The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by yazi88 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:10 pm

I think its more like HG only has power in the US compared to EU and Asia... Big West just had to fight them for the IP in EU....

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Henyo » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:13 am

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:36 pm
So... back on Tuesday (5 Nov), Big West scored another legal victory over Harmony Gold USA.

The European Union Intellectual Property Office officially awarded ownership of the Macross trademarks in the European Union market to Big West, over Harmony Gold's objections.
any links to give there comrade? i want to share this with the Mecha group im in back on FB(if they haven't already caught wind of it)
also, ya guys have any good way to convince a dood who thinks that Harmony Gold has any say if a Macross can get in any SRW game? already tried to to inform of what i understood of the license situation.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by yazi88 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:57 am

I don't think Harmony Gold has any authority to prevent Macross from being in SRW games, since those are JP made games.

I also don't think they can prevent any Macross included SRW game being made in English to come out in Asia either. Delta seems likely to come out in the near future for SRW given that SRW usually waits a couple of years after a show is done to be put in a regular SRW game (not including the gacha game, Cross Omega for that list)

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Seto Kaiba » Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:14 pm

DragoMaster009 wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:08 pm
So Harmony Gold's running out of time on the anime front, if things like this keep up?
Something like that.

The short-term implications for Harmony Gold aren't very big, but this marks another erosion of the value of that license renewal to Macross's original series that Harmony Gold paid through the nose for. Eventually, they'll reach the point where their diminishing ability to keep from having to directly compete with Macross on an even playing field and the continuing decline of the Robotech fanbase will price the renewal of that license to Super Dimension Fortress Macross out of their reach... or at least out of their ability to cost-justify it.

Harmony Gold was REALLY counting on growing its brand in the PRC, since it's kind of outlived its novelty in much of the rest of the world. News that Big West had shot down their trademarks there and struck a licensing deal to distribute ALL of Macross except the original series must've hurt like a half-brick to the head.


yazi88 wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:10 pm
I think its more like HG only has power in the US compared to EU and Asia... Big West just had to fight them for the IP in EU....
Pretty much. The way US trademark laws are written, they greatly favor Harmony Gold because they favor the first user of a mark in the market over the actual owner of the property. Outside the US, Harmony Gold is in a much worse situation since trademark law in most of the rest of the world favor's the property's owner instead.

HG might have an advantage in South America... if only anyone actually legitimately bought their sh*t there. If you thought China was #1 in copyright infringement, think again. Studies conducted on internet usage down in South America have suggested more than half of the 223 million internet users in South America engage in video, audio, and multimedia piracy and a fair percentage of them even pirate their local cable TV.

However, with the all-important markets for things like theatrical films being the US, UK, China, Japan, and Western Europe... well, you can see where Harmony Gold might feel the noose is tightening around their necks. They could never sell in Japan, and their grip on the UK, China, and Western Europe is breaking.


Henyo wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:13 am
any links to give there comrade? i want to share this with the Mecha group im in back on FB(if they haven't already caught wind of it)
I was just sent a copy of the opposition hearing doc B002959008 by e-mail. It's written in Italian too, so it's not all that helpful unless you've got someone to translate. One of the more annoying parts about government patent and trademark office websites is that they're often set up so that you can't direct-link search results. Why, I don't know...


Henyo wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:13 am
also, ya guys have any good way to convince a dood who thinks that Harmony Gold has any say if a Macross can get in any SRW game? already tried to to inform of what i understood of the license situation.
Super Robot Wars games usually aren't sold outside Japan, IIRC, due to the complicated licensing problems involved in having so many titles crossing over with each other. HG doesn't really get a say in what goes on in a Japanese game, because they have no rights to anything in Japan. Even the company they license from, Tatsunoko Production, doesn't have the domestic (JDM) merchandising rights to any Macross title.

If it were being sold internationally, then HG could have a post-facto say by threatening to sue for infringement of their exclusive (outside-Japan) merchandising rights to the original Macross series and DYRL, but none of the others.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by False Prophet » Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:58 am

I have heard that China lately had been tightening the noose around copyright violators, partly because they want to appear to be as a more "legitimate" market for international firms.

Anyway, with the death of Syd Mead, I suddenly want to ask if Kawamori has any apprentice/protege in mechanical design. He reaches 60 the next year. Maybe it is time for he to find someone whom he can entrust his future works with?

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Seto Kaiba » Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:49 pm

False Prophet wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:58 am
I have heard that China lately had been tightening the noose around copyright violators, partly because they want to appear to be as a more "legitimate" market for international firms.
Lately, China's government has been getting increasingly panicky about its increasingly sluggish economic growth, the increase in scrutiny and legal action against Chinese-made counterfiet products, the loss of trust stemming from their various attempts at corporate espionage, and the international outrage over the Hong Kong situation and their various other violations of human rights. They're trying to put out so many different fires all at once that their damage control efforts are becoming increasingly knee-jerk denialist, and each ill-considered move they make only draws increasingly large amounts of attention to what they're trying to sweep under the rug. I think this token effort to enforce copyright and trademark protections like they're supposed to have been doing all along is one panic-stricken maneuver that the government hopes will prevent an exodus of businesses from China.

I'm sure you've probably heard that Bandai's been pursuing a number of Chinese gunpla bootleggers, Hasbro's lawyers have also been going after China-based Transformers toy bootleggers, and so on. A lot of the smaller bootlegging outfits are based in Hong Kong, which should have really interesting implications for any legal action and attempts at criminal prosecution.

It'll be interesting to see what becomes of China's own homebrewed ripoffs like their Macross Frontier and Mobile Suit Gundam SEED ripoff Astro Plan.


False Prophet wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:58 am
Anyway, with the death of Syd Mead, I suddenly want to ask if Kawamori has any apprentice/protege in mechanical design. He reaches 60 the next year. Maybe it is time for he to find someone whom he can entrust his future works with?
Well, I suppose the question would be does Macross actually NEED a "successor"? It's not like Gundam has suffered much in the absence of Yoshiyuki Tomino... and most fans grossly overestimate how involved Kawamori is in any given Macross series. It's not like he's calling all the shots, or even most of them. He does mechanical design works and he "supervises", meaning he rubber-stamps whatever the production committee puts in front of him.

In terms of replacement mechanical designers, his heir apparent is Hidetaka Tenjin. Tenjin did many of the new design works for Macross the Ride and as you know has been a long-time box artist for Macross model kits. It's also possible Junya Ishigaki might step up, as he's collaborated with Kawamori on designs for the last few shows and did the cockpits for all the CG VFs and the designs for the Octos, Vajra, Macross Quarter, Cheyenne, and EX-Gear.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Chris » Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:40 pm

False Prophet wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:58 am
Anyway, with the death of Syd Mead, I suddenly want to ask if Kawamori has any apprentice/protege in mechanical design. He reaches 60 the next year. Maybe it is time for he to find someone whom he can entrust his future works with?
Yoshiyuki Tomino and Hayao Miyazaki are each 78 and still working, so I don't see any reason why Kawamori would be picking any successors at any time in the next decade or so.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by False Prophet » Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:27 pm

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:49 pm
It'll be interesting to see what becomes of China's own homebrewed ripoffs like their Macross Frontier and Mobile Suit Gundam SEED ripoff Astro Plan.
So there is a Macross-ripoff other than Robotech? Now that I have no idea about.

I don't know if it's the same as in America, but here in Vietnam there are quite a good number of Chinese ripoff anime shows being aired on cable (I distinctively remember a G.I Joe ripoff, this one
Seto Kaiba wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:49 pm
In terms of replacement mechanical designers, his heir apparent is Hidetaka Tenjin. Tenjin did many of the new design works for Macross the Ride and as you know has been a long-time box artist for Macross model kits. It's also possible Junya Ishigaki might step up, as he's collaborated with Kawamori on designs for the last few shows and did the cockpits for all the CG VFs and the designs for the Octos, Vajra, Macross Quarter, Cheyenne, and EX-Gear.
It's a good thing to know that there are someone who could inherit Kawamori's works, especially Tenjin and Junya. I liked their works with Baldr Force and Victory respectively.
Chris wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:40 pm
Yoshiyuki Tomino and Hayao Miyazaki are each 78 and still working, so I don't see any reason why Kawamori would be picking any successors at any time in the next decade or so.
It's Tomino and Miyazaki, two admittedly weirdos of the industry we are talking about. Beside, I have a feeling that we won't see many people of the Mushi generation still doing anime in the coming decade. I have been feeling like so since the death of Monkey Punch and Kazuo Koike.

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Seto Kaiba » Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:13 am

False Prophet wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:27 pm
So there is a Macross-ripoff other than Robotech? Now that I have no idea about.
There've been a few over the years...

The first was a South Korean series from 1983 called Space Gundam V that was made back during a period when Japanese cultural imports were banned in South Korea. The show was a super robot series that stole practically all of its content from elsewhere. The titular super robot was Hikaru's VF-1J from Macross's original series, characters borrowed from elsewhere include Gundam's Amuro Ray, Char Aznable, and Dozle Zabi, and a fair amount of stuff from the story of Brave Raideen.

After the success of Macross Frontier in 2008, Chinese toy firm Xing Yuan produced a 26 episode series that was "strongly inspired" by both Macross Frontier and Mobile Suit Gundam SEED, though they also ripped off some character designs from Mobile Suit Gundam 00 and a fair chunk of the plot from Space Battleship Yamato. It had its own "original" mechanical designs, but the "Type Yi" fighters were very obviously modeled closely on the VF-25 Messiah and VF-1 Valkyrie but are based on the real world Chengdu J-10 and Shenyang J-11, and the ship they sortie from looks suspiciously like the Archangel. Two members of the main cast look suspiciously like Lockon Stratos and Tieria Erde, and five of the six Type Yi fighters are obviously borrowing their paintjobs, resembling respectively, Alto's VF-25F, Michael's VF-25G, Ozma's VF-25S, Allelujah's Kyrios, and Luca's RVF-25. Only unit 4, which is a garish purple thing, doesn't appear to be borrowing. Xing Yuan's response to accusations of plagiarism was to accuse everyone in the anime industry of plagiarism, with the very strange argument that animation originated in Europe so everyone else who uses animation is a copycat (which apparently makes it ok?). The series was reportedly poorly received even in China, and international attention was only garnered because of what an obvious ripoff it was.

There was a really excellent prank pulled involving Astro Plan in which several Macross fans convinced a large number of Robotech fans (via a dummed-up trailer) that Harmony Gold USA had licensed Astro Plan to add to the Robotech franchise as a new Robotech series. Harmony Gold had to issue a public statement that it had no such plans.


False Prophet wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:27 pm
It's Tomino and Miyazaki, two admittedly weirdos of the industry we are talking about. Beside, I have a feeling that we won't see many people of the Mushi generation still doing anime in the coming decade. I have been feeling like so since the death of Monkey Punch and Kazuo Koike.
Kawamori, at least, has a fairly cushy job at Satelight that doesn't require him to do much actual work, and they're part of Sankyo so he can eke out a living supervising original animation for pachinko machines in his dotage.
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