The Official Gundam Unicorn Mecha Thread Mk III

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balofo
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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by balofo » Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:29 pm

Angelo Sauper wrote:
Kratos wrote:Because the aesthetic design of a single mech has always had such a huge impact on narratives. :roll:

Seriously, I get not liking it (I think the fan art was cooler), but to say it will RUIN THE STORY?
I'm with Deacon here. I don't think it will ruin my previous experience with Unicorn, but not only is the Neo Zeong jarring in the context of almost everything that's been shown to us, it's also jarring that it wasn't the author's original intent.

It's a cheap move, I don't know why creators feel the need to make everything bigger and more explosive as a series goes on.
Fukui is behind the OVAs too, son :D

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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by Deacon Blues » Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:40 pm

Angelo Sauper wrote:It's a cheap move, I don't know why creators feel the need to make everything bigger and more explosive as a series goes on.
How will it ruin the story? Look at everything.

You have the Sinanju being developed and stolen two years prior to the events of Unicorn. Then you have this massive arse mobile armor that just happens to be sitting on the Rewloola. Exactly how would this unit have been developed over the course of just one month? That's the entire span of Gundam Unicorn. This doesn't jive too well with the flow of things. Plus I highly doubt it will shoehorned in as being developed all along. But, we'll have to wait another 9 months or so for the Prismatic backstory on it.

I doubt Fukui created this monstrosity.

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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by toysdream » Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:41 pm

Well, he did say "the author's original intent" rather than "the original author's intent." Since the novel came first, you could probably say it's closer to Fukui's original intent by definition. :-)

-- Mark

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balofo
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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by balofo » Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:57 pm

Since the beginning they said they would make a better final fight than the anticlimatic novel one. I(and many others) always interpreted that as Frontal getting something that could damage the GODMODE HARD RX-0s.

Also the novel was supposed to be 12 volumes but was cut to 10. Who knows Fukui was planning :)

Oh and the OVA was ruined with OVA 4 raping the Earth Arc and the weak OVAs 5 and 6. Novel and Bande Desinee are far superior story wise.

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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by Brave Fencer Kirby » Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:27 pm

Deacon Blues wrote:You have the Sinanju being developed and stolen two years prior to the events of Unicorn. Then you have this massive arse mobile armor that just happens to be sitting on the Rewloola. Exactly how would this unit have been developed over the course of just one month? That's the entire span of Gundam Unicorn. This doesn't jive too well with the flow of things.
Personally, I've always wondered how Neo Zeon managed to come out of the beating they took in CCA -- where they lost a good dozen ships and scores of mobile suits -- and rebound with a whole new upgraded frontline force plus a scattering of Newtype death machines. If anything, I'd expect them to look like the Delaz fleet, who had to cut back on performance in favor of ease of maintenance (like Cima's Gelgoogs using machine guns instead of beam rifles) and cobble together whatever they had spare parts for (like the Dra-C).
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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by BrentD15 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:48 pm

balofo wrote:Oh and the OVA was ruined with OVA 4 raping the Earth Arc and the weak OVAs 5 and 6. Novel and Bande Desinee are far superior story wise.
Do I even wanna ask how?
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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by balofo » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:03 pm

LOL, that ''fin'' at the top is actually the Sinanju's shield, so expect to armor purge to continue being raped by the RX-0.

http://img1.imepic.jp/image/20140221/79 ... d40fbb96e8

Poor guy never stood a chance

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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by Xenosynth » Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:20 pm

Wait... OVA 6 was considered weak? I... actually really enjoyed it. Moreso than 3, 4, and 5, and I didn't consider 5 very weak either O_o.

The Neo Zeong really seems like a love it or hate it design honestly. Normally I don't like dividing things to extremes but people seem to either go 'I like it' or 'Worst thing ever' it seems. I... honestly don't mind it very much. I'd have preferred something a bit smaller, but still. I can't assume the episode is going to be horrible just because of the existence of a last minute MA. I'd rather just see it and judge it when it is actually out.

Besides, I think like the normal Zeong, it'll be much better in animation than in pictures. I used to very greatly dislike the Zeong design before actually seeing it in action, and it ended up growing on me. Yes, ridiculous size for this one ((Nearly three times as large as a Psyco Gundam)) but still.

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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by yazi88 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:10 pm

So the Neo Zeong is just mobile platform for the Sinanju like the GP03 Orchis, but looks and somewhat functions like the Neue Ziel...

To be honest, I kind of expected this, as there is no way they would abandon the Sinanju or turn it into a hand me down. It just got a major firepower upgrade in the OVA to probably help counter the FA Unicorn or Banshee Norn, I guess even the Sleeves deserved a upgrade as Federation forces upgraded the Banshee.

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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by latenlazy » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:33 pm

Brave Fencer Kirby wrote:
Deacon Blues wrote:You have the Sinanju being developed and stolen two years prior to the events of Unicorn. Then you have this massive arse mobile armor that just happens to be sitting on the Rewloola. Exactly how would this unit have been developed over the course of just one month? That's the entire span of Gundam Unicorn. This doesn't jive too well with the flow of things.
Personally, I've always wondered how Neo Zeon managed to come out of the beating they took in CCA -- where they lost a good dozen ships and scores of mobile suits -- and rebound with a whole new upgraded frontline force plus a scattering of Newtype death machines. If anything, I'd expect them to look like the Delaz fleet, who had to cut back on performance in favor of ease of maintenance (like Cima's Gelgoogs using machine guns instead of beam rifles) and cobble together whatever they had spare parts for (like the Dra-C).
Zeon insurgents have has ALWAYS had good technology. Even when they're not in control of an actual state they have a lot of friends and resources in industry, probably from all space development and space mining money that is really a staple legacy of the Zeon cause. The REAL measure of military strength is not so much your one off bling but how much industrial strength you have. Zeon as it is now has problems with quantity, not quality. They can win single engagements with devastating force, but would never be able to match the full military might of the Federation, and it would really make sense for them to focus more and more on staying small and winning single engagements with a small set of superior machines than try to fight using the numbers game.
Deacon Blues wrote:
Angelo Sauper wrote:It's a cheap move, I don't know why creators feel the need to make everything bigger and more explosive as a series goes on.
How will it ruin the story? Look at everything.

You have the Sinanju being developed and stolen two years prior to the events of Unicorn. Then you have this massive arse mobile armor that just happens to be sitting on the Rewloola. Exactly how would this unit have been developed over the course of just one month? That's the entire span of Gundam Unicorn. This doesn't jive too well with the flow of things. Plus I highly doubt it will shoehorned in as being developed all along. But, we'll have to wait another 9 months or so for the Prismatic backstory on it.

I doubt Fukui created this monstrosity.
I fully expect Bandai to milk this one harder than a prized cow and give it a full side story to its history and development.
balofo wrote:That feel when Katoki has been more miss(Norn NT-D, Exexbein, Neo Zeong, Kshatriya Repaired) than hit lately.

Poor guy needs some vacation to get fresher ideas
I actually quite liked the Norn NT-D...

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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by balofo » Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:23 am

HGUC Neo Zeong confirmed, tech info guaranteed!

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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by latenlazy » Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:25 am

balofo wrote:HGUC Neo Zeong confirmed, tech info guaranteed!
That thing is going to be massive.

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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by balofo » Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:37 am

latenlazy wrote:
balofo wrote:HGUC Neo Zeong confirmed, tech info guaranteed!
That thing is going to be massive.
80cm!

http://i.imgur.com/EwIM6Lf.jpg

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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by latenlazy » Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:46 am

balofo wrote:
latenlazy wrote:
balofo wrote:HGUC Neo Zeong confirmed, tech info guaranteed!
That thing is going to be massive.
80cm!

http://i.imgur.com/EwIM6Lf.jpg
Jesus Christ.

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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by Brave Fencer Kirby » Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:20 am

latenlazy wrote:Zeon insurgents have has ALWAYS had good technology.
Since when? As I pointed out, the Delaz Fleet was forced to abandon some of their cutting edge (as of the end of the war) technology due to maintenance concerns, and rely on things like the Dra-C (a kitbash of a Zaku and a space fighter) to shore up their numbers. The only "good technology" they have are the GP-02, which was hijacked, and the Neue Ziel, which was given to them by Axis. The Zeon remnant forces we see in Africa during ZZ have OYW-vintage machines not up to modern specs. Char's Neo Zeon has time to build up their forces through the sorts of sympathizers you mention, and Char's canny enough to leverage that, but even they only really have a bunch of Geara Dogas (a thoroughly average machine) and a handful of custom Newtype-use units (Sazabi and Alpha Azieru, plus some Jagd Dogas).

What strains credulity is that after getting the pulp beat out of them, failing in their primary goal, and losing their leader, Char's Neo Zeon turn around and not only replaces their losses from CCA, but actually get upgraded models (Geara Zulus instead of Geara Dogas), plus get their hands on another half-dozen special Newtype machines (Kshatriya, Sinanju, Shamblo, Rozen Zulu, and the Neo Zeong -- okay, one short of half a dozen, but still more than they had during their heyday under Char). One would expect them to be less capable militarily after getting handed as devastating a loss as they were during CCA, not more so.
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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by latenlazy » Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:09 am

Brave Fencer Kirby wrote:
latenlazy wrote:Zeon insurgents have has ALWAYS had good technology.
Since when? As I pointed out, the Delaz Fleet was forced to abandon some of their cutting edge (as of the end of the war) technology due to maintenance concerns, and rely on things like the Dra-C (a kitbash of a Zaku and a space fighter) to shore up their numbers. The only "good technology" they have are the GP-02, which was hijacked, and the Neue Ziel, which was given to them by Axis. The Zeon remnant forces we see in Africa during ZZ have OYW-vintage machines not up to modern specs. Char's Neo Zeon has time to build up their forces through the sorts of sympathizers you mention, and Char's canny enough to leverage that, but even they only really have a bunch of Geara Dogas (a thoroughly average machine) and a handful of custom Newtype-use units (Sazabi and Alpha Azieru, plus some Jagd Dogas).

What strains credulity is that after getting the pulp beat out of them, failing in their primary goal, and losing their leader, Char's Neo Zeon turn around and not only replaces their losses from CCA, but actually get upgraded models (Geara Zulus instead of Geara Dogas), plus get their hands on another half-dozen special Newtype machines (Kshatriya, Sinanju, Shamblo, Rozen Zulu, and the Neo Zeong -- okay, one short of half a dozen, but still more than they had during their heyday under Char). One would expect them to be less capable militarily after getting handed as devastating a loss as they were during CCA, not more so.
The Delaz fleet eventually got the Valvaro and the Neue Ziel. We can go through the list of Neo Zeon supermachines in Z and ZZ. I think we agree on what happened in CCA, but keep in mind that though we don't see them but the Axis forces are still around. If I'm remembering right, the Sleeves are a combination of Char's forces and other remnants of Neo Zeon in space. It also shouldn't be surprising that all the Char sympathizers would shift their money and resources to Full Frontal, which helps explain all the new newtype super machines. That and I'm sure Paulau had their own engineers and factories, plus the other potential facilities they may have access to floating in space. Add that together with the multitude of leftover mobile suits, spare parts from Haman's movement, what things they can scavenge from space leftover from all those battles, theft, and a negligent federation, and I don't think it's unreasonable for them to be able to assemble and build a handful of super weapons.

I think it's fair to expect the leftovers of Neo Zeon to be more diminished, but they CAN rebuild (and clearly have). After all, they had "The Second Coming of Chri...Char' to rally around. Even then though, it seems very clear to me that in Unicorn they are short on the numbers and manpower Char had access to, so in a sense they still are VERY diminished. Char had an entire army. The Sleeves, despite their few impressive machines, are a largely ragtag and barely organized insurgency. The Delaz Fleet probably had more military power than the Sleeves. If that's what you've become, focusing your resources on a handful of very powerful highly survivable machines that can take on entire task forces makes a whole lot of sense. It concentrates what little manpower you do have, gives you a tactical advantage, and helps you win battles, but you're never going to be able to win campaigns or hold territory.

It also makes sense that they could manage having these super machines from a cost and resource vantage. The Federation has thousands if not tens of thousands of soldiers to man with mobile suits. If the Federation had 100 times the buying power of the Sleeves, the Sleeves could still afford to spend 10 to 100 times more for their handful of super mechs.

Overall, I just don't think how impressive your handful of bling is is a good measure of your fighting strength. That bling makes you look beastly in individual engagements, but it hardly matters in grand strategy.

EDIT: If you saw me say Axis, I meant Paulau. Oops.
Last edited by latenlazy on Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by Angelo Sauper » Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:21 am

Brave Fencer Kirby wrote:What strains credulity is that after getting the pulp beat out of them, failing in their primary goal, and losing their leader, Char's Neo Zeon turn around and not only replaces their losses from CCA, but actually get upgraded models (Geara Zulus instead of Geara Dogas), plus get their hands on another half-dozen special Newtype machines (Kshatriya, Sinanju, Shamblo, Rozen Zulu, and the Neo Zeong -- okay, one short of half a dozen, but still more than they had during their heyday under Char). One would expect them to be less capable militarily after getting handed as devastating a loss as they were during CCA, not more so.
On the surface it may seem like that, but the third Neo Zeon is actually more carefully crafted than that. The fleet in Char's Counterattack was no doubt their cutting edge force, but it didn't make up the entirety of the remaining Neo Zeon and neither did they take huge losses in the Axis drop.

The third Neo Zeon movement are the last dregs of the previous movements andthey've been backed into a corner. The Zeon remnants and the Garvey Enterprise are like a fifth column. They're not able to mount an invasion, they're not able to take on the Federation Forces in a head to head battle, which is why they need the box as a bargaining chip.

The MA is a contradiction to everything known about them. Yeah, it will give them more firepower, but they've not relied on firepower until now. There has always been tact and guile, their newtype machines have always been used decisively and they've always known when to put up a fight and when to retreat.

Mobilising their entire fleet is what had me excited all along, I don't think we needed a huge MA to make us scratch our heads.

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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by BrentD15 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:35 am

Xenosynth wrote:Wait... OVA 6 was considered weak? I... actually really enjoyed it. Moreso than 3, 4, and 5, and I didn't consider 5 very weak either O_o.

The Neo Zeong really seems like a love it or hate it design honestly. Normally I don't like dividing things to extremes but people seem to either go 'I like it' or 'Worst thing ever' it seems. I... honestly don't mind it very much. I'd have preferred something a bit smaller, but still. I can't assume the episode is going to be horrible just because of the existence of a last minute MA. I'd rather just see it and judge it when it is actually out.

Besides, I think like the normal Zeong, it'll be much better in animation than in pictures. I used to very greatly dislike the Zeong design before actually seeing it in action, and it ended up growing on me. Yes, ridiculous size for this one (Nearly three times as large as a Psyco Gundam) but still.
That's just over-exaggerations set by high expectations with little to no exceptions in regards to middle-ground quality.
People need to chill out.
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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by balofo » Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:05 pm

Kshatriya Repaired has FUNNEL MISSILES!

http://img226.poco.cn/mypoco/myphoto/20 ... 721030.jpg

Design redeemed.

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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by Raikoh » Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:39 pm

Angelo Sauper wrote:The MA is a contradiction to everything known about them. Yeah, it will give them more firepower, but they've not relied on firepower until now. There has always been tact and guile, their newtype machines have always been used decisively and they've always known when to put up a fight and when to retreat.
Are we just sweeping the existence of the Shamblo under the rug?
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