Aile or Sword Calamity?

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Mafty
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Aile or Sword Calamity?

So which unit seems like its stronger? The Calamity itself already seems like its a powerful machine (why else would they keep making variants?). The Sword Calamity can cut an entire ship in half, and still has most of the beam weaponry given to the main unit. On the other hand: the Aile Calamity (SPOILER) can wipe an entire fleet out single handedly, something that usually only happens with the main Gundams. I think the Aile Calamity is the most powerful variant, what does everyone else think?
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Seto Kaiba
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Re: Aile or Sword Calamity?

Neither. It's a comparison between two Mobile Suits with no objectively quantifiable performance data from spinoffs or MSV of a Gundam series that's memetically infamous both for being complete bullsh*t and for having the deciding factor in any fight be who has the thickest plot armor. Little things like experience, equipment, and tactics have nothing whatsoever to do with who wins fights in Gundam SEED. It's all about the thickness of your plot armor. Like in pro wrestling, if you're not an established character with your own plot armor the writers'll give you a match or two against the jobbers before you go up against someone who has plot armor and get REKT to affirm how cool they are.

It's little different to asking whether Superman or Saitama from One Punch Man is stronger. They're both only ever exactly as strong as the plot requires them to be.

(Naturally, the one true answer is that all Mobile Suits are equally inferior to whatever Kira is piloting that week... because he's the main character and he's playing with cheats enabled.)
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John-Luck Pickerd
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Re: Aile or Sword Calamity?

Well, both suits have demonstrated to be able to take out ships, but then ships, especially ocean going ones arent usually potrayed as particularly powerful in gundam franchise anyway...

Anyway, the Aile and the Swordare both conceived in the 1416 program with different purpose altogether, so you cant really have a straight comparison; the Sword would obviously be better at melee thanks to the giant swords, while Aile focuses on air combat and thus can actually fly unlike the Sword. The Aile Calamity's Adler device(however that works) should work on other Calamitys as well, as the Aile have fairly similar torso and arm as the other Calamity versions.

I cant find much information on the Aile as it came out recently in the new manga, and I dont have the model kit either so no information from there, hell I cant even find enough information in Japanese either. The only place with some worthwhile information is gundam wikia but well, anyone can edit that... but for what its worth, the wikia states that the Aile did surpasses the military's initial expectations, that coupled with the fact that Aile Calamity is a post-war unit suggest that the Aile do have better performance thanks to whatever new technology that wasnt available before.

The Aile has better number on paper, and it is more versatile since it has alot more varied weapon types and can fly. But in the end the Sword is not supposed to be competing with the Aile anyway, the Sword fills a different niche altogether, so which is better would depend alot on what mobile suit is for; do you want something for melee combat (like inside a colony), or something that can actually fly on Earth.

The wikia also says the Aile is pretty difficult to control so that is a big minus for anyone but the extreme few pilots capable of using it properly.
Mafty
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Re: Aile or Sword Calamity?

I agree that CE has a severe case of plot armor toward any popular character, even the regular mass produced units are effected by this. That being said the Calamity Gundam really does seem to be a powerful unit. It has a lot of weaponry( The chest and should cannons being the most obvious) so adding the Strike packs would probably make it even more powerful.

on another note it seems the Calamity is quite popular out of universe, given it how has the most mainstream variants out of the second series of Gundams (Sword appeared in the promo video, and Aile is part of the first new CE Manga in years).
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John-Luck Pickerd
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Re: Aile or Sword Calamity?

I am not sure Calamity uses the Striker packs, or atleast not the ones we are familiar with. The new Aile Calamity aside, the old Sword Calamity never demonstrated any ability to switch out its giant sword backpack for the Calamity's cannons. There are also some changes in the shoulders of the different Calamity versions. While the different Calamity versions share the same baisc body (head, torso, limbs), its peripheral stuff(backpack, shoulder pad etc.) by all indication are fixed equipment that you cant remove, atleast not without some hours in the hangar.


Like, imagine a Strike but with the Strike pack welded onto the machine instead of being removable, I guess.

Ofc, as Aile Calamity is a new post-war machine, its possible that it has changes in the internal systems like new battery, OS, structure etc. Again, Aile Calamity is has only appeared in 2 chapters so far, and the appearance in each chapter was rather short, so there are very little information currently.

Who knows, maybe there will be even more Calamities as the manga goes on, it is Seed after all and by god there would be more backpacks, IWSP Calamity, Ootori Calamity, Noir Calamity, Jet Calamity, Nuke Calamity. The merchandizing possibilities are endless.
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PowerdGNFlag
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Re: Aile or Sword Calamity?

How I see it is that at least for the Calamity's case, while the equipment does fit the Aile-Sword-Launcher template laid out by Strike, the Calamity's implementation was such that it's not "hot-swappable" in the middle of battle like the Strike can do with the Skygrasper/Cosmographer. So there's no immediate danger of getting Unlimited Backpack Works unless the Calamity itself is modded with a Strike-esque hardpoint.
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Kuruni
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Re: Aile or Sword Calamity?

Mafty wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 12:37 pm given it how has the most mainstream variants out of the second series of Gundams (Sword appeared in the promo video, and Aile is part of the first new CE Manga in years).
Nope, Forbidden beat it by one variant (MSV add Blue and Deep, GSD add Vortex, and D-Asyray R add. Rot), although Vortex is essentially Blue's recycle).
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Kuruni
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Re: Aile or Sword Calamity?

Bump. Because Aile Calamity's gunpla manual reveals some fun bit.

1. Supposedly, the original idea of Calamity was to made three variants based on the first three striker packs. But Azrael demanded heavy bombardment unit and so that one rolled out first (notice that Rena's Sword Calamity actually has similar colors to Calamity except the parts that diverted from Calamity? Supposedly, that's unit 1 used to test out various configurations). Because making such heavy MS flyable is troublesome, the development of Aile Calamity was the last to completed (and its model number suggest that it was the first concept design). And it's actually closer to IWSP in the term of function (that is flyable, heavily armed in both range and melee, and almost uncontrollable).
2. Its main weapon is Adler combined armament, which can switch between rifle, beam javelin, and war hammer. The war hammer mode is very dense, and when swing with built-in thruster has enough force that it can ko enemy pilot even if the target is protected by PS armor (similar to Raider's spheric breaker, I think).
3. On its shoulders are missile pods and dual beam cannons, and there're gatling cannon on the wings. There're also small shield with beam saber on each arms. And it still has the good old Scylla cannon, and according to both JP Wikipedia and JP Gundam Wiki, can equipped with Schlarg cannons too.

In short, it's likely to be the most powerful Calamity variant. It's inferior to Blau Calamity in term of raw firepower and defense, but still has edge in speed and melee. But neither Calamity nor Sword Calamity can match it in anyway.
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Underrated GM Custom
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Re: Aile or Sword Calamity?

It's interesting they mention having a hard time making Calamity fly due to its weight, iirc both Raider and Forbidden have a very similar weight of around 85 tons.
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John-Luck Pickerd
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Re: Aile or Sword Calamity?

Underrated GM Custom wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 5:14 am It's interesting they mention having a hard time making Calamity fly due to its weight, iirc both Raider and Forbidden have a very similar weight of around 85 tons.
I didnt find anything about weight in the kit manual, so the issue isnt weight.
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Kuruni
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Re: Aile or Sword Calamity?

Sorry, I meant heavy bombardment. The manual say its issue is to adapting artillery-focus unit into flyable.
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Mafty
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Re: Aile or Sword Calamity?

Maybe the reason for the attached backpack is to avoid issues with the Strike Packs. Mainly that you don't need to send out a different pack, because the attached weapons are enough.

That being said the added weight of the armaments of the Aile unit may be why it is much harder to get airborne than the other units.

Also I agree the Aile seems like the most powerful variant.
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John-Luck Pickerd
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Re: Aile or Sword Calamity?

Mafty wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:49 am Maybe the reason for the attached backpack is to avoid issues with the Strike Packs. Mainly that you don't need to send out a different pack, because the attached weapons are enough.

That being said the added weight of the armaments of the Aile unit may be why it is much harder to get airborne than the other units.

Also I agree the Aile seems like the most powerful variant.
True, most conventional MS in the first Alliance-Plant war cant fly either, other than special transformable units, lightweight foam metal prototype Astray, and the nuclear powered MS. It wasnt until after the war that flight capable MS become more commonplace.
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Re: Aile or Sword Calamity?

Kuruni wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:00 pm Sorry, I meant heavy bombardment. The manual say its issue is to adapting artillery-focus unit into flyable.
Ahhh, that makes a lot of sense. I'm guessing the huge energy draw from the Calamity's weapons such would make flight difficult. Although, Aegis also had a Scylla cannon but had the advantage of transforming and pointing all its thrust in one direction.

Recoil would also be an issue but I'm not sure how much recoil is involved in the plasma-sabot bazooka for instance.
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Re: Aile or Sword Calamity?

Underrated GM Custom wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:12 am
Kuruni wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:00 pm Sorry, I meant heavy bombardment. The manual say its issue is to adapting artillery-focus unit into flyable.
Ahhh, that makes a lot of sense. I'm guessing the huge energy draw from the Calamity's weapons such would make flight difficult. Although, Aegis also had a Scylla cannon but had the advantage of transforming and pointing all its thrust in one direction.

Recoil would also be an issue but I'm not sure how much recoil is involved in the plasma-sabot bazooka for instance.
if we see the bazooka destroying something like an asteroid or something similar we can calculate the amount of energy it would take to destroy it at least. maybe we can calculate the recoil from that.
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John-Luck Pickerd
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Re: Aile or Sword Calamity?

Underrated GM Custom wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:12 am
Kuruni wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:00 pm Sorry, I meant heavy bombardment. The manual say its issue is to adapting artillery-focus unit into flyable.
Ahhh, that makes a lot of sense. I'm guessing the huge energy draw from the Calamity's weapons such would make flight difficult. Although, Aegis also had a Scylla cannon but had the advantage of transforming and pointing all its thrust in one direction.

Recoil would also be an issue but I'm not sure how much recoil is involved in the plasma-sabot bazooka for instance.
I dont think Aegis can fly either. In Seed Aegis was using the Guul subflyer to keep itself in the air.
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Re: Aile or Sword Calamity?

John-Luck Pickerd wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:20 pm I dont think Aegis can fly either. In Seed Aegis was using the Guul subflyer to keep itself in the air.
Ah, it's been too long since I've rewatched Seed. I had thought that Aegis had limited flight while transformed but I may have misremembered.
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Re: Aile or Sword Calamity?

Nope. Aegis, weirdly, is incapable of unassisted atmospheric flight - hence the upgraded Rosso Aegis, which gains this capability.
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Mafty
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Re: Aile or Sword Calamity?

Aegis really seems best suited to a space combat role, really most mobile armors work best in space (Could you imagine something like the α-Azieru on Earth?).
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Re: Aile or Sword Calamity?

Mafty wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 10:03 am Aegis really seems best suited to a space combat role, really most mobile armors work best in space (Could you imagine something like the α-Azieru on Earth?).
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