The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk III

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Seto Kaiba
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by Seto Kaiba » Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:33 pm

yazi88 wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:43 am
Yeah, beam saber and beam rifles are rendered useless because of the tough armor of the Nanolaminate armor.
More that the nanolaminate armor is diffusing and reflecting the beam, like we saw with that one ill-fated attempt to block a shot.


yazi88 wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:43 am
I'm actually surprised there weren't any heat powered melee weapons, like heat swords/axes like Zeon used in OYW.
It's a blink-and-you'll-miss-it dialog statement in the first season, but the ammunition used in ship-to-ship combat is apparently explosive incendiary shells loaded with some manner of napalm intended to defeat nanolaminate armor.


SonicSP wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:57 am
Without more information it’s hard to say for sure about the feasibility of beam weapons on mobile suits. With storage of Ahab Particles being impossible, I suspect they can’t do something like the pre-compression in UC that allowed the smaller mobile suits to use ship-class beam cannons (assuming IBO beams are made of Ahab Particles at all, which we don’t know either).
It's not impossible to contain Ahab particles... you just need halfmetal to do it, and that stuff is extremely pricy. From what I've read, pre-disaster cities used Ahab reactors shielded with halfmetal for power.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by SonicSP » Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:14 pm

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:33 pm
It's not impossible to contain Ahab particles... you just need halfmetal to do it, and that stuff is extremely pricy. From what I've read, pre-disaster cities used Ahab reactors shielded with halfmetal for power.
Currently we know that Ahab Particles exist for a small percentage of a second after creation from the Ahab Reactor before they decay into Ahab Waves. (I cant recall the specific time fraction.)

Indeed, Ahab Waves can be blocked with halfmetal but as far as we know it and the particles cannot be stored for later use in a capacitor, like GN Condensers from 00 or E-Caps/E-Pacs from UC, which was what I was getting at. That means the machine equipped with the beam weapon needs to supply 100% of the special particles from the onboard reactor, as opposed to the special beam particles being pre-charged by a larger reactor beforehand and stored.

(That particular hypothesis assumes the IBO beams are made from Ahab Particles - which might not even be the case and maybe not even likely since they’re supposed to decay really fast normally.),

In the case of the Asteroth Origin, supplying compressed Ahab Particles from the reactor to the Gamma Nanolaminate Sword via a wire was apparently already quite unstable even with the more advanced civilization tech of the time, so it seems that storage is likely extremely difficult or outright impossible unless they improve the tech level further.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by Seto Kaiba » Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:35 pm

SonicSP wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:14 pm
Currently we know that Ahab Particles exist for a small percentage of a second after creation from the Ahab Reactor before they decay into Ahab Waves. (I cant recall the specific time fraction.)
Japanese Wiki says an Ahab particle lasts approximately a microsecond.

Of course, it almost immediately contradicts itself by following that up with a statement that Ahab reactors create artificial gravity by circulating a liquid metal medium containing Ahab particles throughout a ship or space station's interior. That suggests that they do have some method for containing Ahab particles for longer than the particle's normal half-life.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by yazi88 » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:34 pm

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:33 pm


yazi88 wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:43 am
I'm actually surprised there weren't any heat powered melee weapons, like heat swords/axes like Zeon used in OYW.
It's a blink-and-you'll-miss-it dialog statement in the first season, but the ammunition used in ship-to-ship combat is apparently explosive incendiary shells loaded with some manner of napalm intended to defeat nanolaminate armor.
Oh yeah, there are heat projectile weapons shown, I'm just surprised it hasn't been applied to melee weapons. But then again, not too many Gundam series outside of UC have heat melee weapons...

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by SonicSP » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:38 pm

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:35 pm
That suggests that they do have some method for containing Ahab particles for longer than the particle's normal half-life.
Hmmm, the ability to delay the particles from almost immediate decay does make it more likely they can be used as beam particles, which is my favorite theory of what they’re made of. The instant decay was my only hesitation before this.

I think they only thing we know Ahab Particles are used for is artificial gravity and G-Force reduction in MS in addition to Asteroth’s Nanolaminate Sword.

Nanolaminate Armor is a bit more confusing, I’ve seen different sources contradict themselves as some say Ahab Waves and some say Ahab Particles. I “think” I recall more saying the latter though it’s been awhile and some of my old compiled notes were deleted in a phone failure. Nanolaminate Sword using Ahab Particles seem to imply that it’s the latter if the technology is similar.

Then again, considering Ahab Particles decay into Ahab Waves almost immediately under natural conditions, maybe all the Nanolaminate Armor sources can be technically right in a way.
yazi88 wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:34 pm
Oh yeah, there are heat projectile weapons shown, I'm just surprised it hasn't been applied to melee weapons. But then again, not too many Gundam series outside of UC have heat melee weapons...
I think 00 also has them, the Green GN Condenser blades seen later in the series converts GN Particles into heat in order melt the armor right before contact, which then further increases the damage from traditional kinetic blows. Gadess’ sword and Kyrios shield’ makes use of them in slightly different implementations of heat though it using the same materials

In regards to heat in IBO, it’s possible that putting them in swords might make maintaining the sword even harder and not worth the extra cost and effort.

The degree of thermal weakness of Nanolaminate Armor is still not totally clear as Biscuit’s statement from Episode 7 was that repeated hits from napalm can melt Nanolaminate Armor. It’s a big statement but we also know from the same arc also that repeated shots to the same spot can also peel of the armor (albeit I assume it takes more shots since ranged ballistic resistance is a stated feature of the armor).

Barbatos also survived re-entry with the armor paint relatively intact, which despite it using another mobile suit as a shield probabaly can’t happen if the thermal weakness was super bad.

So my impression personally has been that heat seems like it does extra damage than normal but probably not to the point that it’s worth putting in everything. Would explain why incendiary bullets are not used in the guns as well.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by yazi88 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:22 am

I'm guessing that the extra Ahab reactors from Gundams give more strength to Nanolaminiate armor, compared to single reactor units. Armor plating is a factor too, as we've seen heavy armor units like the Brewer's Gusion and Man-Rodi/Landman Rodi being more durable with their nanolaminate compared to medium armor like the Graze or light armored Hexa Frame units like Hugo and Gildas. I believe that the Spinner and Garm Rodi's have medium armor compared to the heavy Man/Landman Rodi's.

As for heat weapons in IBO, after thinking about it, heat bladed weapons would probably not be as practical, likely being less durable/more repairs and needing to rely on a battery to power it up, compared to the more simple blunt and peircing melee weapons that will do the job just fine, just gotta be more precise.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by crossbone_and_zaku » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:00 pm

This might be pointless to ask but do the graze moblie suits have thrusters on the feet its got me baffled for a while

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by Seto Kaiba » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:57 pm

crossbone_and_zaku wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:00 pm
This might be pointless to ask but do the graze moblie suits have thrusters on the feet its got me baffled for a while
It's not actually in the feet... it's in the calves.

It probably has a lot to do with them being the only built-in thrusters the Graze has. The others on the thighs or the skirt are optional hardware.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by crossbone_and_zaku » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:00 pm

Thats mad well on a lot of the graze kits there's a hole in the heel of the foot so i thought that was a thruster but that is very odd thanks mate

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by Seto Kaiba » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:07 pm

crossbone_and_zaku wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:00 pm
Thats mad well on a lot of the graze kits there's a hole in the heel of the foot so i thought that was a thruster but that is very odd thanks mate
Must be for a stand or something... there's no hole in the heel in the line art.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by PowerdGNFlag » Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:55 pm

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:07 pm
crossbone_and_zaku wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:00 pm
Thats mad well on a lot of the graze kits there's a hole in the heel of the foot so i thought that was a thruster but that is very odd thanks mate
Must be for a stand or something... there's no hole in the heel in the line art.
To add to this I checked both my Graze kits (1/144 and 1/100) and there's no such detail in the heel (not counting the hollow space in the 1/144).
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