The state of the Noa Family after Hathaway's Flash?

[Changa]

Hello, honored elders (and yes, Imma keep calling you all that, you know who you are), I return with more questions!

This time, not about the end of the Gryps War, but about the end of one Hathaway Noa. Or, more particularly, how his family reacted to it. Because I read what happen to Mafty, and DAMN, Bright just could not catch a break. But, the wiki doesn't really talk about how the Noas felt after the fact of his death, or how Bright himself felt upon realizing who he had ordered to be shot.

Like, this is the man who was part of the reason thrice-over, the Federation was still going by that point-- dying, yes, as it had been since 0083, but still going. I mean, surely there's a source going into how he felt about all that?

[Mafty]

The Novel hasn't been officially translated, however there has been discussion about it a few years ago.

Spoiler

Apparently the novel never actually reveals what happens to the Noa family following the end of the rebellion; though its worth noting that Kenneth did actually try to keep the reality of the situation from the Noa family, only for the Federation to to utilize this for propaganda purposes. Often in earlier Tomino works characters dropped out of the narrative in a tragic circumstance. For example after Katz death in Zeta and Hayato's in ZZ we never see the Kobayashi Family again (save for a brief came in Unicorn). It was only in a newly released spin off manga do we actually see them as Kikka talks with Frau and Letz before interviewing other OYW survivors (yes I know manga isn't canon , but it's still probably the only time we'll ever see them again). I do hope that the Hathway film series actually fixes this and focuses more upon the issues that come in the aftermath.

[Seto Kaiba]

This time, not about the end of the Gryps War, but about the end of one Hathaway Noa. Or, more particularly, how his family reacted to it. Because I read what happen to Mafty, and DAMN, Bright just could not catch a break. But, the wiki doesn't really talk about how the Noas felt after the fact of his death, or how Bright himself felt upon realizing who he had ordered to be shot.

Like, this is the man who was part of the reason thrice-over, the Federation was still going by that point-- dying, yes, as it had been since 0083, but still going. I mean, surely there's a source going into how he felt about all that?

It's been a dog's age since I read Hathaway's Flash and as others have pointed out my recollection of it is rather spotty, probably not helped by my Japanese not being nearly as good back then as it is now. So I'll be deferring a bit to the Japanese-language wikis.

As Mafty said, there's not much detail. After the decision to execute Mufti Nabil Erin without trial came down the chain of command, Kenneth Sleg appealed to his commanding officer to carry it out before Bright assumed command of the base so that he wouldn't have to learn that his son was Mufti or carry out the death sentence himself. Bright only learned about it later, when the general who'd granted Kenneth's request later leaked falsifed information to the media claiming Bright had done the deed himself and that Hathaway had met his end gracefully and full of remorse over what he'd done. His state of mind afterward learning that isn't discussed, though the wiki mentions he tried to resign his commission with an eye towards becoming a politician but wasn't permitted to do so.

[Deacon Blues]

His state of mind afterward learning that isn't discussed, though the wiki mentions he tried to resign his commission with an eye towards becoming a politician but wasn't permitted to do so.

Not sure which Wiki you're citing, but that's not entirely accurate. He mulls over becoming a politician, but he isn't denied the ability to do so. Here's an excerpt of my translation of Chapter.16 Beauce Londenion:

　“To Earth? When?"
　"Early morning, the day after tomorrow."
　Mirai Yashima was taken aback by her husband Bright Noa's words.
　"But we were planning to look at a shop in New Hampshire that day, weren't we?"
　"True, but... can't we go tomorrow instead?"
　"Did you really submit your resignation to the military?"
　"They seemed to accept it, considering my extensive combat experience as a captain. After all, there aren't many captains in Londenion who have actually fought on Earth... But they promised me that I could retire after this operation is completed."
　"You must be joking..."
　Mirai held her tongue and took Bright's hand instead.
　"Can you try asking the real estate agent if they can show us the shop tomorrow?"
　"But we agreed on the day after tomorrow for their sake."
　As she said this, Mirai began pressing the phone's buttons. Her quick reflexes in situations like this harkened back to her days as the helmsman of the White Base.
　She and Bright were married because of their bond as comrades in arms.
　Although neither had yet entered middle age, their early military careers had given Bright more than enough combat experience.
　That's why, in the aftermath of Char's Rebellion, he contemplated retirement and submitted his request about six months ago.
　Some veterans ventured into politics, but for those like Bright, who had endured actual combat since their reserve days, many opted for retirement if they could survive the minimum period required for their pension.
　The mental exhaustion was relentless.
　One might say they aged prematurely.
　In Bright's case, witnessing the deaths of his men weighed heavily on him.
　He did consider that the duty of experienced people was to change society itself to prevent situations like war from happening again.
　However, Bright felt drained of the energy required to become a politician.
　When on the front line, be it in the military or as a bureaucrat, one encounters the inherent issues within organizations.
　With humanity's current capabilities, reforming the detrimental habits birthed by organizations appeared insurmountable.
　Even a saint would find it difficult to change the individual discrepancies that naturally arose within an organization created by ordinary people.
　Bright concluded that the only solution to the bad habits of organizations was for everyone to become pure and incorruptible.
　This was also the foundation that gave rise to the Newtype ideology.
　Bright was a man who had come to this realization amidst circumstances directly linked to the deaths of his men.
　With no alternatives, Bright resolved to attempt something new.
　For a while, they would manage a quaint restaurant and, as ordinary people, contemplate their future within the humdrum world.
　"..."
　Bright sank into the sofa, smirking at the sight of Mirai with the telephone receiver, bowing her head. He couldn't help but think her Japanese heritage contributed to such unnecessary gestures.
　During his time managing their restaurant, his outlook might shift, and he might even dabble in politics. If that time came, he would likely espouse the lofty ideal that humanity must evolve into Newtypes, like a second coming of Zeon Deikun.
　It would be regarded as idealistic foolishness, and it might not garner votes in an election.
　However, in Bright's case, if he didn't do something like that, he feared that everything he had learned in the wars in space would go to waste.
　He resolved to begin with civilian life to acquire the necessary methods and capabilities.
　As for his chosen profession, he sought a building for his restaurant, a venture that addressed the basic human needs of food, clothing, and shelter.

[Seto Kaiba]

Not sure which Wiki you're citing, but that's not entirely accurate. He mulls over becoming a politician, but he isn't denied the ability to do so. Here's an excerpt of my translation of Chapter.16 Beauce Londenion:

Yeah, I'm not 100% certain where they sourced this from... but the statement is that Bright's resignation was ultimately not accepted, and presents a rumor that the Federation is doing so in order to make it easy to detain Bright in the event that he comes out in support of Newtypes or there's another uprising in the military.

[Deacon Blues]

The only accurate thing is that his resignation was not accepted. Full stop. If you're trying to cute from the Japanese wikipedia entry on Bright (note the absence of citations to back up claims in that part of the page), I'd take it with a grain of salt. I mean, it does say "while the exact reasons are mere speculation, it is rumored...." But, that clearly doesn't jive at all with what I cited above, so go figure. I'm thinking they're inferring Bright's internal thoughts as being the reason, but considering how Bright goes about it, it doesn't make much sense. Earlier convos in the novel (and manga) have characters commenting on how Bright should go into politics, but Hathaway doesn't see dear old dad being able to do that considering how corrupt the system is (hence his fight).

[Seto Kaiba]

The only accurate thing is that his resignation was not accepted. Full stop. If you're trying to cute from the Japanese wikipedia entry on Bright (note the absence of citations to back up claims in that part of the page), I'd take it with a grain of salt.

I found the same on a few different fan wikis... though it may be the same contributor since the wording is almost exactly the same.

's it just me, or do the Gundam fandom's fan-maintained reference sites all kinda... suck?

[Deacon Blues]

The only accurate thing is that his resignation was not accepted. Full stop. If you're trying to cute from the Japanese wikipedia entry on Bright (note the absence of citations to back up claims in that part of the page), I'd take it with a grain of salt.

I found the same on a few different fan wikis... though it may be the same contributor since the wording is almost exactly the same.

's it just me, or do the Gundam fandom's fan-maintained reference sites all kinda... suck?

Hey! Something we agree on!

It is rare for the Japanese Wikipedia to have errors since they're vetted so much closer than others, but they are rare and do slip through. Some of the weirder offshoots of are pretty copy/paste, which is... disturbing.

That's why some of us are going to be attempting at launching a replacement/alternative to the Wiki sometime in the future. At least there will be heavily cited references instead of willy-nilly info all slapdash in articles like the current setup (or my favorite, citations to material that just doesn't exist where they MTL'd from!)

[Kuruni]

It is rare for the Japanese Wikipedia to have errors since they're vetted so much closer than others, but they are rare and do slip through.

Things got worse ever since Japanese Agriculture Ministry withdrawed their support...

[Chris]

It is rare for the Japanese Wikipedia to have errors since they're vetted so much closer than others, but they are rare and do slip through.

Things got worse ever since Japanese Agriculture Ministry withdrawed their support...

I appreciate this old, deep cut reference.

[DragoMaster009]

It is rare for the Japanese Wikipedia to have errors since they're vetted so much closer than others, but they are rare and do slip through.

Things got worse ever since Japanese Agriculture Ministry withdrawed their support...

...dare I ask what happened on that front?

[Mafty]

I think someone who worked in the Agriculture Ministry ended up loosing their job, due to spending more time adding entries to the Wiki, than working.

[Kuruni]

...dare I ask what happened on that front?

Here, BBC article from 15 years ago.

[Seto Kaiba]

Hey! Something we agree on!

It is rare for the Japanese Wikipedia to have errors since they're vetted so much closer than others, but they are rare and do slip through. Some of the weirder offshoots of are pretty copy/paste, which is... disturbing.

Yeah, I've not seen one that went this wide of the mark in a while... it reminds me of one of the bad actors on Japanese mecha wikis who does a lot of wiki vandalism regarding Macross, Southern Cross, and MOSPEADA. We've caught that one "contributor" setting up self-referential footnote loops in an attempt to make their insertion of their own unique interpretations and headcanon seem official.

That's why some of us are going to be attempting at launching a replacement/alternative to the Wiki sometime in the future. At least there will be heavily cited references instead of willy-nilly info all slapdash in articles like the current setup (or my favorite, citations to material that just doesn't exist where they MTL'd from!)

Ah, you're doing for Gundam what I'm working on for Macross. Best of luck, that's a heavy burden to take on.

[False Prophet]

Not sure which Wiki you're citing, but that's not entirely accurate. He mulls over becoming a politician, but he isn't denied the ability to do so. Here's an excerpt of my translation of Chapter.16 Beauce Londenion:

　“To Earth? When?"
　"Early morning, the day after tomorrow."
　Mirai Yashima was taken aback by her husband Bright Noa's words.
　"But we were planning to look at a shop in New Hampshire that day, weren't we?"
　"True, but... can't we go tomorrow instead?"
　"Did you really submit your resignation to the military?"
　"They seemed to accept it, considering my extensive combat experience as a captain. After all, there aren't many captains in Londenion who have actually fought on Earth... But they promised me that I could retire after this operation is completed."
　"You must be joking..."
　Mirai held her tongue and took Bright's hand instead.
　"Can you try asking the real estate agent if they can show us the shop tomorrow?"
　"But we agreed on the day after tomorrow for their sake."
　As she said this, Mirai began pressing the phone's buttons. Her quick reflexes in situations like this harkened back to her days as the helmsman of the White Base.
　She and Bright were married because of their bond as comrades in arms.
　Although neither had yet entered middle age, their early military careers had given Bright more than enough combat experience.
　That's why, in the aftermath of Char's Rebellion, he contemplated retirement and submitted his request about six months ago.
　Some veterans ventured into politics, but for those like Bright, who had endured actual combat since their reserve days, many opted for retirement if they could survive the minimum period required for their pension.
　The mental exhaustion was relentless.
　One might say they aged prematurely.
　In Bright's case, witnessing the deaths of his men weighed heavily on him.
　He did consider that the duty of experienced people was to change society itself to prevent situations like war from happening again.
　However, Bright felt drained of the energy required to become a politician.
　When on the front line, be it in the military or as a bureaucrat, one encounters the inherent issues within organizations.
　With humanity's current capabilities, reforming the detrimental habits birthed by organizations appeared insurmountable.
　Even a saint would find it difficult to change the individual discrepancies that naturally arose within an organization created by ordinary people.
　Bright concluded that the only solution to the bad habits of organizations was for everyone to become pure and incorruptible.
　This was also the foundation that gave rise to the Newtype ideology.
　Bright was a man who had come to this realization amidst circumstances directly linked to the deaths of his men.
　With no alternatives, Bright resolved to attempt something new.
　For a while, they would manage a quaint restaurant and, as ordinary people, contemplate their future within the humdrum world.
　"..."
　Bright sank into the sofa, smirking at the sight of Mirai with the telephone receiver, bowing her head. He couldn't help but think her Japanese heritage contributed to such unnecessary gestures.
　During his time managing their restaurant, his outlook might shift, and he might even dabble in politics. If that time came, he would likely espouse the lofty ideal that humanity must evolve into Newtypes, like a second coming of Zeon Deikun.
　It would be regarded as idealistic foolishness, and it might not garner votes in an election.
　However, in Bright's case, if he didn't do something like that, he feared that everything he had learned in the wars in space would go to waste.
　He resolved to begin with civilian life to acquire the necessary methods and capabilities.
　As for his chosen profession, he sought a building for his restaurant, a venture that addressed the basic human needs of food, clothing, and shelter.

Am I the only person who think that Tomino explains too much? It is the same thing with the old MSG novelization. He has got an eye for observation, but he doesn't have to write down everything. Tomino could've had used a few less stroke to describe Bright's state of mind.

Anyway, wasn't Bright a Rear Admiral during HF? He was a Captain during CC, so 9 years to jump from Captain to Commodore to Rear Admiral. The timeline does check out, though I wonder whether the victory in the Second Neo Zeon War fast-tracked him. Didn't Fukui write some short story about a secret 'cabal' threatening Bright to keep his mouth shut about Newtypes and the Axis Shock?

[Seto Kaiba]

Am I the only person who think that Tomino explains too much? It is the same thing with the old MSG novelization. He has got an eye for observation, but he doesn't have to write down everything. Tomino could've had used a few less stroke to describe Bright's state of mind.

That's just the difference between a visual and literary medium, IMO.

You're usually going to get a lot more detail about what characters are thinking and feeling in a light novel vs. an anime, because internal monologuing is a free action in a light novel, whereas you'd have to have the character either stand still and exposit (risking losing the audience) or frame the thing as a conversation with another character in a visual medium.

Anyway, wasn't Bright a Rear Admiral during HF? He was a Captain during CC, so 9 years to jump from Captain to Commodore to Rear Admiral. The timeline does check out, though I wonder whether the victory in the Second Neo Zeon War fast-tracked him. Didn't Fukui write some short story about a secret 'cabal' threatening Bright to keep his mouth shut about Newtypes and the Axis Shock?

I've always been a bit unclear on what rank he is at any given point, since he's usually referred to by his title rather than his actual rank.

Based on Dengeki Data Collection - Mobile Suit Gundam Unicorn and the Mechanics and World books for the OVA, Bright appears to be a Colonel/Captain as of UC 0096. Volume 1 of the Gundam character biographies book also describes him as still being a Colonel as of UC 0105. I'm not sure what the light novel itself says on the topic, but the Japanese wikipedia page claims pg210 of Vol.2 of the light novel also addresses him as being a Colonel in UC 0105. If true, that would mean he didn't land any additional promotions between Unicorn and Hathaway, which isn't surprising since promotion to flag officer rank usually involves government approval and Bright was a controversial figure whose authority the EF Government tried to limit at various times.

[Mafty]

Depending on the series Gundam itself doesn't seem to focus on the characters individual ranks and the duties they entail. For example Kamille is generally a pilot, but in once instance is shown going undercover as a spy (something Jerid comments on), as does Reccoa.

[Seto Kaiba]

Depending on the series Gundam itself doesn't seem to focus on the characters individual ranks and the duties they entail. For example Kamille is generally a pilot, but in once instance is shown going undercover as a spy (something Jerid comments on), as does Reccoa.

To be fair, relatively few members of any main UC Gundam show's cast are actual regular soldiers.

More commonly, they're irregulars who've been literally or figuratively drafted in extremis. They might eventually be given a brevet rank to justify their continued service as the war drags on, but they're typically just civilians forced to do whatever it takes to make ends meet during a war. Some, especially in Zeta are paramilitary instead and therefore that rigidity of role isn't really an expectation... but they're also shorthanded so folks are stuck doing whatever is necessary.