Main Gun on the Pegasus Class Ships

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Main Gun on the Pegasus Class Ships

I always thought it was unique that the 580mm dual barrel main gun on the white base was a solid shell firing weapon. I saw this snippet on the Gundam Wikia, it's not repeated on the MAHQ profile so I'm curious as to how accurate it is.

"The White Base's main and most powerful armament was a 580mm two-barrel cannon mounted on a retractable turret just in front of the bridge. This gun originally fired shells, but it was later modified to fire beams after being upgraded at Jaburo in order to be effective in space."

I haven't seen the original TV show in a while but I don't recall any scenes in the compilation movie talking about swapping out the main gun, but I could have forgotten them. Did the change from solid shell to beam weapon occur? And if so, does anyone remember if this occurs on screen or off screen? I've seen the image of all weapons firing in space with pink beams, the problem is the Guncannons are also depicted as firing pink beams out of their cannons on A Baoa Qu.

Follow-up question, did the other Pegasus class ships (Thoroughbred, Grey Phantom, Blanc Rival) utilize a solid shell or beam main gun? I took a look through the Thoroughbred manga again and it's not immediately clear if the main gun is solid or beam on page 47 when they fire on the Musai since the side MPC and the Main Gun are drawn with different effects. However, when looking at page 93 it seems to share the same drawn effect as the MPC on the Salamis. Since the Thoroughbred was in Jaburo at the same time as the White Base it would make sense they would also be using the beam version of the main gun but I'm curious about the Blanc Rival and Grey Phantom.
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Re: Main Gun on the Pegasus Class Ships

Really? It's called main guns, yes, but I find it dubious to be more powerful than the side twin mega particle cannon.

Looked up the article on Japanese Gundam Wiki, it mentioned that some video games depict the main gun as mega particle cannon, but no mention of it got upgraded. The weapon upgrade is instead mentioned on the side twin mega particle cannon.
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Re: Main Gun on the Pegasus Class Ships

Underrated GM Custom wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:45 am I always thought it was unique that the 580mm dual barrel main gun on the white base was a solid shell firing weapon. I saw this snippet on the Gundam Wikia, it's not repeated on the MAHQ profile so I'm curious as to how accurate it is.

"The White Base's main and most powerful armament was a 580mm two-barrel cannon mounted on a retractable turret just in front of the bridge. This gun originally fired shells, but it was later modified to fire beams after being upgraded at Jaburo in order to be effective in space."

I haven't seen the original TV show in a while but I don't recall any scenes in the compilation movie talking about swapping out the main gun, but I could have forgotten them. Did the change from solid shell to beam weapon occur? And if so, does anyone remember if this occurs on screen or off screen? I've seen the image of all weapons firing in space with pink beams, the problem is the Guncannons are also depicted as firing pink beams out of their cannons on A Baoa Qu.

Follow-up question, did the other Pegasus class ships (Thoroughbred, Grey Phantom, Blanc Rival) utilize a solid shell or beam main gun? I took a look through the Thoroughbred manga again and it's not immediately clear if the main gun is solid or beam on page 47 when they fire on the Musai since the side MPC and the Main Gun are drawn with different effects. However, when looking at page 93 it seems to share the same drawn effect as the MPC on the Salamis. Since the Thoroughbred was in Jaburo at the same time as the White Base it would make sense they would also be using the beam version of the main gun but I'm curious about the Blanc Rival and Grey Phantom.
Some pre-reading:
https://mechatalk.net/viewtopic.php?p=396917


Yes, there's this strange thing in anime where they don't call the most powerful guns on the ships main guns.
For example, the main guns on Space Battleship Yamato isn't the wave motion cannon but the 480mm 3x3 barrel shock cannons.

And heck, even Kycillia's hand gun fires a pink beam when killing Gihren and WB crew when fighting Ramba in WB all have pink beam firing assault rifles.
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Re: Main Gun on the Pegasus Class Ships

As for the other Pegasus class ships; the Albion has two beam guns, and according to the wiki, so do "most" Pegasus class ships, like the Thoroughbred and the Blanc Rival, it's been awhile since I've read Space to The End of a Flash, and the Blanc Rival is probably the most obscure Pegasus class ship out there, so there isn't really any animated footage to easily draw from. Beam weaponry seems fairly standard in the UC, so most ships having this would make sense. That being said I don't remember the Gray Phantom having a mega particle cannon, though given how much more damage that would have caused in Libot, maybe they choose not to use it.
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Re: Main Gun on the Pegasus Class Ships

MythSearcher wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 11:55 pm Some pre-reading:
https://mechatalk.net/viewtopic.php?p=396917


Yes, there's this strange thing in anime where they don't call the most powerful guns on the ships main guns.
For example, the main guns on Space Battleship Yamato isn't the wave motion cannon but the 480mm 3x3 barrel shock cannons.

And heck, even Kycillia's hand gun fires a pink beam when killing Gihren and WB crew when fighting Ramba in WB all have pink beam firing assault rifles.
Thanks for the link MythSearcher, although it looks like that thread didn't confirm whether or not the White Bases solid shell gun was converted into a beam weapon or not. I'm not too worried about whether it's called the main gun or not, mostly I'm curious if that snippet from the Gundam Wiki is accurate, that during the Jaburo refit the shell-firing weapon in front of the bridge was converted to a beam weapon or not? Kurunui mentioned that some of the video games show the WB as using beam weapons on the center gun but I'm curious if that is an official occurrence or a game taking some liberty.

The Thoroughbred is the most similar to the White Base, and while it's not obvious I do think they are utilizing a beam weapon as the gun in front of the bridge (as well as the pair of twin MPC on port and starboard sides) based on how it was drawn in the 'Beyond the Blaze / To the end of a Flash' manga. So if the Thoroughbred is using all beam weaponry, it makes sense the White Base would be as well since they were both in Jaburo at the same time. I'm curious if there are any sources to confirm that though. I've got the old 1/1200 WB kit but I won't be seeing that for a few months until my household goods arrive from overseas.

(Also wasn't Kycillia's beam yellow when she shot Gihren in the back?)

Mafty,

I was talking about the gun in the middle of the ship. The twin MPC are standard on the pegasus class and are all housed and hidden behind the 'shield' looking objects. The White Base could look like a civilian ship since its weapons were hidden beneath, thus the Trojan Horse moniker. Agreed on the Grey Phantom, the ship didn't use any weapons since they were inside neutral territory. As for the Blanc Rival it's been so long since I've played Zeonic Front I don't recall if it was ever shown firing its main gun, although you attack it while its at Jaburo so even if it is shell firing it could be pre-Jaburo refit.
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Re: Main Gun on the Pegasus Class Ships

Mafty wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 1:00 am As for the other Pegasus class ships; the Albion has two beam guns, and according to the wiki, so do "most" Pegasus class ships, like the Thoroughbred and the Blanc Rival, it's been awhile since I've read Space to The End of a Flash, and the Blanc Rival is probably the most obscure Pegasus class ship out there, so there isn't really any animated footage to easily draw from. Beam weaponry seems fairly standard in the UC, so most ships having this would make sense. That being said I don't remember the Gray Phantom having a mega particle cannon, though given how much more damage that would have caused in Libot, maybe they choose not to use it.
Pegasus class is a big mess.
Then you get Sub-Pegasus class, White Base class AND Sub-WB class which further adding to the mess.
Oh, and there's Grey Phantom type.
There's supposed to be only 7 ships from the Pegasus class, including Albion, but we are well over the 7 ships number but the numbering from the sub-class and labellings of whether the are sub-class aren't consistent.
Gundam Officials even doubted WB Jr. existed and listed Thoroughbred as just a sub class.
Underrated GM Custom wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:50 am Thanks for the link MythSearcher, although it looks like that thread didn't confirm whether or not the White Bases solid shell gun was converted into a beam weapon or not. I'm not too worried about whether it's called the main gun or not, mostly I'm curious if that snippet from the Gundam Wiki is accurate, that during the Jaburo refit the shell-firing weapon in front of the bridge was converted to a beam weapon or not?
I don't think they canonoically changed the cannons, at least none of the Japanese sites says that, and they only say some games changed it to beam firing, but the change in MPC in the official settings is because the orientation of the MPC changed in the show.
The main reason for the cannons being hard to use is because of it being solid shell firing meaning high recoil, thus they cannot use other weapon systems when firing those guns.
I can't check it right now but apparently they used the main guns in ep.31 so you may check.
Gundam Officials stated the reason why they used the solid firing main guns, because the power for charging the MPC cannot be consistently provided on the WB. So with just minor modifications in Jaburo, they really can't do much about that and thus nowhere was it mentioned it was changed to MPC. Make no sense to not have the power to consistently fire your main guns.
Also, Thoroughbred was a modification of the class with larger hanger decks and engines moved to the back for faster build, but supposed to have only finished 40% because scrapped to become parts for WB when it entered Jaburo. So the Thoroughbred we see later in other places is really something else and not the 3rd ship of the line that was scrapped. Apparently Pegasus and WB Jr may not exist at all, or at least never really saw combat.(yes, that is why I hate going into this mess...)
Some other sources(as listed in the CRE wiki in Japanese) seems to think that the first block of Pegasus class, which is what Gundam Officials listed as WB type ships, Pegasus, WB and WB Jr. had engine troubles(based on in plot showings of WB) and thus the later ships went through a major redesign, thus leading to the Sub WB type, Gray Phantom type(sometimes directly called the WB class instead of the Pegasus class) and Albion type. But the engine problem is what caused Pegasus finishing much later than WB and only stayed at Lunar II without seeing combat instead.
The Thoroughbred is the most similar to the White Base, and while it's not obvious I do think they are utilizing a beam weapon as the gun in front of the bridge (as well as the pair of twin MPC on port and starboard sides) based on how it was drawn in the 'Beyond the Blaze / To the end of a Flash' manga. So if the Thoroughbred is using all beam weaponry, it makes sense the White Base would be as well since they were both in Jaburo at the same time. I'm curious if there are any sources to confirm that though. I've got the old 1/1200 WB kit but I won't be seeing that for a few months until my household goods arrive from overseas.
There seems to have no real standard though. Like I mentioned in that other post, some later ships also have solid shell firing main guns(albeit without a calibre listed)
(Also wasn't Kycillia's beam yellow when she shot Gihren in the back?)
I don't recall the colour exactly, but it is a beam nonetheless.
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Re: Main Gun on the Pegasus Class Ships

MythSearcher wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:03 pm I don't think they canonoically changed the cannons, at least none of the Japanese sites says that, and they only say some games changed it to beam firing, but the change in MPC in the official settings is because the orientation of the MPC changed in the show.
The main reason for the cannons being hard to use is because of it being solid shell firing meaning high recoil, thus they cannot use other weapon systems when firing those guns.
I can't check it right now but apparently they used the main guns in ep.31 so you may check.
I will definitely check it out in EP 31 when my household goods arrives from overseas. I also want to check the compilation movies as well to see if it's mentioned. I've also had my eye on the recent Tamashii Nations White Base figure, I wonder if it would mention the main gun at all.
Also, Thoroughbred was a modification of the class with larger hanger decks and engines moved to the back for faster build, but supposed to have only finished 40% because scrapped to become parts for WB when it entered Jaburo. So the Thoroughbred we see later in other places is really something else and not the 3rd ship of the line that was scrapped. Apparently Pegasus and WB Jr may not exist at all, or at least never really saw combat.(yes, that is why I hate going into this mess...)
You might be confusing the Thoroughbred with something else. From my recollection it was a different ship that was halted then turned into spare parts for the White Base, whereas the green one seen at Jaburo is the Thoroughbred; it's first appearance being the PS2 Gundam Encounters in Space campaign then later a full fledged manga, and then an appearance in Gundam Legacy. As I recall the Pegasus ships goes something like this:

#1 Pegasus - First started but due to construction issues isn't actually the first completed
#2 White Base - First one completed
#3 White Base Jr / II - Mentioned in MSV then shows up in either CDA or ZG Define iirc
#4 Blanc Rival - Zeonic Front (PS2) then the A Baoa Qu ride then later RoJR
#5 Thoroughbred - Also MSV, then Encounters in Space (PS2) then Manga and later 0081 MS Senki
#6 Grey Phantom - 0080 then Naval review in 0083. May also be in Unicorn or a sister ship
#7 Stallion - 0083 Naval Review
#8 Troy Horse - Mentioned in MSV, don't think it's ever made an animated or manga appearance though
#9 Albion - Final Pegasus model
There seems to have no real standard though. Like I mentioned in that other post, some later ships also have solid shell firing main guns(albeit without a calibre listed)
The Grey Phantom is the only one without a bridge centered gun right?
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Re: Main Gun on the Pegasus Class Ships

Underrated GM Custom wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 3:22 am
You might be confusing the Thoroughbred with something else. From my recollection it was a different ship that was halted then turned into spare parts for the White Base, whereas the green one seen at Jaburo is the Thoroughbred; it's first appearance being the PS2 Gundam Encounters in Space campaign then later a full fledged manga, and then an appearance in Gundam Legacy. As I recall the Pegasus ships goes something like this:

#1 Pegasus - First started but due to construction issues isn't actually the first completed
#2 White Base - First one completed
#3 White Base Jr / II - Mentioned in MSV then shows up in either CDA or ZG Define iirc
#4 Blanc Rival - Zeonic Front (PS2) then the A Baoa Qu ride then later RoJR
#5 Thoroughbred - Also MSV, then Encounters in Space (PS2) then Manga and later 0081 MS Senki
#6 Grey Phantom - 0080 then Naval review in 0083. May also be in Unicorn or a sister ship
#7 Stallion - 0083 Naval Review
#8 Troy Horse - Mentioned in MSV, don't think it's ever made an animated or manga appearance though
#9 Albion - Final Pegasus model
That's the messy part I'm talking about.
What I said above is from Gundam Officials, and the Thoroughbred it's talking about is the ugly green ship you see in FG parked next to WB which looks like the centre part of WB is enlarged, with no front arms.
This is not the later Thoroughbred we see in other materials.
So there are 2 Thoroughbreds during OYW, one that didn't get finished and scrapped for WB parts, which was a modified Pegasus class ship, another being the 2nd block of the Pegasus class you see in Encounters in Space.
And there's only 7 ships in the Pegasus class, Albion being the 7th.
Which is why I say this is a mess because they randomly add ships. Some of the ships in the class may have became it's own class and the latter ships of that type aren't considered Pegasus class, or something like that.
The Grey Phantom is the only one without a bridge centered gun right?
At least not shown(and I won't be surprised if it was retconned that it got a hidden one to make it more streamlined). But Stallion is the same type of ship so it also shouldn't have a centre gun if Gray Phantom doesn't have one.
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Re: Main Gun on the Pegasus Class Ships

That is very confusing, especially if there's only 7 Pegasus class ships but more than 7 ships haha!

I wonder if they ever produced a model kit for the Grey Phantom. I've only ever seen the White Base and Albion kits, but if there's a Grey Phantom it should answer the question of whether there's a center of mass gun and whether its shell firing or not.
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Re: Main Gun on the Pegasus Class Ships

Underrated GM Custom wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 2:19 am I wonder if they ever produced a model kit for the Grey Phantom. I've only ever seen the White Base and Albion kits, but if there's a Grey Phantom it should answer the question of whether there's a center of mass gun and whether its shell firing or not.
Not that I know of.
They didn't even have Gray Phantom in the Cosmo Fleet Collection series.
You probably can find a GK for it if you look hard enough but as GKs aren't official products you won't get a good description.
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Re: Main Gun on the Pegasus Class Ships

Yeah I'm guessing ship kits and models don't sell that well. All the kits I have are the very early stuff so the White Base, Salamis, Musai and the Gau / Gaw carrier. Who knows, they might see an untapped market in the future and start releasing very expensive p-bandai kits for side story ships.
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Re: Main Gun on the Pegasus Class Ships

Underrated GM Custom wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:51 am Yeah I'm guessing ship kits and models don't sell that well. All the kits I have are the very early stuff so the White Base, Salamis, Musai and the Gau / Gaw carrier. Who knows, they might see an untapped market in the future and start releasing very expensive p-bandai kits for side story ships.
I doubt they don't sell that well.
In the Japanese PB website, they regularly reprint the EX Models of ships(The Magellan & Salamis and the Musai pack seems to be reprinted like twice a year), meaning they are making money, if not, they won't reprint those at all.
I guess they aren't really making much money out of it because of the metal parts and details levels, but they can always just increase the price of the new kits.
I don't even think ship lovers mind having less details, at least I don't.
And then there was this Space Battleship Yamato line of products, which is like even better than the EX models like and not really that expensive, and bigger than the EX model line.

That is why I can't understand Bandai's strategy, they seem to be making perfectly good and earning products, but just don't continue those lines.
Maybe they are switching to lines that earn more? but they are still reprinting these old lines for some reason, without just discontinuing them or making new versions that charge more?

On the other hand, GK modeller Fleetmo is completely sucking up the vacuum of the EX models.
He produces GK models in the same scale, 1/1700 as the EX models for ships that aren't made by Bandai, in typical very expensive GK prices.
I don't even care paying for that kind of prices, but GKs are made in such small numbers I can't get my hands on them unless I buy the resale products that might be counterfeit.(that's lots of them)
There are a few ships I want multiples of, like the 0083 Salamis Kai, I want at least 3 of them.
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Re: Main Gun on the Pegasus Class Ships

It could be they prefer to do limited releases for ships since they don't have a constant demand like they do for standard Gunpla kits. By doing limited releases they can get a demand spike from consumers, especially if they're timed around certain parts of the year. It's a shame though they don't do more with the Pegasus line of ships.

I picked up a few of the Space Battleship Yamato stuff since it was relatively inexpensive, and much easier to put together than the old stuff from the 80s; I don't think they did any MSG stuff did they? Where's GK based out of and do they make any kits for the Dendrobium or Neue Ziel at the 1/400 range?
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Re: Main Gun on the Pegasus Class Ships

Agreed. I've also found Yamato models locally for a good price, and I agree that the older models are not easy to put together. That's why I choose not to buy an older Zeta Gundam Model I found in a pawn shop, it was cool, but there was no way I could actually build it.

Personally I'd like if more Gundam ship models were made/exported, there are some I'd really like to build(the Nahel Argama, the Dominion, Minerva, Megafuana, Willgame etc).
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Re: Main Gun on the Pegasus Class Ships

Underrated GM Custom wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 8:35 am It could be they prefer to do limited releases for ships since they don't have a constant demand like they do for standard Gunpla kits. By doing limited releases they can get a demand spike from consumers, especially if they're timed around certain parts of the year. It's a shame though they don't do more with the Pegasus line of ships.

I picked up a few of the Space Battleship Yamato stuff since it was relatively inexpensive, and much easier to put together than the old stuff from the 80s; I don't think they did any MSG stuff did they? Where's GK based out of and do they make any kits for the Dendrobium or Neue Ziel at the 1/400 range?
GK=Garage Kit
Meaning kits that fans do on their own(and yes, they can get licensed from official companies) and Fleetmo does a LOT of different ships.

These makers usually sell their products in events like Wonder Fest and get a one day license. Then you get resellers and bootleggers.

I can kinda understand their reason of selling ships on PB on a regular basis because they can just take a certain amount of orders and be done with it. They can sell every box of it. But surely they can do pretty much the same thing for new ship models, yet they don't.
It's not like they don't already have some 3D models of the ships lying around to modify them to models, or at least do a poll or something and see if people like them.
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Re: Main Gun on the Pegasus Class Ships

GK = Garage Kit

Ohhhh, yeah I should have figured that. Hahaha thanks.
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