The Fate of Kamille Bidan

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Nikkolas
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The Fate of Kamille Bidan

So I know he gets better from the state Scirocco left him in at some point in ZZ but is there anything official about what happened to him after that?

I was wondering in particular how he felt about the events of CCA. Some consider Kamille's fate in Zeta to be a catalyst for Char's descent to total madness and for his part I think Kamille liked the man. Seeing his mentor become what he became...I'd like to know what Kamille thought of all that.

Regardless of all that though, I heard a lot of statements that he was 'officially" the strongest Newtype or the one with the most potential. Even if he wasn't #1, he was damn close to it and just kinda pushing him aside and forgetting about him seems like a strange writing decision. The UC timeline continues as if he never existed. Did somebody realize how much his life sucked so they decided to give him a break by leaving him out of any future stuff?
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AmuroNT1
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Re: The Fate of Kamille Bidan

The manga "Moon Crisis" shows Kamille in UC 0099 as a doctor living in Granada, but being a manga it's not exactly a reliable source of info.
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sdwoodchuck
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Re: The Fate of Kamille Bidan

Nikkolas wrote:Even if he wasn't #1, he was damn close to it and just kinda pushing him aside and forgetting about him seems like a strange writing decision. The UC timeline continues as if he never existed.
I actually find that to be a pretty smart writing decision, for exactly that reason. Kamille, by the end of Zeta, has reached a point where it's hard for him to go anywhere else. As a newtype, he's hit the ceiling, so to speak. Either newtype powers would have to extend in to some strange new directions, or the character would sort of stagnate in constantly having conversations with ghosts in his cockpit, or having psychic fights with other newtypes, neither of which really fit as a sustained activity in the series (in Zeta this starts happening toward the end, when he's nearing the end of his character arc). As a pilot, I'm not sure it would actually make a lot of sense for him to become involved in later conflicts. He hates war. He hates militarism. The whole reason he stuck the AEUG/Titans conflict through was because it was heavily personal for him. While I definitely don't think that Char's Neo Zeon movement is something he would support, I don't know that he would go to war against his old mentor to put a stop to it either.

I actually prefer not knowing what happens to Kamille moving forward. At the end of Zeta, the mental zapping that Scirocco gives him is probably the best thing that could have happened to him. It gives him back his innocence, which that kid had lost in the worst possible way in the months leading up to that moment. The weight of so many lives lost would have destroyed him; now he has a chance to personally start over. The Kamille you knew through the entire series is gone, and hopefully won't come back.
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wielder
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Re: The Fate of Kamille Bidan

sdwoodchuck wrote: I actually prefer not knowing what happens to Kamille moving forward. At the end of Zeta, the mental zapping that Scirocco gives him is probably the best thing that could have happened to him. It gives him back his innocence, which that kid had lost in the worst possible way in the months leading up to that moment. The weight of so many lives lost would have destroyed him; now he has a chance to personally start over. The Kamille you knew through the entire series is gone, and hopefully won't come back.
I suppose that preferring to not know is always a valid position, particularly because it provides the maximum amount of room for interpretation and it's clear that the rest of the UC Gundam narrative continued on without involving him in any major role, but I'm still glad that at least in ZZ we did get to see him in a comparatively minor appearance and confirmed that he wasn't totally gone and could in fact hope to recover one way or another. Which doesn't mean he would ever come back to the spotlight, but at least it's better than some of the other possible futures he could have had.

Just based on Zeta alone, losing his mind took away a lot of accumulated suffering and erased the trauma of so many painful experiences, yes, but also seemingly crippled his individual personality and threw away all of his recently acquired maturity, among other things. If we didn't know otherwise, you'd think he could risk spending the rest of his life in medical care and unable to function as a normal human being anymore. Which is arguably better than death, I guess, but not exactly a kind resolution. I prefer knowing there's at least a step up from that.
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OtakuJakeSan
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Re: The Fate of Kamille Bidan

If you watch the ZZ Prologue episode, you'll see a large portion of the episode discusses Kamille and his prospects.

Captain Bright and Fa discussing heading to Granada so Kamille can see the best Drs etc is one example.

There's a bunch in there.

Cheers.
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BrentD15
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Re: The Fate of Kamille Bidan

sdwoodchuck wrote: Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:39 pm I actually prefer not knowing what happens to Kamille moving forward. At the end of Zeta, the mental zapping that Scirocco gives him is probably the best thing that could have happened to him. It gives him back his innocence, which that kid had lost in the worst possible way in the months leading up to that moment. The weight of so many lives lost would have destroyed him; now he has a chance to personally start over. The Kamille you knew through the entire series is gone, and hopefully won't come back.
wielder wrote: Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:29 pm Just based on Zeta alone, losing his mind took away a lot of accumulated suffering and erased the trauma of so many painful experiences, yes, but also seemingly crippled his individual personality and threw away all of his recently acquired maturity, among other things. If we didn't know otherwise, you'd think he could risk spending the rest of his life in medical care and unable to function as a normal human being anymore. Which is arguably better than death, I guess, but not exactly a kind resolution. I prefer knowing there's at least a step up from that.
The whole "fresh start" aspect of Scirocco's mind wipe never really occurred to me before, and it certainly is an unintended benefit for Kamille, but that also removes all of the character growth he had over the course of the war, from an immature brat to a young man, was also lost, along with his memories of all the people he loved and lost, friend and foe alike.

With that being said, I do agree that the fresh start aspect is probably the better outcome, if not a bittersweet one.
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MythSearcher
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Re: The Fate of Kamille Bidan

AmuroNT1 wrote: Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:27 am The manga "Moon Crisis" shows Kamille in UC 0099 as a doctor living in Granada, but being a manga it's not exactly a reliable source of info.
Moon Crisis was essentially decanonised by Unicorn. Ironic that Unicorn has so many similar plot points in it that even the author of MC was finding it funny.
Also, I think MC is better than Unicorn, much much better.
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Underrated GM Custom
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Re: The Fate of Kamille Bidan

I'm not familiar with Moon Crisis, what did you like better about it?
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MythSearcher
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Re: The Fate of Kamille Bidan

Underrated GM Custom wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:15 pm I'm not familiar with Moon Crisis, what did you like better about it?
1) It does not involve someone becoming demi-god.
2) It does not involve someone transcend upon time and become nigh omnipotent.
3) It does not involve intentional undermining of EF by writing war crimes that made little sense(Igloo's EFSF still killing off Zeon units is as far as I can accept as reasonable. Holding out a full colony to rape them isn't. There is no way this will not go into the news at all in such age and technology and no depiction of both sides of the war has gone that far down the hole.)
4) It does not involve some kind of conspiracy of a completely idiotic constitution that discriminates every single human at the time. Where even if published, will basically just get those politicians their leave of office and the constitution gets changed immediately.

Yes, in terms of the end product of both the novel and anime, Unicorn is more refined and clean as a product. But Moon Crisis does not have that undertone of the author that ignores every aspect of rationality and settings and try to create his own world out of it.

Matsuura, while is also trying to create a world, tried to integrate what's known of UC at the time and furthered the idea of the Zeta plus team. Granted, there were much less burden at the time because you simply don't have that much settings and stories so he had more freedom, but he stayed far from the NT mess and made something like Sentinel, yet still included NT weapons and Anti Psycommu system.

Fukui on the other hand, while claiming how much of a Tomino fan he is(and people treat him like he is the some kind of illegitimate son of Tomino), does't seem to even understand what UC and NT are about and create this godly figure out of NTs.(I doubt he even read Tomino's interview about all children are NTs)

iirc Fukui said he never read Moon Crisis, but the story's main plot line isn't that different.
If we give the gist of both stories, it is the male lead meeting Minerva Sabi, who some how got picked up by a Zeon remnant operating transport ship, got dragged into a new Zeon branch's scheme and fought the branch together. You get all these TMS in the same team as the male lead(though this can be seen as Moon Crisis being taking after Sentinel and Katoki's involvement in both Sentinel and Unicorn) and than you get some kind of Zeong at the end as the last boss.(though granted, Fukui's original novel doesn't have Zeong as last boss) and both got this independent fleet of EFSF where the male lead worked for.(common in Gundam stories though), you also get the Anti Psycommu system, in which to my knowledge, is completely a creation of Matsuura and never seen in any other UC Gundam stories other than Matsuura's own semi-sequel REON. The first chapter of both works are also "The day of X". X is different but there's something uncannily similar in that 1st chapter's naming convention.

People speculate Fukui or Sunrise/Bandai taking Moon Crisis plot line as the bases and creating the more contemporary Unicorn.
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DragoMaster009
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Re: The Fate of Kamille Bidan

I mean even ignoring its connection to Outer Gundam and Gundam REON (both of which weren't exactly following along with the general timeline of previously established series), wasn't Moon Crisis rendered invalid due to contradicting F91 or something?
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MythSearcher
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Re: The Fate of Kamille Bidan

DragoMaster009 wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 12:28 am I mean even ignoring its connection to Outer Gundam and Gundam REON (both of which weren't exactly following along with the general timeline of previously established series), wasn't Moon Crisis rendered invalid due to contradicting F91 or something?
It doesn't really contradict F91 since the story was not connected.
The Trilogy, Outer Gundam(0079), Moon Crisis(0099) and REON(0105) was not really that outlandish at the time of publish.
Outer Gundam tried to connect the dots to Sentinel's ALICE with Zephr, Moon Crisis connects Sentinel with the settings about Zeon giving up its autonomy in 0099, REON tries to tie in Zephr and ALICE to M-MSV units.

They don't really have any impact to later events because nothing that important happened that would have rendered the official timeline at the time invalid. Continuity-wise it is even less invalid than 0083.
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Re: The Fate of Kamille Bidan

Fascinating stuff, I had no idea that Moon Crisis and Unicorn shared the same basic plot. I finished reading Sentinel earlier this year and I'll definitely look into the Moon crisis trilogy in the future since it sounds like it does a pretty job of trying to connect some of the side stories without completely upending UC.
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