Zero's Twin Buster Rifle's capabilities?

[Wingnut]

as for the tallgeese III's cannon overheating, remember that it was being used in space, which would greatly hinder its a ability to cool down (this was a problem that seemed to plague all beam cannons in wing come to think of it, excluding Wing and Wing zero, incidentally how was wing zero's TBR able to fire multiple shots in space without overheating?)

I don't really have an answer for that one, but I can tell you that the Vayeate too had no problems with multiple shots with very little time in between firing.

[Arsarcana]

I never found Wing to be the must technologically plausible show, so we may just have to take the mechs with a grain of salt.

Like any mecha show is all that technologically plausible to begin with. Okay, there are a few that are reasonably good but Gundam has never been among their number.

After all, this is the show where a colony just spontaneously combusted after being hit with a TBR shot

I think they explained after the fact that the shot set off a chain reaction inside the colony that did most of the damage (basically what we saw the TBR do to that resource asteroid in its first appearance or what Tallgeese III's cannon did in EW) while the colony-wide beam and completely disintigrating colony was a bit of artistic liscense.

and the Heavyarms has two huge gatling guns built into it's chest frame.

You consider that implausible? I can think of a ton of stuff in Wing that's way wonkier than that, starting with Gundanium's plot-dependant immutability, then moving on to Shenlong/Altron's arms that can extend far longer than there's space in the shoulders to hold the extra segments and can somehow lift heavy objets with the things at full extension.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

It's been ages since I've watched Gundam Wing, but doesn't Endless Waltz pretty much prove that the TBR is a reactor-operated weapon? Heero is firing continuous shots at the bunker and each time he does, it cripples the Wing Zero more and more. Also, the Tallgeese III's mega rifle seems like a very similar weapon, and that is obviously reactor powered because the Tallgeese overheats after Zechs fires it.

As said, Wing Gundam Zero was already damaged by battling Altron beforehand and the amount of recoil put on the damaged body while trying to maintain accuracy would put too much strain for it to handle and cause it to be damage further with each shot until it finally gave out with the 3rd shot (not to mention the shot was being maintained).

I don't recall the Tallgeese III's mega cannon to have overheated though. I just assumed that Zechs never used it after simply because it was too powerful to be used in the urban warfare he and Noin were in because of how much damage it would cause to the area (and most likely kill civilians) and it'd not only destroy the MS, but kill the pilots too; something they were both doing everything in their power to avoid.

Vayeate's big energy collector would most likely also have very powerful cooling systems to prevent the collector itself AND the beam cannon from overheating I'd guess. Wing Gundam Zero just seems to be the technological plothole of all plotholes for Wing it seems x_x.

[Dendrobium Stamen]

I just had an idea...

What if (and this is purely hypothetical; bear with me) Wing Zero used the MS' own cooling system to cool off the TBR between shots? It might not be entirely practical, channelling that much waste heat through the hand (or hands) to be radiated out from the MS' main body, but if Gundanium has a particularly high heat resistance it might be one possible method. Plus, it has the advantage of tying in with Endless Waltz: Zero's cooling systems were already over-taxed by the re-entry battle with Wufei, so trying to absorb and then bleed off the heat from three full-power shots from the TBR, even in atmosphere, was too much for the Gundam's frame to take, perhaps?

...Alternatively, it's a particularly big rifle: the entire casing could be one big radiator, or series of radiators, in order to dissipate heat right along the weapon's length. But that's far less fun, IMO

[tehprognoob]

@ vmsns

no thats because the Wing zero was already heavily damaged from its fight with the altron and couldn't structurally handle the recoil forces involved with firing the TBR and remaining airborne whilst maintaining pinpoint accuracy


as for the tallgeese III's cannon overheating, remember that it was being used in space, which would greatly hinder its a ability to cool down (this was a problem that seemed to plague all beam cannons in wing come to think of it, excluding Wing and Wing zero, incidentally how was wing zero's TBR able to fire multiple shots in space without overheating?)

remember that tallgeese's rifle has an open barrel. this doesn't give it space for a cooling system.

[stormturmoil]

I just had an idea...

What if (and this is purely hypothetical; bear with me) Wing Zero used the MS' own cooling system to cool off the TBR between shots? It might not be entirely practical, channelling that much waste heat through the hand (or hands) to be radiated out from the MS' main body, but if Gundanium has a particularly high heat resistance it might be one possible method. Plus, it has the advantage of tying in with Endless Waltz: Zero's cooling systems were already over-taxed by the re-entry battle with Wufei, so trying to absorb and then bleed off the heat from three full-power shots from the TBR, even in atmosphere, was too much for the Gundam's frame to take, perhaps?

...Alternatively, it's a particularly big rifle: the entire casing could be one big radiator, or series of radiators, in order to dissipate heat right along the weapon's length. But that's far less fun, IMO

Problem with that is that if Wing Zero Custom is able to use all that huge bloody wing area it has as radiating surface, it'd seem Not to have an issue with overheating

Although it might explain why it's got four wings rather than two: Needs the extra surface area for surge demand when it fires the TBR

[Stampede89]

There seems to be some confusion going on as to the TBR needing cooling and using Gundanium as a heat sink. First of all, Gundanium having high heat resistance makes it the wrong choice to dissipate heat as it basically repels it in the first place. This is why Gundanium based weapons are stronger, they can increase the energy output without the risk of the weapon melting or overheating. In the simplest terms, Gundanium is an insulator whereas copper is a conductor.

Also, this is a rather advanced era so it wouldn't surprise me if superconductors are used, reducing energy resistance and overall heat output.

BTW, Gundanium is plausible, we are just nowhere near that level of technology.

[vmsns]

It's been ages since I've watched Gundam Wing, but doesn't Endless Waltz pretty much prove that the TBR is a reactor-operated weapon? Heero is firing continuous shots at the bunker and each time he does, it cripples the Wing Zero more and more. Also, the Tallgeese III's mega rifle seems like a very similar weapon, and that is obviously reactor powered because the Tallgeese overheats after Zechs fires it.

As said, Wing Gundam Zero was already damaged by battling Altron beforehand and the amount of recoil put on the damaged body while trying to maintain accuracy would put too much strain for it to handle and cause it to be damage further with each shot until it finally gave out with the 3rd shot (not to mention the shot was being maintained).

I'm not trying to say you're wrong, but I don't recall the Wing Zero's buster rifle ever producing any noticeable recoil in Gundam Wing. At all. Like I said though, it's been a while since I've seen the show, so I'm just going on what I can remember. However, ignoring the specs and technical data and just going by the eye test, it always appeared to me that the damage the Wing Zero sustained while firing at the bunker was caused by severe strain on the reactor because of the buster rifle. I always assumed that Heero had the rifle on some kind of super-high output setting which the reactor was not built to sustain. But then again, I could be totally wrong. That's just what I always though since the first time I saw the movie.

And yes, I believe the Tallgeese III did overheat after firing it's mega rifle. Remember Zechs just floating there in the atmosphere waiting for Noin to pick him up? It's because his MS was inoperable due to overheating.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

I'm not trying to say you're wrong, but I don't recall the Wing Zero's buster rifle ever producing any noticeable recoil in Gundam Wing. At all. Like I said though, it's been a while since I've seen the show, so I'm just going on what I can remember. However, ignoring the specs and technical data and just going by the eye test, it always appeared to me that the damage the Wing Zero sustained while firing at the bunker was caused by severe strain on the reactor because of the buster rifle. I always assumed that Heero had the rifle on some kind of super-high output setting which the reactor was not built to sustain. But then again, I could be totally wrong. That's just what I always though since the first time I saw the movie.

And yes, I believe the Tallgeese III did overheat after firing it's mega rifle. Remember Zechs just floating there in the atmosphere waiting for Noin to pick him up? It's because his MS was inoperable due to overheating.

You can't forget that the recoil was being offset by Wing Gundam Zero's powerful thrusters to keep itself from being propelled backwards into the air too. But each time it fires, you can see it jerking back slightly before being halted by its thrusters, struggling to keep it stable and accurate. Also, we've seen the Twin Buster Rifle used in even larger-looking blasts more often (anime-wise) than not and there was never any problem sustained with it.

And I don't recall Zechs simply waiting in space either. Just the Tallgeese III setting down under its own power. Then again, it's been a while since I've watched Endless Waltz or it may have been a different version. Then again AGAIN, the Tallgeese III also wasn't built for atmospheric re-entry (not built of Gundanium after all) either nor did it show itself with any sort of equipment to assist in such a maneuver either, so he'd still have to wait for someone to pick him up in a carrier that can perform atmospheric re-entry itself.

[Arsarcana]

I think it was one of the OVA ending sequences where we see TGIII setting down under its own power. However, there's no particular indication that it descended all the way from orbit by itself. We know the Serpents descended most of the way in carriers (it's even a plot point), then were airdropped the rest of the way and they were made from a material that's supposed to be pretty close to Gundanium. There's absolutely no reason to assume Zechs didn't get to Earth in the exact same way and every reason to assume he did.

As for overheating, there is also nothing in the OVA or movie that indicates this was a problem and as far as I'm aware, there's no supplimental information suggesting any such problem with the weapon. Yes, Zechs sat around in orbit after firing the cannon: He was waiting for Noin to pick him up so he could get down to Earth in one piece.

[Stampede89]

The TG3 has no means of atmospheric reentry like the gundams. This is why Noin came to pick him up. Also, the Megacannon is a self contained weapon with its own generator, similar in a sense to Wing's buster rifle.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Well, I do recall a soldier mentioning "atmosphere shielding devices" or something that made them unable to fight back against Zechs in the Tallgeese III when he attacked them and asking if they should remove them, though they were probably just talking about the parachute packs and such we see them dropping down with (and similar to what Altron had, if not the same thing given Wu Fei was fighting on their side at the time).

[Stampede89]

Well, I do recall a soldier mentioning "atmosphere shielding devices" or something that made them unable to fight back against Zechs in the Tallgeese III when he attacked them and asking if they should remove them, though they were probably just talking about the parachute packs and such we see them dropping down with (and similar to what Altron had, if not the same thing given Wu Fei was fighting on their side at the time).

I think it's more of device allowing the serpent suits to perform atmospheric reentry on their own since the Neo-Titanium isn't capable of withstanding the temperatures that Gundanium can.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

All I could think of, besides the parachutes, would be something akin to the ballute system used in UC, but I don't recall seeing anything that bulky mounted on any of the Serpents (they do show some couple-second shots of them being destroyed inside carriers that were destroyed by Zechs) and if they did have something that enabled them to enter the atmosphere on their own, then I wouldn't see the need for the carriers either as those were, as Zechs showed, slow and very vulnerable targets that allowed him to destroy portions of their forces with each carrier destroyed.

[Stampede89]

That's true, though, the RX-78 used saran wrap to enter the atmosphere. The shielding devices could simply not have been animated, it certainly wouldn't be the first time something like that has happened. The use of the carriers is to transport them however many miles they needed to go while the shielding devices could be used in case of an emergency. The appearance of Zechs though was completely unexpected so it comes as no surprise that he was able to destroy so many of them.

[InjuredPelican]

If I remember correctly, wasn't Wing Zero being hit by the Serpents below as well? All of thos gatling gun shots seemed to do quite a bit of damage, so i don't think the buster Rifle was wholly responsible for Zero's destruction.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Yeah, he was getting shot at, but from what they showed, it wasn't like how Duo was and getting constantly and endless pelted by shells. If anything, only a few shells actually hit and they were more glancing blows that bounced off pretty harmlessly (even moreso since it's Gundanium and not simply Titanium like a Leo). They didn't even show him getting those few hits until the 3rd and final shot came around, at which point, Zero was already heavily damaged with losing its left arm and such.

[Dark Duel]

If I remember correctly, wasn't Wing Zero being hit by the Serpents below as well? All of thos gatling gun shots seemed to do quite a bit of damage, so i don't think the buster Rifle was wholly responsible for Zero's destruction.

I recently watched EW and I think you are correct - on top of the damage already sustained against Altron, he was floating in midair getting shot at by the handful of Serpents that were guarding the bunker.

[InjuredPelican]

If I remember correctly, wasn't Wing Zero being hit by the Serpents below as well? All of thos gatling gun shots seemed to do quite a bit of damage, so i don't think the buster Rifle was wholly responsible for Zero's destruction.

I recently watched EW and I think you are correct - on top of the damage already sustained against Altron, he was floating in midair getting shot at by the handful of Serpents that were guarding the bunker.

Though its a bit off topic, I must mention that's one of my favorite scenes from all of Wing. It's pretty much Zero's "Last shooting" moment, a Gundam's defiance in battle till the end, even when it's falling apart around the pilot. Just epic.

[Mechfanx0000]

We're all talking about how powerful the twin Buster rifle is So maybe someone can explain this to me

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kSXTGztiNRQ

Aim is accurate to100th of a unit

Someone even said how Its limiter was off