The Macross Valkyrie Thread

The future is now. This is the place for mecha and science.
Post Reply
User avatar
Seto Kaiba
Posts: 2337
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:18 pm
Contact:

Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

False Prophet wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2024 2:20 am So had humanity never encountered the Vajra, they'd never have the need to create the 5th gen?
According to Macross Frontier's backstory materials, yes.

The New UN Government and New UN Forces kicked off development of a 5th Generation main Variable Fighter shortly after making first contact with the Vajra in 2040. We don't know the specifics, but it seems that it did not go well and Humanity began planning for a possible war with the Vajra. The military was concerned that the 4th Generation prototypes in final testing at that time wouldn't have the performance needed to fight the Vajra on even footing, so they commenced development of something that could match the Vajra's guesstimated capabilities.

Had that first contact event never happened, development of the 5th Generation would likely have started later and proceeded very differently... but it does seem likely that Inertia Store Converter technology would still have been a part of it given what happened with the VF-19 and VF-22's adoption by the NUNS.


False Prophet wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2024 2:20 am And by that same token, just how much did the conflicts with groups like Latence and Vindirance influenced the 4th gen?
By the time those groups emerged into open conflict, the 4th Generation was well-established. Even the VF-171 was already in service before those groups really started going at it.

What drove the 4th Generation's requirements were the little brushfire conflicts against anti-government groups and terrorist organizations who were for whatever reason opposed to the New UN Government.
The Macross Mecha Manual
Yes, we're working on updates...
Mafty
Posts: 1222
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:43 am

Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Speaking of brushfire conflicts. How big was the fight at the Beginning of Macross Plus?

The rogue Zentradi had customized Battle Suits, were they a large group like Latence and Vindirance? Or a small rebel movement?
User avatar
Seto Kaiba
Posts: 2337
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:18 pm
Contact:

Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Mafty wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2024 10:19 am Speaking of brushfire conflicts. How big was the fight at the Beginning of Macross Plus?

The rogue Zentradi had customized Battle Suits, were they a large group like Latence and Vindirance? Or a small rebel movement?
Not customized, just a different type than usual.

Macross Chronicle is one of the few sources to discuss it at all, and their coverage presents its origins as unclear. They present two possibilities for its origin: that it was either a less common older model left over from the Protoculture's civil war that is not in widespread use anymore (like the Glaug) or that it was an original development by rogue Zentradi from an emigrant planet. Personally, I'm inclined to suspect the former case is true, given that humanity's efforts to improve Zentradi Forces designs tend to focus on survivability not armament and tend to be modifications of existing designs not new ones (e.g. the Regult types, Super Glaug, Queadluun-Rhea).

Going back to Macross Chronicle for the same reason above, the battle at the start of Macross Plus's OVA edition is said to be a mission to suppress Zentradi malcontents in a remote region of space. That alone makes it likely that it was a minor skirmish. That conflict is never mentioned again at any point in the OVA or any subsequent work either, which IMO also makes it likely it was a very small, very minor engagement. Macross Chronicle doesn't even say where it occured. It's only mentioned in passing in connection with Isamu's commander having him transferred to the New Edwards Test Flight Center because of his chronic rulebreaking.
The Macross Mecha Manual
Yes, we're working on updates...
False Prophet
Posts: 973
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 7:40 am

Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Do the NUN or the colonies have a standing ground army? If only for occupation, while the Valkyries and battlesuits & battle pods do all the fighting? How will an army even look like then?

And I imagine modern VF can fight on the ground pretty well with just their battroid mode, but what if they want to play the role of bombing and air support like the air forces we have now? What is the state of air-to-ground weaponry by the time Frontier rolls around?
User avatar
Seto Kaiba
Posts: 2337
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:18 pm
Contact:

Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

False Prophet wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 5:17 am Do the NUN or the colonies have a standing ground army? If only for occupation, while the Valkyries and battlesuits & battle pods do all the fighting? How will an army even look like then?
We have seen infantry in several Macross titles including Macross Plus, Macross 7, and Macross Frontier.

It's often not entirely clear which branch of the armed services they belong to, since in reality multiple branches besides the Army have infantry that they deploy for various purposes. The line art often does not draw any distinction at all, referring to the design as "Unified Forces soldier" or similar.

We see them operating mainly as a security force, protecting access to military bases and other secure areas. The ones in Frontier are shown with wheeled tanks or tank destroyers and Destroids operating as part of the internal defense of emigrant ships. (The tanks are based on the B1 Centauro tank destoyer used by Italy.)

The only sequel that I know of where the Army as a branch explicitly appears is Macross II, where we see the air defenses of Macross City are commanded by a UN Army officer.



False Prophet wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 5:17 am And I imagine modern VF can fight on the ground pretty well with just their battroid mode, but what if they want to play the role of bombing and air support like the air forces we have now? What is the state of air-to-ground weaponry by the time Frontier rolls around?
That VFs can (and do) operate in attacker or light bomber roles has been a thing since the earliest incarnations of the specs.

In fact, the majority of the compatible weapons described for the VF-1 in the oldest technical writeups are modern NATO weapons like the Mark 82, Mark 83, and Mark 84 bombs, GBU-8, GBU-15, and GBU-23 guided bombs, the CBU-24 and CBU-49 cluster bombs, and the AGM-65 Maverick and AGM-88 HARM.

In Macross Zero, we see that the SV-51 was able to deploy FAE bombs and did so against the island of Mayan.

There were at least two Variable aircraft designed for attacker and light-duty bomber roles starting in the 2nd Generation with the VF-3000B (called the Bomber Valkyrie) and the VBR-2.

The one perhaps most notable for the role is the VA-3 Invader, which is shown pulling ground attack and light bomber duties in several Macross official setting games. There is also mention of a fighter-bomber variant of the VF-171 (the VB-171) which does not appear in animation. Unofficial/pseudocanon designs for bomber versions of the VF-22 also exist, which have been a very popular item since they match the proposed but never made FB-22 Raptor.

We haven't seen any VFs kitted out for bomber or ground attacker duty in Macross Frontier and later works, unless you count Wright Immelmann's VF-22S which was used to carry and deploy a single dimensional warhead in Macross Delta. So unfortunately we don't know much about what the New UN Forces have in the way of air-to-ground munitions officially. Master File suggests that there are air-to-ground versions of a number of popular missile types, but nothing you'd recognize as a conventional guided or unguided bomb. We do very briefly see VA-3s deploying bombs that look very similar to the US's Mark 83 low drag unguided bomb in the opening of Macross VF-X2, but we have no information about them.
The Macross Mecha Manual
Yes, we're working on updates...
False Prophet
Posts: 973
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 7:40 am

Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

On that topic, we've seen aircraft carriers and submarines in Zero and Macross, but how would them look like when VF get more advance? Like, how does anti-submarine warfare with VF look like? Do aircraft carriers still have catapults? Can something like the Macross Quarter run on water?
User avatar
Seto Kaiba
Posts: 2337
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:18 pm
Contact:

Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

False Prophet wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2024 2:02 am On that topic, we've seen aircraft carriers and submarines in Zero and Macross, but how would them look like when VF get more advance?
In practice, it wasn't improvements in VFs that drove changes to the design of aircraft carriers in Macross.

After the First Space War, Humanity came to understand that the kind of classic alien invasion scenario that the Earth Unification Government and its armed forces had so extensively prepared for in the 2000s just wasn't realistic. The Zentradi and Supervision Army had no interest in conquering the surfaces of planets for their resources when they had the industrial might of the automated factory satellite networks behind them. Earth's surface-focused defense strategy was fundamentally wrong for protecting the planet from a future attack, and that forced the New Unification Government that was formed in the aftermath of the war to radically rethink the entire concept of planetary defense and prioritize space-based defenses.

Dedicated surface-based aircraft carriers like the Asuka II-type or Prometheus-type were simply obsolete. The new space-focused defense strategy that was built around the realities of war in the greater galaxy saw a complete shift to space carriers. Production ofARMD-class space carriers resumed and the improved ARMD II-class (the movie ARMD) was developed and became the standard in the 2010s and 2020s. A large number of next-generation designs were developed in the 2020s and early 2030s for the third generation of emigrant fleets like the Battle-class Macross supercarrier, the Uraga-class escort battle carrier, and Guantanamo-class Advanced ARMD that simultaneously debuted in the TV series Macross 7 and the OVA Macross Plus. Several derivatives and smaller specialist carriers appeared in other titles like the Saratoga II-type stealth carrier from Macross VF-X2, the Valhalla III-type submersible assault carrier from Macross Digital Mission VF-X, and Northampton-class Gefion-type light carrier from Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy.

All of these new designs are spacecraft, though many can operate in atmosphere using gravity control flight and a few like the Battle-class, the Uraga-class, etc. can land in water and operate like a conventional Navy warship.

False Prophet wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2024 2:02 am Like, how does anti-submarine warfare with VF look like?
The one time we've seen it - Macross VF-X2 - anti-submarine warfare took the form of sending a Variable Attacker specialized for underwater operations to dive underwater and attack them directly. (The VA-3M Invader.)

Since warfare is almost exclusively space-based, submarines are a rare concern and the incident in question was a terrorism-related attack rather than a proper armed conflict.

False Prophet wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2024 2:02 am Do aircraft carriers still have catapults?
Yes. Older carriers used in the Unification Wars (c.2000-2008) used steam catapults, and some post-First Space War carriers did still use a regular electromagnetic catapult like those of state-of-the-art modern aircraft carriers.

By the 2030s, the standard is the Linear Catapult. It has no moving parts, and accelerates the VF up to speed using pure electromagnetic force like a coilgun rather than pulling it up to speed using a mechanical connector propelled by a steam piston or electric motor. Macross Frontier put a lot of effort into animating these, with the yellow holographic guide markers lighting up around the active catapult when a fighter is preparing to launch.

False Prophet wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2024 2:02 am Can something like the Macross Quarter run on water?
Even if it's not buoyant enough to float like a normal boat, it can use gravity control to modify its mass enough to float or at least hover in the water.
The Macross Mecha Manual
Yes, we're working on updates...
Post Reply