at Side 5 and play defense while the ZMF rampages through 3 sides, calmly sails into Granada, and tries to create Lake Jaburo? It does not make sense.

Option 2: Tianem sorties from Luna 2 with its fleet to join Revil, as detailed in my previous post. This is acceptable, assuming that he's been there the entire time and not involved in the other actions.

Option 3: Tianem tries to stop Operation British, then goes over to Luna 2 to refit, then zips over to Side 5 in time to take part in the battle. This does seem to put him on the clock! However, I can accept this on the premise that it shows the strategic initiative is still with the Zeon side, and the Federation forces are locked in reaction mode. To wit, Tianem Fleet arrives at Luna 2 to refit, offload casualties take on replacement crews, and get ready for the next round. The news about Dozzle Fleet's mission immediately causes Tianem to quickly change his plans. Damaged ships are left behind, new ships are added on the spot, and everybody burns gees to Side 5 ASAP to prevent another bruising orbital battle. (Nobody said Tianem had to travel the distance at standard speed!)

Option 3 can also explain Tianem Fleet's lackluster performance. Consider the hastily added squadrons and replacement ships don't work smoothly with his own units, and the hasty refit means there's not enough fuel and ammo to really make the full effort. Add in the charged-particle fog of war, and the vicious Zakus, and Tianem might well decide he's not going to throw away ships and men just so he can say he "did his best".

[toysdream]

I don't think we necessarily need to involve Tianem in Loum at all. This only comes up in Gundam The Origin; no other account of the battle has Tianem in it, and EB 39 (which has become the go-to source for most of the later publications) specifically says that the remains of his fleet are parked at Luna II as an emergency reserve.

One question that comes up here is, where were the Federation's space fleets at the start of the war? Obviously we have a bunch of them at Luna II. EB 39 says, and Gundam The Origin concurs, that Zeon begins the war by ambushing the Federation patrol fleets in Earth orbit. And by many accounts, there's a fleet stationed at Side 5 when the war begins - not a bad place for keeping an eye on Zeon activities. So is that it, or are there more EFSF forces hanging around elsewhere?

-- Mark

[zetatype]

With little difficulty, Dozle's fleet and the mobile suit battalion mop up the remainder of the Revil fleet and take the general himself prisoner. The Tianem fleet remains completely unscathed, but abandons its position at Side 5 and limps back home, allowing the Zeons to go into the undefended colonies and finish exterminating every living inhabitant.

Here's the problem I have with that explanation. I was under the impression that the battle of Loum had decimated both sides so badly that the war became a stalemate for the next eight months (at least on the space front).

However, according to what you say, Tianem's Fleet, which is the size of the entire zeon fleet, is relatively unscathed, and it seems that Dozle still has the majority of his fleet after thrashing Revil's fleet. This leads to three problems.

1) Its my understanding that the federation almost surrendered to Zeon after Loum, because they lost most of their space forces and were unaware that Zeon had suffered heavy casualties as well. Had Revil not escaped and given his "Zeon is exhausted" speech then the federation may have surrendered.

2) If Tianem's fleet was intact then you'd think they would have been used to repel Zeon's invasion of Earth; which I believe met virtually no resistance during the atmospheric re-entry phase.

3) In a way this could conflict with the MSG TV/movie series. I believe in episode 31 or 32, we see the Tianem fleet taking off from Jaburo. The way I understand it, Salamis and Magellan ships can't re-enter the earths atmosphere, which would imply that all those ships are recently built. This leads me to assume that the Tianem fleet suffered heavy casualties during the beginning of the war.

Also, the most common explanation for the complete destruction of side 5 is that it was the result of reckless fire on both sides (collateral damage). However, if no fighting had actually taken within close proximity to the sides, then why were all the side 5 colonies completely destroyed when Zeon's usual method is gas? Also, if they were there to capture colonies to drop onto earth then this just makes no sense.

Anyway I'm glad to see a thread like this because I also have wondered excatly how the battle of Loum played out. It's kinda funny that despite all the stories about the OYW that are out there, there is very little on the bloodiest parts of the war (One Week Battle and Loum).

[Gelgoog Jager]

I took another look at MS Igloo: after the scene showing the colony heading towards Earth, we are given an explanation prior to the Battle of Loum. As Oliver speaks, the Federation fleet on screen passes besides Side 5, whose colonies can be seen quite close to the fleet. Moments later, the Jotunheim seems to be heading directly to Side 5, which is only seen as 42 white dots in the distance. Soon afterwards, the Zeon fleet passes besides the Jotunheim. This would indicate that the Federation fleet arrived at Side 5 before the Zeon fleet, and therefore their objective is to prevent the Zeon fleet from entering Side 5, not driving it out.

After a screen indicating the time being 10:45, we see that the Zeon fleet begins to turn around, while we see from a shot taken besides a colony that the Federation have already formed a defensive line. I suspect that the reason the ships are facing sideways instead to the front is because the Federation is trying to extend the defensive line as far as they can to prevent any Zeon forces from getting past them. In turn this forces the Zeon fleet to turn around upon arriving and also end up facing the EF fleet sideways.

During the explanation prior to the battle, Oliver basically says that the Federation fleets that were hiding at Luna II finally decided to come out. On one hand this would confirm that the main fleet that participated in the Battle of Loum did came all the way from Luna II. On the other hand, this could also imply that no fleets launched from Earth or elsewhere to participate in the battle, or at least didn't do so without heading to Luna II first.