Guncannon and Guntank

The future is now. This is the place for mecha and science.
Post Reply
Mafty
Posts: 1132
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:43 am

Guncannon and Guntank

So out of the two which do you think proved to be a better/more powerful design? Both designs are somewhat phased out from the UC following the OYW (though both see numerous variations during that time period), with the GM largely serving as the template for future Federation Mass Produced MS.
I’d say the Guncannon with it’s more humanoid design proved better in combat(indeed the variations we see more frequently attach shoulder cannons to a humanoid unit). The Guntank meanwhile eventually loses it’s tread design, and further units (Such as the Loto and the F91’s Guntank )adopt a legged transformation feature. So what does everyone else think?
User avatar
Seto Kaiba
Posts: 2230
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:18 pm
Contact:

Re: Guncannon and Guntank

The Guntank and Guncannon are designed for different battlefield roles, so the answer is properly "neither"... and both persist for decades after the One Year War, so both concepts definitely continue to be viable for years afterwards.
The Macross Mecha Manual
Yes, we're working on updates...
User avatar
MythSearcher
Posts: 1845
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:36 pm

Re: Guncannon and Guntank

Well, Guntank was a project before they really know what MS is and Guncannon is a unit they started to really work on MS. Both are reorganised under Project V.

Guntank is a, ahem, tank. Which, in modern terms will have military enthusiasts laugh their lungs out.
But it has its origin in the then common strategy of EFGF's M61 tank in mind, BLOS artillery bombardment. (So in modern terms it is an artillery vehicle instead of a tank.)
It is not designed to be a MS nor can really operate like one. It is supposed to be bombarding targets at high precision from up to 250km away, under a full combat support network of all front line units and satellite information.
And we know that is not going to happen in OYW since the introduction of Minovsky particle warfare.

Guncannon, on the other hand, is a step in the design of MS. but instead of a mobile unit, they still have the concept of a tank. It is not really supposed to move quick, but has very strong armour to take hits. And EFF still isn't really that willing and ready to ditch their BLOS strategy, so the attack range is still something like 60km?(sorry, can't remember this one, but is still something like 2~5x RX-78's range)

Due to their range, they can still perform somewhat in the war because they took up the positions of artillery support units. While if on the very undesirable situation where they are found by the enemy, Guncannon is more likely to survive the encounter provided it is more agile(compared to Guntank) and heavily armoured, but since it has to be placed closer to the target, it is more likely to fall into that situation. So yeah, like Seto said, it is hard to say which is more powerful or better.

If you really want an answer, I'd say Guncannon is better overall because obviously they still have some use with that design afterwards, and mass produced the GM Cannon, GM cannon II and also tested the Jesta Cannon and you do get other cannon type MS later. While Guntank's role is just too close to M61 and they simply have too much of those, so while they do have a Guntank II, you don't really see that much mass production of that type of MS until the Loto and R44 which isn't really a pure Guntank but more of a mix of Guntank and Guncannon.
Mafty
Posts: 1132
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:43 am

Re: Guncannon and Guntank

The Guntank really works best on the ground (obviously this is what it was meant for to begin with), and it always look odd in FG to see the treaded Guntank in space. In IGLOO we see how well the assault Guntank works in ground based battle.

On another note the Sunrise produced series Metal Armor Dragonar(which itself was allegedly an attempt to create a new Gundam style franchise), may have started the trend of having more humanoid based tank mechs, as the Dragonar 2 seems to be a mix of the Guntank and Guncannon.
User avatar
Underrated GM Custom
Posts: 545
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Guncannon and Guntank

Guncannon and Guntank fulfilled different roles on the battlefield, if you're asking in terms of "which is better for anti-MS combat" then I suppose it goes to Guncannon by default. The Guntank was very useful for long range bombardments, but those are less useful against moving targets. The Guncannon provided mid-range support to closer range fighters like the Gundam. It also has the advantage of retaining solid munition for when the beam rifle runs out of power, a choice that is later recreated for the RX78-6 Mudrock.

For fighting other mobile suit the Guntank doesn't have the best track record, neither does the Guntank II in Zeta or Unicorn, the LOTO however fares better in the far future. The Guncannon has a better track record with Zeon's earlier units like the Zaku and Dom, the all Guncannon team from the Thoroughbred produced good results as well. The Guncannon design of mid-range support unit (often utilizing shoulder weapons) is one we see continued for many years.
User avatar
MythSearcher
Posts: 1845
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:36 pm

Re: Guncannon and Guntank

Underrated GM Custom wrote: Mon Mar 14, 2022 11:58 am Guncannon and Guntank fulfilled different roles on the battlefield, if you're asking in terms of "which is better for anti-MS combat" then I suppose it goes to Guncannon by default. The Guntank was very useful for long range bombardments, but those are less useful against moving targets. The Guncannon provided mid-range support to closer range fighters like the Gundam. It also has the advantage of retaining solid munition for when the beam rifle runs out of power, a choice that is later recreated for the RX78-6 Mudrock.

For fighting other mobile suit the Guntank doesn't have the best track record, neither does the Guntank II in Zeta or Unicorn, the LOTO however fares better in the far future. The Guncannon has a better track record with Zeon's earlier units like the Zaku and Dom, the all Guncannon team from the Thoroughbred produced good results as well. The Guncannon design of mid-range support unit (often utilizing shoulder weapons) is one we see continued for many years.
And then later they have the even longer range sniper MSs, which can also do MS combat and work good in space. While they can still just use like 50 M61s instead of sending in 3 Guntanks to do an even better job...
Hover MSs are also clearly replacing the treads.

BTW, I always view LOTO as a descendent of Guncannon and not Guntank. It is more like a transformable Guncannon with a tank mode and not a Guntank with a MS mode.(and technically it is not a tank mode but more like a personnel carrier, even from within the UC world definition of tanks.)
User avatar
Underrated GM Custom
Posts: 545
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Guncannon and Guntank

Interesting, why do you consider it a Guncannon successor? I've always thought of the Loto as having a Guntank lineage due to it's long barrel cannons; of course its a spec ops machine so it perform multiple roles like being an APC. If I recall correctly I think the F91 Guntank was derived from the LOTO as well.
User avatar
Kuruni
Posts: 2925
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:43 am
Location: sitting next to a yandere loli
Contact:

Re: Guncannon and Guntank

I always thought there's no direct connection between LOTO and Guntank. It can transform into APC-like mode, yes, but nobody in-universe made it as Guntank's successors.
My girlfriend was a loli.
User avatar
MythSearcher
Posts: 1845
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:36 pm

Re: Guncannon and Guntank

Underrated GM Custom wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 11:23 am Interesting, why do you consider it a Guncannon successor? I've always thought of the Loto as having a Guntank lineage due to it's long barrel cannons; of course its a spec ops machine so it perform multiple roles like being an APC. If I recall correctly I think the F91 Guntank was derived from the LOTO as well.
humanoid with shoulder cannons.
That is the main reason.
Cannon length doesn't really matter as long as it is balanced.
It is not like Loto is a long range artillery unit like the Guntank as well.

And yes, the F91 R-44 is retconned to be derived from LOTO, but that one's tank mode is at least more like Guntank(with a higher body profile), so R-44 is actually more like a hybrid of Guntank and Guncannon.
User avatar
Underrated GM Custom
Posts: 545
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Guncannon and Guntank

Ah I understand your position then, I think of the Loto as more Guntank due to the large long barrel cannons as opposed to the short barrel cannons of the Guncannon. I don't really consider being humanoid as automatically make it Guncannon-esque since being humanoid is expected in that level of warfare, otherwise you wind up with a glorified turrent like the Guntank II.

I think the only other obsure Guntank successor out there was the GF-Tank from the 0096 sidestory Last Sun.
User avatar
JEFFPIATT
Posts: 810
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:44 pm
Location: Allentown, PA
Contact:

Re: Guncannon and Guntank

the Guncannon actually has more suits decended from it thanks to the RGC line of suits where they decided to use the RGM frames to extend the guncannon line even the Jegan had a RGC model the RGC-90-Jegan Heavy Equipment Type from CCA-MSV.
https://gundam.fandom.com/wiki/RGC-90_J ... pment_Type
the uc 100 era had the F70 series of suits that continued the concept of the rx-77 line. the F70 Cannon Gundam a prototype MP version of the F90S Gundam F90 Support Type and the final model the F71 G-Cannon
https://gundam.fandom.com/wiki/F90S_Gun ... pport_Type
https://gundam.fandom.com/wiki/F70_Cannon_Gundam
https://gundam.fandom.com/wiki/F71_G-Cannon
Post Reply