Zero's Twin Buster Rifle's capabilities?

[Bord]

We know it's essentially two, identical Buster Rifles that can be fired in different modes. However, how come we've never seen one separate rifle fire a large blast similar to the Wing Gundam's original rifle. Does it need to be combined to create a similar powerful blast or can just one rifle do it? We saw that infamous spinning twin buster rifle move and although its pretty devastating, the beams dont seem as large enough as the Wing Gundam's or the combined buster rifle shot.

Also why didn't Heero shoot the WHOLE Libra battleship in the first place? He could've, or is the TBR only able to destroy a section of Libra, not all of it?

[Dendrobium Stamen]

Near as I can tell, the TBR relies on synergy to produce the rather spectacular effects the combined mode displays when firing at full blast. It's been about a year since I watched Wing, but as I recall blasts from the separate buster rifles match or exceed most other MS-carried beam weapons in the After Colony era, but they never produce a shot to match Wing's rifle.

As such, my guess would be that it's a "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts" kind of situation. For sake of example (and to avoid going into "facts" as far as power outputs go ), let's assume each buster rifle by itself can produce a beam with an output of 100mw. That's 200mw when each fires alone. But, combine their power supplies, and you produce a beam of 400mw - synergy.

It's like the Twin Drive System, in a sense. As I once noted elsewhere, if we assume a squaring of power output, even using arbitrary numbers, the results are pretty staggering!

So for my two pence, that's how Wing Zero's rifle gets such results.

...As for why it didn't blast Libra to bits much much sooner - that wasn't Heero's objective. He probably could have blasted Zechs and his doom-fortress-diamond-ship to bits, but it wasn't necessary, so he didn't. Bit of a cop-out, but there you go. Oops?

[Arsarcana]

Actually, the halves of the TBR frequently exhibit an output superior to the original Buster Rifle. You know that signature move where Wing Zero splits the rifle and then spins while firing a continuous beam from each rifle (which SRW and G Gen have dubbed the Rolling Buster Rifle)? We see those beams last longer than shots from Wing's rifle and take out more suits in the process than any one shot Wing made.

[Mu La Flaga]

It may not have been Heero's objective to blast it to pieces at first, but after making sure Relena was alright he did kind of do that with that section of Libra.
But considering how much firepower Wing Zero holds I kind of am wondering why he held back from damaging the space battleship Libra sooner rather then later.

[Amadi Akintunde]

But considering how much firepower Wing Zero holds I kind of am wondering why he held back from damaging the space battleship Libra sooner rather then later.

I think that had to do with Heero's 'conversation' with Wing Zero on Peacemillion, if I recall correctly. Zero's eyes flashed and then Heero went on about "Yeah, you're right Zero. At this point there's no way we can beat Zechs."

Or something along those lines. That line is somewhat fuzzy in my head but it was something like that. I think it had something to do with what Zero told Heero.

[Mu La Flaga]

That little moment is probably refering to Heero typing to it and Zero tends to respond that way via Zero system evaluating all the combat data.
But I'm not sure if Zero did consider all possible outcomes, I mean Wufei tried a solo assualt on Libra but he never had any significant firepower.

All that happened was his Gundam Altron got badly damaged to the point the cockpit's oxygen supply was leaking out.

So it's not to say the same thing with Wing Zero would happen, a full charged blast could do the damage equivalent to destroy an AC era colony, that much damaged would be alot to Libra.

[CidHighwind]

Well, even if the power output of the WZ's rifle halves do NOT exceed the power of Wing's Buster Rifle, they both still have one advantage: they can fire more than three shots, rapidly, even.

[crashlegacy14]

Might one consider that those colony destroying twin buster blasts be extremely taking on the cannons? Imagine if even there's just a percent chance of such a hi-powered blast to cause damage to the weapons systems or zero itself. Would Heero want to risk causing damage and possibly malfunctions to his weapon or mobile suit if he wasn't sure how much longer the battle would last? after all if the buster rifle craps out on him all the Zero has left for ranged weapons are those torso mounted rotatory cannons.

[Iruga]

I was always under the impression that the individual buster rifles are just as powerful as the buster rifle on the Wing Gundam. That being said, i have always theorised that when combined neither rifle can fire a full powered shot, due to the close proximity to each other. How ever i believe this also means when combined, to produce a shot on the same level as a full power shot of a single rifle on the Wing Gundam each individual rifle only needs to charge 50% each which would allow you to charge and fire in half the time.

[crashlegacy14]

except we see the doubled rifle firing some rather large blasts that seemed to exceed wings original buster in sheer volume.

another thing to consider is that just because a beam isn't as overall as large as wing's single fire perhaps the output is being used for more concentrated shots to give it better penetration versus planet defensors.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Well, firing such a big shot must put a strain on the reactor, for one. Don't want to overload your whole power supply. I mean, to charge the capacitors in the rifle for that, you'd have to increase output past the safe limit, I'd assume.

Secondarily, you'd overload your capacitors, which will screw the rifle. Then, there's the issue of the conduits that power the rifle, within the mobile suit, slagging. There's also the issue of barrel damage.

I think the reason he didn't is because he felt it was too risky a maneuver at the time.

[Arsarcana]

You're assuming the rifle draws on the reactor on a per-shot basis. Wing's rifle had enough stored charge for three shots at full power (unlike the TBR, Wing's rifle also had no setting between Off and High) and can fire those shots fairly quickly. We know WZ can fire the TBR three times at full output within a minute so it's probably also got enough stored charge to not need to draw on the reactor with each shot. Yeah, the one time WZ did that it wrecked itself but it had also just fallen through the atmosphere and crash-landed in the ocean and it was in the blast area of all three shots so it wasn't likely that it was the rapid firing or the output that was the problem.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Well, I meant for a large shot, it has to overcharge the rifle's capacitors.

The reason it has them is so it can have a supply of energy ready at a moment's notice, and keep reactor strain down. The reactor can just constantly charge the caps at a slow rate, instead of requiring a large burst of energy from it every time a shot is fired.

However, the energy STILL has to get from the reactor to the rifle. To do that, you need conduits in the arm. These are stated to exist in almost every, single Gundam series. Well, as with all conductors, resistance is still an issue, and resistance results in heat. Further, the more energy you stuff in a capacitor, the hotter it gets. Also, the more energy you stuff in a capacitor, the more you'll need to keep charging it. The more energy, the hotter your resistors and capacitors.

I would assume the systems could take a few such strains, but repeated use would definitely damage the structure of the arm conduits and the rifle capacitors. The rifle's designed stress level is much safer, because it is specifically designed to handle that much stress, safely, and efficiently. The mobile suit was designed with a certain output in mind, and so was the rifle. That's why Wing Zero can just stand there and charge and shoot, and charge and shoot, and charge and shoot all day long, but we only see crazy stuff every once in a while, at least from my assumed perspective in the engineering of the mobile suit.

[Stampede89]

You are assuming that the TBR relies on wing zero's main reactor. Some of us think that each one of the rifles has its own reactor contained inside of them.

Plus, based on wing's buster rifle diagram, capacitors seem to be non-existent, being more or less replaced by energy packs which act more like batteries than capacitors.

[SchizophrenicMC]

I assume that because conventionally, beam weapons rely on a mobile suit's power supply. It's been too long since I watched Wing or Endless Waltz for me to remember half the details, so I apologize if I make mistaken statements. These are all just technological assumptions, based on what I know about other mobile suits and assume to be true for most suits, WZ included.

Batteries are ill-suited to storing and releasing energy quickly. They're much better for slow-burn, low-EMF applications. Given, they can store electricity for much longer periods of time, but in a directed-energy weapon, where you need to quickly gather energy and even more quickly release it, a battery would be nigh upon useless. That is, unless it was the source of power FOR a capacitor. The battery would charge the capacitor, the capacitor would supply the power to the rifle's energy-direction systems (beam emitter, etc), and the battery could be charged at a later time.

Now, if there are no capacitors in the TBR's design, I'm stumped.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

You're assuming the rifle draws on the reactor on a per-shot basis. Wing's rifle had enough stored charge for three shots at full power (unlike the TBR, Wing's rifle also had no setting between Off and High) and can fire those shots fairly quickly. We know WZ can fire the TBR three times at full output within a minute so it's probably also got enough stored charge to not need to draw on the reactor with each shot. Yeah, the one time WZ did that it wrecked itself but it had also just fallen through the atmosphere and crash-landed in the ocean and it was in the blast area of all three shots so it wasn't likely that it was the rapid firing or the output that was the problem.

Not to mention the damage it took from fighting Altron.

Though, Endless Waltz seemed to slightly downgrade the Gundams overall so they didn't seem nearly as invincible (offensively and/or defensively) as they appeared like the anime series made them out to be. Just look at the final blast at Libra in both; Wing Gundam Zero got through it with little to no visible damage from going through the atmosphere, even after fighting Epyon, in the anime series, yet Endless Waltz clearly shows it with more damage building up as it fell before unleashing its blast.

[Stampede89]

Based off of the diagrams, there is nothing there that points to a capacitor at all. Instead, it seems as if the energy is generated as soon as the trigger is pulled. Note that I am basing this off of Wing Gundam's buster rifle from the tech manual as it is essentially the same weapon just without the limits.

Here is said diagram: http://aboutgundamwing.com/Mecha/busterrifle.jpg

From what I can tell, the energy pack supplies the power to the beam generator which produces these powerful shots. The only difference is that the TBR has no limits which means that either it gets its energy from Wing Zero's reactor (making it ridiculously power efficient based on its small reactor) or there are reactors within the rifles themselves.

Tallgeese 3 seems to have a reactor for its mega cannon as shown here: http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/endles ... cannon.jpg

So the TBR having reactors doesn't seem as far fetched and the capacitor issue wouldn't apply here. Also, we are trying to understand technology that doesn't exist and attempting to apply real work logic to it is rather difficult.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Based off of the diagrams, there is nothing there that points to a capacitor at all. Instead, it seems as if the energy is generated as soon as the trigger is pulled. Note that I am basing this off of Wing Gundam's buster rifle from the tech manual as it is essentially the same weapon just without the limits.

Here is said diagram: http://aboutgundamwing.com/Mecha/busterrifle.jpg

From what I can tell, the energy pack supplies the power to the beam generator which produces these powerful shots. The only difference is that the TBR has no limits which means that either it gets its energy from Wing Zero's reactor (making it ridiculously power efficient based on its small reactor) or there are reactors within the rifles themselves.

Tallgeese 3 seems to have a reactor for its mega cannon as shown here: http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/endles ... cannon.jpg

So the TBR having reactors doesn't seem as far fetched and the capacitor issue wouldn't apply here. Also, we are trying to understand technology that doesn't exist and attempting to apply real work logic to it is rather difficult.

Even a Minovsky-Lonesco Compact is not that small. Further, that would make the weapon ridiculously expensive and inefficient, because it would constantly have to react the fuel, only for it to be used in small bursts.

What seems to be a reactor there is more likely some other form of power supply.

Given, all of this is based on UC and CE knowledge and commonality, and I don't remember half of anything in Wing anymore, but I'm saying realistically, even considering that it's about giant kriffin' robots, I can't see that working.

The terms "Energy Pack" and "Energy Unit" are quite ambiguous, though. Neither of them says "battery" or "reactor", and it's possible either could mean either, or "capacitor". Not entirely sure how "clip" means "handle", for that matter.

In any case, the Gundam has a larger reactor than you could fit in the rifle, and that means it can generate more power (I can't think of any way a small reactor could out-generate a large one). After considering the power needs of the mobile suit, you could allocate a very large portion of that power to the rifles.

Anyway, I've given my 2 cents, and I don't wish to pay my remaining $1.03, so I'll leave it at that.

[Stampede89]

From what I have seen, AC tends to be much further along in terms of technology than either UC or CE so it wouldn't be surprising if they could shrink a reactor to that small size. Plus, we are talking about fusion reactors so who knows how small you could make them.

As for expense, all I can say is Gundanium. That is expensive on a massive level, plus, we never really see those suits refuel.

Lastly, Vayeate's backpack is a reactor combined with a particle accelerator. Where is the refueling in that?

Why does it seem like everytime someone asks a question, more questions are raised but never answered? Argh!

[SchizophrenicMC]

Not that I'm an expert on nuclear fusion, but wouldn't a lot of highly-compressed hydrogen or He-3 be able to be stored and gradually fused? For that matter, waste products of certain types of fusion can be used for further fusion reactions, as I recall.

In any case, refueling is not the most important aspect of a Gundam anime. (Especially since they're so character-driven lately), so it's likely, if it happens very often, it's just not shown.

Gundanium, isn't that just a titanium-based alloy? I don't see why the armor would be the most expensive component. (Unless it was some super-armor like in SEED)

Even with technology further on, the sheer amount of energy we see released by the rifles outperforms my expectations of any power device that small. I guess I'll never figure this one out, though, in a way that makes everyone happy. (Or, well, anyone but me, at least)