The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk III

[Dustman]

Actually when I went to AX this year the producer of IBO Mr. Sasaki said "he already know the show wasn't going to have a lot of action in the first season but they did it this way so that the viewers would see what the characters are going through so when the season 2 happens the events will be more impact-full" he also said season 2 would have more action.

Well that's reassuring at least. I don't care that the show has been light on combat but the action it does sorely lack is propulsive energy and dramatic character arcs. It did come close in the late phases of the first season but the only character who I could truly understand as an agent with choices and consequences was Gaelio. At times, Tekkadan are so cult-like in their devotion to unity that, when faced with overwhelming tragedy, they are more likely to agree upon a lovers' suicide than they are to drift apart by developing individual perspectives.

I recognize he cares a lot, actually. And he's more transparent than Heero or Setsuna about that. It's just that he has this outwardly apathetic vibe about him that sort of leaves me hanging a bit. It's not a deal-breaker, though.

You're watching the dub, right? Mikazuki's range of emotion is honestly far more nuanced in Japanese. It feels as though the direction he's been given has been deadpan instead of introspective.

[Brave Fencer Kirby]

You're watching the dub, right? Mikazuki's range of emotion is honestly far more nuanced in Japanese. It feels as though the direction he's been given has been deadpan instead of introspective.

I would disagree with that. I watched the sub as it was released and I'm watching the dub as it airs, and I think the dub has generally been excellent.

On Mika in general, I find him an interesting character because I think he's the best depiction of a child soldier that Gundam has had yet. Both Heero and Setsuna had the problem that they were, in the end, idealists. They fought because they had big, world-changing ideas that they wanted to make a reality. That's not a bad thing in a character, but it doesn't really strike me as a likely response of someone who's been fighting and killing since they were a child.

Mika, on the other hand, has very modest goals. He wants to protect his friends. He wants to survive long enough to retire from the mercenary business and then spend the rest of his life doing something that doesn't require him to risk messy death on a regular basis. And he's utterly, amorally ruthless in pursuit of that. It makes him fantastic in a fight, but more than a little "off" in any other circumstance. It's a fascinating character dynamic, and one that feels more true to life than Heero or Setsuna did.

[LightningCount]

To answer the question: I started with the Japanese, but am now watching the English dub. In the three episodes I watched in Japanese, Mika sounded distant and stoic, as I recall. In the English dub, there's a bit of a flippant, apathetic vibe, but he does sound more human to me. Yet when I say apathetic, it's like, every other time I see him popping those snacks of his, his tone of voice could be saying "Whatever, I'm doing my thing." I know this is just my impression, but rather than being annoying or tough, I find it sort of humorous. (That's not to say the dub is bad, as I like it quite a bit; I'd say, from my limited experience, that Orga has undergone a shift from sub to dub more than Mika. He gave the impression of being older and more experienced/accomplished in the sub.)

As I said, I totally agree that he's different than Heero or Setsuna, despite having a vaguely similar basic setup and tone. Setsuna I found to be a little too self-righteous for my tastes, and his S2 calls for evolution felt forced to me, but I appreciated his intensity. Heero, no surprise, I've liked him because he had that intensity, but also seemed to be carrying the weight of the world on him the way he reacted to failure, and it was his encounters with others that brought him out of his shell as far as he could be brought out, and challenged his view that his life really didn't matter, whereas his intensity brought out courage in those he touched. Ironically, I'd say that Mika is the most well-adjusted of these characters; he has normal goals for his life, and sees his life as valuable, not disposable.

Obviously, as a main character, Mika does stand out in the group of characters presented, and I also respect his function in the story. It's just that right now, I don't get the charisma from him that I like in characters, but I don't necessarily expect that. I'm just letting the experience come as it will. That's the best I can express it right now. Whether that's it or not, I'm not fully clicking with the cast of characters, but that doesn't necessarily mean there's anything inherently wrong with them.

[Dustman]

On the subject of characterization, what makes Mikazuki different is that Heero learned to reclaim his empathy and Setsuna had to correct a warped perspective that was nonetheless motivated by empathy. In stark contrast, Mikazuki is a fully formed person from his introduction. This is actually very unnerving to me because of his frequent and cavalier brutality. More troubling is how the story makes little effort toward acknowledging that as abnormal or disturbing behavior. Perhaps this response is conditioning from similar protagonists who did have severe emotional trauma, that seeing somebody remain relatively normal is now more frightening than extreme characters who must rebuild themselves. However, this has been problematic for me with regards to Tekkadan because it's an unwillingness to portray them as mercenary. Every signal I've received is that this is what the creators consider healthy even while those moments are being used for shock. It's all well and good but the real issue is that this surplus of generosity has been a distraction from what could become a compelling exploration about how the orphans were raised.

[Amion]

They live in a world that, even within Gjallarnhorn in an abstract sense, is and at least has been mercenary for a while. They don't even give burials on Mars, or at least not Chrys. Killing for them is a necessity that's been there from the start. Those who don't probably end up as Human Debris.

And we all know what they end up doing with their lives.

[Brave Fencer Kirby]

This is actually very unnerving to me because of his frequent and cavalier brutality. More troubling is how the story makes little effort toward acknowledging that as abnormal or disturbing behavior. Perhaps this response is conditioning from similar protagonists who did have severe emotional trauma, that seeing somebody remain relatively normal is now more frightening than extreme characters who must rebuild themselves.

This is exactly what I find interesting about Mika. He's certainly been affected by his experiences, but he's not portrayed as fundamentally broken like Heero and Setsuna were, and thus there's no possibility of "fixing" him so that he can be "normal" again. For him -- and everyone else in Tekkadan -- fighting and killing and dying is normal. Hell, the kids in Tekkadan are the lucky ones. The unlucky ones starve to death on the streets.

I would disagree that the show doesn't consider this version of "normal" disturbing, though. Spoiler tagging for LightningCount's sake:

Spoiler

The people who fight for a living -- CGS, Tekkadan, the Turbines, Gjallarhorn, etc -- all treat fighting for a living as normal (which is understandable, because for them it is), but outsiders do not. Kudelia has trouble accepting it at first, but gets over it relatively quickly given that she throws in with Tekkadan and ends up in the "fight or be killed" situation right alongside them. The main person who provides the "this is all wrong!" attitude is Merribit, who -- being a Teiwaz employee and essentially a bureaucrat -- is somewhat more emotionally distant from the whole situation. In some ways this gives her a bit of objectivity that Tekkadan sorely needs (she's usually the one who points out when Orga is going off half-cocked, for instance), but it also means that she's pretty much the only one who reacts to how messed up the whole "rag-tag group of orphans throwing themselves against an elite military organization" thing actually is.

What the narrative recognizes (and Merribit doesn't) is that the problem isn't with the Tekkadan kids. Orga, Biscuit, Mika et al are acting reasonably given the situation they find themselves in and the options available to them. Yes, they're throwing themselves into life-or-death situations, but every other option they have is worse. Merribit sees what they're doing and realizes that it's wrong, so she wants them to do something else. She wants to blame the Tekkadan kids for deciding to fight, but they're not at fault -- it's the miserable situation of the world under Gjallarhorn's rule that's to blame. Tekkadan's mechanic (whose name I always forget, since the kids never call him anything but "old man") also recognizes how wrong the situation is, but unlike Merribit, he understands that they're taking the best of a bunch of bad options.

In other words, I think that the show considers Tekkadan's actions a sad necessity more than anything else. It acknowledges that Tekkadan's choices are forced by the situation they're in, and puts the blame on the situation (and, indirectly, all that people that created and exploited the system that led to the current situation) rather than on Tekkadan. The show doesn't act like Tekkadan's actions are disturbing. Instead, it (correctly, in my opinion) treats the situation that forced them to make those decisions in the first place as the problem.

[Dustman]

Before saying much else or driving myself in circles trying to analyze it, I should probably ask the most fundamental question I can think of: "Is Tekkadan supposed to be normal?"

I'm not really looking for an in depth answer, it's just a point of curiosity. What's your gut instinct, the first answer you thought of without any corroborating evidence? The dissonance I'm trying to express might be because I've been under the impression that they're not normal and that this would be the point of using their perspective to navigate such a sleazy setting, and that Kudelia would serve as our foothold in real world expectations. (In an early episode, one cutaway to life on Mars showed child prostitutes... where were the moral guardians who complained about Kira and Flay for that scene? Jeez.)

Instead, our heroes aren't just well adjusted and nurturing, they're quirky and innocent. Every step of the way, I thought Tekkadan (or maybe just Orga) would begin to be overtly consumed by the conspiracy or that their relationships would break down as they began to develop competing viewpoints in the face of adversity (and in the presence of women, or something? You know, since all our principal ladies are motherly and/or cheerleaders, in some capacity or another...) Maybe I was wrong, maybe there really is no cynical undercurrent to their violent streak and they've seriously managed to avoid total dehumanization. But this leaves me at a loss as to what they've had to gain from their adventure, other than the prestige of a stellar debut. Consequently, they are reactionary protagonists caught up in a larger plan which remains opaque.

That said, it's not like I'm declaring this a failure. It's just that this seems to be where I've failed to connect with the actual plot. But if this has been crafted with a steady hand, the show's creative balance depends on the second season. I'm definitely interested in what comes next. All I'm really worried about is how much the elements will coalesce and how much agency Tekkadan will have from now on.

[Amion]

I don't think this was steady as I or others first believed. There was that one interview that pretty much dictates that the journey to Earth was about the extent of the plot. What comes next will probably not fit in as well with what we got by virtue of this.

[Brave Fencer Kirby]

Before saying much else or driving myself in circles trying to analyze it, I should probably ask the most fundamental question I can think of: "Is Tekkadan supposed to be normal?"

My take on it is that Tekkadan are supposed to be normal kids in an abnormal situation. They're normal in the sense that they aren't psychologically damaged by their experiences -- they're not like Heero or Setsuna or even Kira, who have mental problems from the situations they lived through. The only one who even comes close to being an exception is Mika, but even he's pretty normal compared to Heero (suicidal), Setsuna (fanatic), Kira (PTSD), etc. Tekkadan in general is remarkably well adjusted, given that they're child soldiers who were systematically abused by their caretakers, and some of them were literal slaves.

(In an early episode, one cutaway to life on Mars showed child prostitutes... where were the moral guardians who complained about Kira and Flay for that scene? Jeez.)

Hm, do you remember when that was? I don't recall anything like that. We see kids literally starving to death on the streets, but I don't remember anything suggesting child prostitution. It's mentioned at one point that Atra grew up in a brothel -- but it's specifically mentioned that she wasn't a whore, she did menial labor (cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc).

Maybe I was wrong, maybe there really is no cynical undercurrent to their violent streak and they've seriously managed to avoid total dehumanization. But this leaves me at a loss as to what they've had to gain from their adventure, other than the prestige of a stellar debut. Consequently, they are reactionary protagonists caught up in a larger plan which remains opaque.

Tekkadan's story arc is ultimately about them gaining their independence and learning to support themselves, to stand on their own without relying on charity or becoming someone else's tool. At the beginning of the series, they're cannon fodder, used as a disposable resource to enrich others. They reject this situation, overthrow their would-be masters, and start operating independently -- responsible to no one but themselves. The rest of the show is them trying to make this stick, facing the struggles of trying to survive on their own and overcoming them.

This theme is repeated several times. Kudelia wants to achieve this self-reliant independence for Mars as a whole, instead of being under the collective thumb of Gjallarhorn and Earth's economic blocks, which makes her a kindred spirit with Tekkadan. The Turbines have already achieved their independence, so they act as sort of mentors and role models for Tekkadan. The Brewers are in the same position that Tekkadan was before the series started, forced to work for ruthless masters, unable to break free (yet). The Dort colonies are another example, with the people who want to break free from Gjallarhorn.

They're all foils for Tekkadan in one way or another. What Tekkadan used to be. What Tekkadan hopes to be. What Tekkadan could turn out as if things go wrong.

As far as the second season goes...

Spoiler

You mention concerns that Tekkadan are reactionary protagonists caught in a scheme they don't understand. I think that's going to be the main conflict of the second season. Season one is about Tekkadan escaping from under the shadow of CGS and establishing themselves as an independent power. This doesn't mean that they exist in a vacuum -- they work for Teiwaz so they have obligations there, and McGillis's assistance certainly wasn't without ulterior motives, so they'll have to deal with that as well. But as of the end of season one, they've proven themselves as a mercenary company, they've established political allies in Kudelia and Makanai, and they're no longer so strapped for cash that they're as risk of bankruptcy. They're in a pretty good position, generally speaking.

My guess is that the second season is going to revolve around the same theme of fighting for your own independence, but on a larger scale. That probably means both in terms of scope (fighting for independence from "soft power" like business ties and political scheming instead of just actual physical freedom from being used as cannon fodder and starving to death) and and in terms of scale (like fighting for the independence of all of Mars, or even the solar system in general, instead of just their own personal freedom). It's like a hierarchy of needs think -- now that they've established the basics, they're able to pay attention to more abstract things, like political and economic freedom instead of just base physical necessities.

[yazi88]

Compared to Setsuna from season 1 of 00 and Heero, I'm finding Mika to be more interesting cause unlike Heero for the most part, Mika cares for his comrades and looks out for them, while Heero does his own thing and doesn't really bother to care what goes on to the other pilots until late in the show.

Mika is actually quiet in combat which is VERY rare for Gundam pilots, Setsuna keeps blathering Gundam quite often which got annoying to me despite knowing the significance of the Gundams to him. I don't recall Mika even yelling in combat or preaching really. The ENEMIES are the ones preaching to him which is rather amusing. Although that beast like anger and mentality also helps Mika stand out as a Gundam protagonist, he grew up in a really awful environment and unlike Heero and Setsuna, was left in that environment but learned to survive in it by Orga's help and guidance.

But I will agree that there is some growth to be seen on Mika, hopefully season 2 will address that.

Mika's goal of owning a farm and learning to read is a pleasant goal that atleast tells us that he has something he wants to do after the fighting is done. We'll see if season 2 explores this goal further.

[X_zoro]

Compared to Setsuna from season 1 of 00 and Heero, I'm finding Mika to be more interesting cause unlike Heero for the most part, Mika cares for his comrades and looks out for them, while Heero does his own thing and doesn't really bother to care what goes on to the other pilots until late in the show.

Mika is actually quiet in combat which is VERY rare for Gundam pilots, Setsuna keeps blathering Gundam quite often which got annoying to me despite knowing the significance of the Gundams to him. I don't recall Mika even yelling in combat or preaching really. The ENEMIES are the ones preaching to him which is rather amusing. Although that beast like anger and mentality also helps Mika stand out as a Gundam protagonist, he grew up in a really awful environment and unlike Heero and Setsuna, was left in that environment but learned to survive in it by Orga's help and guidance.

But I will agree that there is some growth to be seen on Mika, hopefully season 2 will address that.

Mika's goal of owning a farm and learning to read is a pleasant goal that atleast tells us that he has something he wants to do after the fighting is done. We'll see if season 2 explores this goal further.

When I see a Yazi Comment like this I cry tears of joy My friend mad respect.

[LightningCount]

Question: How old are the characters in this series? I know there are a few different classes within Tekkadan. One of the characters essentially said he was 13 in the latest episode to air on Toonami, if I heard right. How old are Orga and Biscuit?

[BrentD15]

Question: How old are the characters in this series? I know there are a few different classes within Tekkadan. One of the characters essentially said he was 13 in the latest episode to air on Toonami, if I heard right. How old are Orga and Biscuit?

I presume they're in their late teens, if not early twenties.

[LightningCount]

Question: How old are the characters in this series? I know there are a few different classes within Tekkadan. One of the characters essentially said he was 13 in the latest episode to air on Toonami, if I heard right. How old are Orga and Biscuit?

I presume they're in their late teens, if not early twenties.

That's what I presume, as well. But I'm not sure. Sometimes the dialogue about how they're all kids makes me wonder if Orga's only 16 or so. I'm just trying to better understand the dynamics between different characters, since the interactions between adults and children seems to be a major theme (and even the interactions between junior and senior members of Tekkadan, like Akihiro talking with Takaki Uno, and Biscuit talking with Takaki, as well--though, I can't tell how far apart they are from one another). I was also wondering because they seem to be hinting at a possible relationship brewing between Merribit Stapleton and Orga, but I don't really know their age differences, and they keep talking about how Merribit is an adult. I suppose that means everyone in Tekkadan is under the age of 18 perhaps?

[Areku]

I'm just trying to better understand the dynamics between different characters, since the interactions between adults and children seems to be a major theme... I suppose that means everyone in Tekkadan is under the age of 18 perhaps?

I generally assume that a given anime adheres to the Japanese perspective until it presents something that logically contradicts it. In this case, the age of majority in Japan is 20, so that could provide a little more flexibility.

[Dustman]

(In an early episode, one cutaway to life on Mars showed child prostitutes... where were the moral guardians who complained about Kira and Flay for that scene? Jeez.)

Hm, do you remember when that was? I don't recall anything like that. We see kids literally starving to death on the streets, but I don't remember anything suggesting child prostitution. It's mentioned at one point that Atra grew up in a brothel -- but it's specifically mentioned that she wasn't a whore, she did menial labor (cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc).

I'm sorry to reply late - I've been very busy and I mostly intended to phrase my observations as rhetorical (unfortunately, I don't really have much else to contribute to this subject as a result). Still, I'd like to source my claim: At about 13 minutes into episode 2, after the eyecatch, Kudelia gives a speech and vignettes of miserable children on Mars are shown. One has very young girls in an alley, wearing nicer dresses than any Martian child should afford, and a man standing at the entrance and facing the public. What's being implied here is that is he's selling their bodies.

[X_zoro]

second PV https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8tHqYrzf34

[E08]

Official Website also updated with S2 character profiles. Link: http://g-tekketsu.com/2nd/character/
Below are some rough info.

*Tekkadan
-Tekkadan has an earth branch, known members include Chad, Takaki, Aston (ex-brewers) and a new auditor guy (seems to clash with other Tekkadan members often).
-Eugene is the Tekkadan's deputy leader. Sometimes command battle in place of Orga. Busy studying up on battle tactics.
-Norba is the leader of the first group (or whatever they call it) and the trainer for new recruits. Other known members of the first group are Dante and Delma (ex-brewers)
-Akihiro is the leader of the second group, excel at defensive battles/missions. Currently Ride is the other known member of the second group.
-Yukinojo's maintenance knowledge has increased thanks to assistance from Teiwaz.
-Nothing new for Yamagi, Atra in charge of food and Merribit is the manager of Tekkadan's Mars HQ.
-Three new named recruits. The large size one is a mechanic.

*Admoss company
-Kudelia she set up the company, which seems to be involved in Half Metal processing and distribution. The other lady is the company's secretary.

*Gjallarhorn
-McGillis takes up Carta's position. Seems to be working on reducing the mistrust between Gjallarhorn and the economic blocs. Attends the Seven Stars meeting as the head of the Fareed Family. Influence within Gjallarhorn increasing.
-The young guy in blue uniform is McGillis' subordinate. Through his own network knowns about matters in the Outer Sphere well, and also an excellent pilot.
-Extra: McGillis is piloting a revised Graze Ritter(no change in appearance but better mobility under gravity), his Schwalbe Graze is handed down to his subordinate.
-Old guy is the head of the Arianrhod fleet, and the head of a Seven Stars family. Well liked by his subordinates. Has a firm power(?) base in Gjallarhorn, keeping an eye on McGillis as well as keeping him in check
-Young, dark haired guy in green Arianrhod fleet uniform is the leader of fleet's first corp and participates in battle sometimes. Head of a Seven Stars family.
-Young, blond female (? i think…) is an excellent MS pilot and a member of the Arianrhod fleet. Has her own customise MS.

Edit:For some crazy reason, i wrongly see 'Admoss' as 'Montag'. Have corrected the mistake

[X_zoro]

Official Website also updated with S2 character profiles. Link: http://g-tekketsu.com/2nd/character/
Below are some rough info.

*Tekkadan
-Tekkadan has an earth branch, known members include Chad, Takaki, Aston (ex-brewers) and a new auditor guy (seems to clash with other Tekkadan members often).
-Eugene is the Tekkadan's deputy leader. Sometimes command battle in place of Orga. Busy studying up on battle tactics.
-Norba is the leader of the first group (or whatever they call it) and the trainer for new recruits. Other known members of the first group are Dante and Delma (ex-brewers)
-Akihiro is the leader of the second group, excel at defensive battles/missions. Currently Ride is the other known member of the second group.
-Yukinojo's maintenance knowledge has increased thanks to assistance from Teiwaz.
-Nothing new for Yamagi, Atra in charge of food and Merribit is the manager of Tekkadan's Mars HQ.
-Three new named recruits. The large size one is a mechanic.

*Admoss company
-Kudelia she set up the company, which seems to be involved in Half Metal processing and distribution. The other lady is the company's secretary.

*Gjallarhorn
-McGillis takes up Carta's position. Seems to be working on reducing the mistrust between Gjallarhorn and the economic blocs. Attends the Seven Stars meeting as the head of the Fareed Family. Influence within Gjallarhorn increasing.
-The young guy in blue uniform is McGillis' subordinate. Through his own network knowns about matters in the Outer Sphere well, and also an excellent pilot.
-Extra: McGillis is piloting a revised Graze Ritter(no change in appearance but better mobility under gravity), his Schwalbe Graze is handed down to his subordinate.
-Old guy is the head of the Arianrhod fleet, and the head of a Seven Stars family. Well liked by his subordinates. Has a firm power(?) base in Gjallarhorn, keeping an eye on McGillis as well as keeping him in check
-Young, dark haired guy in green Arianrhod fleet uniform is the leader of fleet's first corp and participates in battle sometimes. Head of a Seven Stars family.
-Young, blond female (? i think…) is an excellent MS pilot and a member of the Arianrhod fleet. Has her own customise MS.

Edit:For some crazy reason, i wrongly see 'Admoss' as 'Montag'. Have corrected the mistake

You forgot the one dude who has something to do with Mikazuki.

[E08]

He is part of the three new named recruits i mentioned. He has a strong fixation/obsession with Mika due to past events. Also Kudelia seems to be running around trying to help the unemployed find work.