X_zoro wrote:Looks more Like Sword then a club ( judging by the art tho ) I really want season 1 to do well in Toonami so they can get season 2
Apparently the weapon is now being called a sword mace.
Either way best of both worlds I guess.
Ha! I called it a sword mace from when Barbatos Lupus and all the IBO season 2 info was revealed! Didn't think that it actually might be one for sure and I saw others calling it a large mace, a bat, etc, so I was just waiting for confirmation. But that's how I saw it in the first place. A sword mace. Wonder if it'll get a proper name though rather than the generic "sword mace".
Kuruni wrote:Or you can join the darkside with me, wrickles is no concern to lolicon fetish anyway .
You're obsessed! I prefer my thick women with actual assets! Especially a nice ass!
If it has a pointy end, that will make it even better.
On that note, subsuquent rewatches of IBO have left with as good an impression of Dort as it did the first time. I'm sorry to say, but the Teiwaz/Brewers arc just killed the pacing. There really did need to be a step up on the battles in those episodes, be it in quantity or quality. The cheesy writing, too, was just too much to handle without a pleasing distraction.
As for Dort, it takes everything done wrong with the previous arc and stands it on its head, even down to the brother dynamic. Too bad it didn't enjoy more fighting somehow, and wasn't faster paced by episode 15-16. At least it granted us a memorable death and development.
I actually think the Teiwaz episodes are mostly fine. Some of the thematic sentimentality feels a bit artificial but the character interactions and setting establishment are fairly grounded. The real problem is that it culminates in the drama with Akihiro's brother, which is arbitrary and demands unearned emotional vestment. I might even suggest that the failure for this subplot to be woven into the story structure is how the rest of the arc ends up feeling like it had no point. This really could have all been avoided had we learned about their separation during the Mars episodes instead of mere moments before they actually found him. Having him slide back into focus during a part of the story that is relevant would subconsciously invoke a sense of payoff. It's so elementary that I'm baffled they didn't think to do it while they had the chance, especially with so much of the show's attention going to mundane interpersonal chemistry.
On another note, I've been keeping up with the Toonami broadcast (as a cord cutter, this means I missed on the premiere before learning about the official live stream) and the dub is honestly pretty decent if not unremarkable. The vets all do a great job and the younger talent isn't very distinguished but their efforts are respectable. That said, I'd hate to sound like a snob but my one peeve with the dub would be the very Californian pronunciation of "Mikazuki." It's not a big deal but it's incredibly amusing to me because Tony Oliver also directed the Eureka Seven dub, which was fervent about coaching accentuation for both the heroine's name and for the series title. You'd think they could expend the same effort to ease how freakishly awkward that sharp "zooki" sounds! :p
It's honestly very strange to be watching a new Gundam dub on live television. I voluntarily lost touch with the franchise after SD Gundam Force and I didn't return until the SEED remaster. The last time I saw a major broadcast was G Gundam in 2002. Though unrelated to the quality of the series, this is an experience that has actually imbued IBO with greater value for me because of an endless curiosity about the way younger fans are experiencing it. While I'm still not attached to IBO itself, internally I feel like something has come full circle and this connection has given me a valuable new perspective in lieu of what may otherwise be a dry spell where I'm only actively in love with The Origin.
The problem with the Teiwaz arc isn't its content in my opinion, but it's pacing. Older anime tends to move faster than nowadays. Most Tomino stories seem to move at breakneck pace by comparison, simply for not wasting precious seconds, even minutes, on conversations with still panels. That builds up to whole arcs like the Teiwaz one that could have been resolved in half the time.
As to the Brewers, I don't feel like it had no point. It was an indirect move by McGillis to slow down or obstruct the heroes' advance to Earth, while also giving Akahiro a Gundam of his own.
It is even possible the Breweres are but a symptom of larger forces at work. They had a Gundam frame, and clearly that means absolutely nothing, since CGS found one lying in the middle of nowhere. However, Naze's dialogue indicates a stepping up of firepower on the part of pirate forces in recent years. There's no telling if that will become an issue later. Hopefully not, since pirates a needless third wheel when we already have three planetary governments, not all of which are united, plus Tekkadan and Gjallarhorn. But I digress.
Dustman wrote:I actually think the Teiwaz episodes are mostly fine. Some of the thematic sentimentality feels a bit artificial but the character interactions and setting establishment are fairly grounded. The real problem is that it culminates in the drama with Akihiro's brother, which is arbitrary and demands unearned emotional vestment.
I Actually half agree with you, yeah the pacing in the Akihiro episodes need a little work, but I liked the exaction with his brother, that was the episode that made me a fan of his plus I do relate to him becasue ( getting a little personal here ) I've lost my younger brother to heart cancer so for me it wasn't forced or unearned, but everything else I agree with.
X_zoro wrote:I've lost my younger brother to heart cancer so for me it wasn't forced or unearned, but everything else I agree with.
It sounds like whatever emotion you felt wasn't something set up by the show, but rather you re-experiencing your own emotional baggage; you did the work of setting up the emotional investment, not the show, and attributing the, uh, "payoff", to the show is mistaken.
X_zoro wrote:I've lost my younger brother to heart cancer so for me it wasn't forced or unearned, but everything else I agree with.
It sounds like whatever emotion you felt wasn't something set up by the show, but rather you re-experiencing your own emotional baggage; you did the work of setting up the emotional investment, not the show, and attributing the, uh, "payoff", to the show is mistaken.
This was two years ago and this anime, pretty much give me relate able characters like akihiro, I didn't set up the emotion becasue through out those episodes I thought masahiro was going to join tekkadan (how most anime do nowadays ) but the show proved me wrong, and the pay off was good after the episode ended, I went straight to my mom and give her a hug. (also Please don't speak as if you know me its quite insulting, thank you very much)
X_zoro wrote: (also Please don't speak as if you know me its quite insulting, thank you very much)
To risk sounding nitpicky...
X_zoro wrote:plus I do relate to him because (getting a little personal here) I've lost my younger brother to heart cancer so for me it wasn't forced or unearned, but everything else I agree with.
Your description practically spells out that your own past was the only reason you found the depicted events to be emotionally relatable. Perhaps that isn't what you were trying to convey, but it's what you conveyed nevertheless.
To most other people, Masahiro was portrayed as "Oh by the way Akihiro has a brother and now they're fighting and now they're yelling at each other and - Oh, now the brother's dead and here are some crying faces". Masahiro was treated as a plot device first and foremost rather than an actual character/person, and we weren't given enough foreshadowing of the eventual conflict or advance establishment that Akihiro had a long-lost brother to develop a meaningful reaction to his situation beyond the classic characters-are-crying-therefore-I-should-be-sad evolutionary response. The whole ordeal came off as some blend of mechanical, lazy and rushed.
The saddest part of the scenario, at least to me, was that the show went out of its way to firmly and repeatedly emphasize that the "human debris" system is starkly dehumanizing and therefore bad, then they used and portrayed Masahiro as a plot device rather than a true character anyway.
I'm glad you liked what you saw and I don't want to diminish anything you got out of it, but it still sounds like you're giving the show credit for development that wasn't actually there.
X_zoro wrote: (also Please don't speak as if you know me its quite insulting, thank you very much)
To risk sounding nitpicky...
X_zoro wrote:plus I do relate to him becasue ... I've lost my younger brother to heart cancer so for me it wasn't forced or unearned, but everything else I agree with.
Your description practically spells out that your own past was the only reason you found the depicted events to be emotionally relatable. Perhaps that isn't what you were trying to convey, but it's what you conveyed nevertheless.
To most other people, Masahiro was portrayed as "Oh by the way Akihiro has a brother and now they're fighting and now they're yelling at each other and - Oh, now the brother's dead and here are some crying faces". Masahiro was treated as a plot device first and foremost rather than an actual character/person, and we weren't given enough foreshadowing of the eventual conflict or advance establishment that Akihiro had a long-lost brother to develop a meaningful reaction to his situation beyond the classic characters-are-crying-therefore-I-should-be-sad evolutionary response. The whole ordeal came off as some blend of mechanical, lazy and rushed.
The saddest part of the scenario, at least to me, was that the show went out of its way to firmly and repeatedly emphasize that the "human debris" system is starkly dehumanizing and therefore bad, then they used and portrayed Masahiro as a plot device rather than a true character anyway.
I'm glad you liked what you saw and I don't want to diminish anything you got out of it, but it still sounds like you're giving the show credit for development that wasn't actually there.
I'm speaking for myself ( the viewer who did enjoy it ) the thing is for me the development for Akihiro, while it might not have been as good as Biscuits, but it still give me emotions and feelings that I would never get from other anime ( and I'm not a easy person to make cry )
I'm very sorry to hear about your brother. I'd like to say that I love and respect that this subplot touched you as it did and you should absolutely value that experience. Being able to positively receive and internalize those kinds of signals is just as important as its ability to communicate with broad effect. I appreciate that you'd be so willing to open up and be honest about the root of those feelings and that you'd voluntarily separate and acknowledge the subjectivity of your experience. That's a great skill to have and I've heard your intentions loud and clear.
For what it's worth, I think Akihiro's one of my two favorite male characters in the series. Alhough... now that I say that, I think this contributes even more to my disappointment with his implementation. As the secondary Gundam pilot, he probably deserves higher story priority than what he's been given and my suggestion for establishing Masahiro sooner would have served that purpose. And not just that, on it's own it certainly would've had more zest as a mid-season arc if it had been about a main character! :p
Dustman wrote:I'm very sorry to hear about your brother. I'd like to say that I love and respect that this subplot touched you as it did and you should absolutely value that experience. Being able to positively receive and internalize those kinds of signals is just as important as its ability to communicate with broad effect. I appreciate that you'd be so willing to open up and be honest about the root of those feelings and that you'd voluntarily separate and acknowledge the subjectivity of your experience. That's a great skill to have and I've heard your intentions loud and clear.
For what it's worth, I think Akihiro's one of my two favorite male characters in the series. Alhough... now that I say that, I think this contributes even more to my disappointment with his implementation. As the secondary Gundam pilot, he probably deserves higher story priority than what he's been given and my suggestion for establishing Masahiro sooner would have served that purpose. And not just that, on it's own it certainly would've had more zest as a mid-season arc if it had been about a main character! :p
Thank you very much but please don't worry about it, I learned a lot since then, about death and the acceptance of death ( which funny enough are the themes of IBO ) also this my seem of topic but has anyone got the Iron-Blooded Orphans Completion Book ? it has interviews and actors commentary about the 1st and the upcoming 2nd season of the Mobile Suit Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans animated series. http://gundamguy.blogspot.ca/2016/07/mo ... ooded.html has anyone
translated it ? thanks very much if someone did.
Never mind it comes out Aug 18th I gonna buy it, but I don't know a lick about translation
I've been keeping up with the Toonami broadcast after leaving the original stream release with Episode 3. So, now I've seen Episodes 4 through 8. My opinion has improved a little bit, but on the whole, I'm still left with a "solid-not-spectacular" kind of feeling so far. Episode 4 was the first episode where I really felt something for the characters, and I thought the cornfield encounter between Gjallarhorn and the good guys was pretty neat (though, I thought McGillis was either going to put two-and-two together faster, or at least step in and physically stop Mikazuki's punishment of Gaelio). Episode 5 was my favorite of the first five episodes, and I liked how it kept the pacing moving forward.
Episode 6 slowed things down on purpose, but seemed to drag and meander with elements I really didn't care for. I understand that the "learn to read and write" subplot was there to emphasize the themes of this series, but since I still don't care too much for the cast of characters, it didn't do much for me other than serve as sort of clinical, functional storytelling. But I can see how one's mileage could vary. Episode 7 was perhaps the best episode yet, and not just because of the action, but because of how it included a number of new elements to shake up the cast and further move the identity of this Gundam series away from its brethren. A mafia idea like Teiwaz is interesting, and I liked how Tekkadan was able to stand up to them...but then...Episode 8 really pushed things off the rails again for me. The way the women characters are set up here, even if it hits the series' themes by offering a parallel of sorts to the "used and abused" existence of the main male characters, just felt tacky and too far to me. From what I've heard around here, there's going to be a lot of sitting around with Teiwaz, and I'm not sure I'll like that. There is a lot of potential here, but this could easily become a really weird, distracting slice-of-life show if it's not careful. But then, this series has its own aims, and maybe they're best served by that. I'll have to wait and see.
The animation has been a little bit of a mixed bag. I think the sense of incidental atmosphere has gotten better as the series has gone along. The CG for the ships is pretty workmanlike, but serves its purpose. The mobile suits have flashes of greatness followed by a bit of awkwardness. Mecha design is all right, but hasn't fully captured my interest yet. How the characters move, emote, and keep on model or not is fairly average. On the whole, though, I don't have a problem with the animation.
I've warmed up slightly to the characters, but I'm still not fans of them. Their underdog status is what's most appealing so far. I think Akihiro is my favorite, and I liked in Episode 7 how surprisingly selfless and stick-to-it he was in battle. I'm not sure if it's been pointed out yet, but it strikes me that Gaelio and McGillis might have been inspired by Char and Garma. I sort of find them to be interesting, too, although they're not necessarily the main characters. Well, that's the gist of what I have to say so far. I was waiting to see a good chunk of episodes before sharing any thoughts like this. I do respect that as it's gone along, it has strayed further from Gundam formulas, but even with that taken into consideration, it's very middle-of-the-road/pack for me right now.
My Mecha/Scifi Novels: https://www.goodreads.com/series/168677 ... -war-arm-x "May you rest in peace, the betrayed and outraged Milliardo Peacecraft." Most-Wanted Gundam Anime:Episode Zero, Blue Destiny, Rise from the Ashes, Crossbone
^You will almost want to drop this series until it gets to 13-14. The Teiwaz arc is horrendously paced and mostly useless, something like 12 minutes of MS action within 4 episodes. I legit got angry at this series until the 2nd half where it straightened out to build up to the best finales I've seen in Gundam.
Unfortunately, I think LightningCount's evaluations are completely on point and I'd be lying if I said that he'll find something more to like about the series. I wouldn't say that this is one of the "bad" Gundams but I don't think the season finale was enough to vindicate the journey, and while I've previously expressed optimism for the second season, I honestly doubt that Nagai and Okada are inclined to alter their own priorities. I think Sunrise might have been hoping that they could recapture the style and success of SEED and 00, but my fear is that they will continue to be overly modest and that it will result in a Gundam series that is neither great, nor awful, but completely forgettable.
It's generally agreed even among fans of the show that the middle section -- roughly where you are now to about episode 14 or so -- is the weakest part of the show, mostly do to poor pacing. It's not bad, but it certainly would have benefitted from some tighter plotting. It's also more character-focused than action-focused, which may be a problem for you if you don't actually care all that much about the characters. Akihiro gets the spotlight for a few episodes, though, so if you like him you'll probably appreciate that.
McGillis and Gaelio are very much based on Char and Garma, right down to their character designs (blond and purple hair, respectively). It's not a one-to-one mapping (their roles are reversed in that Gaelio is McGillis' subordinate rather than the other way around, for one) but the reference is pretty clear. Things are a bit more complicated than it seems at first glance, but that gets spoiler-y, so I'll forbear from comment on that particular dynamic.
Really, what it comes down to is that if you don't really care about the characters then it's hard to like the show (unless it's a show focusing on mindless spectacle along the lines of "who cares about the characters, show more explosions!", which IBO is not). I was pretty sold on IBO's characters from the beginning, so I can't really comment on being "meh" about them, and I really like IBO's style of action (relatively small fights with enemies that are actually threatening, rather than super ace pilots in ridiculously powerful mecha cutting down hapless mooks by the truckload), so I personally thought IBO was really, really good. But, you know, no accounting for taste. If it's not your speed, then there's nothing wrong with that.
Dustman wrote:Unfortunately, I think LightningCount's evaluations are completely on point and I'd be lying if I said that he'll find something more to like about the series. I wouldn't say that this is one of the "bad" Gundams but I don't think the season finale was enough to vindicate the journey, and while I've previously expressed optimism for the second season, I honestly doubt that Nagai and Okada are inclined to alter their own priorities. I think Sunrise might have been hoping that they could recapture the style and success of SEED and 00, but my fear is that they will continue to be overly modest and that it will result in a Gundam series that is neither great, nor awful, but completely forgettable.
Actually when I went to AX this year the producer of IBO Mr. Sasaki said "he already know the show wasn't going to have a lot of action in the first season but they did it this way so that the viewers would see what the characters are going through so when the season 2 happens the events will be more impact-full" he also said season 2 would have more action. And Anyone who has gone to AX knows he said this so I think season 2 is good for action.
Thanks for the thoughts and info, everyone. It really will depend on how the characters affect me going forward, I suppose. While I generally like a balance and rhythm between action and character development, I am fine with action used as more of a punctuation and character development being the focus so long as it is executed in a way that feels natural and engaging. I mean, I am a big fan of RahXephon; probably my favorite recent mecha show (from start to finish) was Argevollen; and I’ve also been slowly catching up on Gargantia. RahXephon was all about peoples’ intersecting lives, Argevollen was IBO-like in the sense that it was a small group of grunts in over their heads dealing with interpersonal and political matters, and Gargantia has been very much a slice-of-life show so far. Even so, I have found all of these more engaging than IBO up to this point. Also, I recently rewatched Gundam X, which had a lot of character-led plots, and I found that cast a lot more relatable to this point.
A lot of IBO’s cast come across as just hard-luck, tough kids acting tough and trying to survive, with minimal extra background information, and therefore strike me as somewhat bland. Mikazuki’s mix of underlying caring but apathetic sort of outward attitude isn’t very inspiring. Kudelia and Atra are kind of earnest observers. Even Orga, who first seemed to have some unknown layers to himself, has so far shown himself to be pretty one-note so far. I get that he’s trying to keep the “family” together and live up to Mika’s expectations, but you could stick almost any character in the cast in that role. (Why has Orga, in particular, taken this role on; perhaps future episodes will tell us.) As such, rooting for the underdog has been the most engaging aspect so far for me, and therefore, I think this is trying to work on a more thematic and emotional level.
I think I’m still trying to wrap my head around what IBO wants to accomplish thematically. I get that it doesn’t want to be an action series, and that’s all right. So, I assume it wants to be a series about young people finding their independence and humanity. It presents that often enough that I understand its general message, but the way it flows from scene to scene has felt awkward at times (Episode 8 went from backroom dealings with the mafia to the female characters playing with babies), and the dialogue sometimes has this canned or forced vibe to it (like when one of the female pilots was talking about her burning interest in the Gundam’s pilot). Or maybe I’m just reading into things too much.
It’s not that I dislike the series, but again, I can’t find a lot in it that has me fully engaged yet. It has had moments of greatness/cleverness, and I do like how it’s switched up some things from traditional Gundam stuff. I like the sense of teamwork in it. I’m trying to get a handle on why it hasn’t gotten me yet (and also perhaps what audience they were going for). Maybe it is partially that is seems to sit heavily on subplots that have minimal significance for too long, in my opinion. (i.e. Crank’s guilt-ridden, three-episode death wish; Coral’s self-destructive dealings; Todo’s subversive grumbling and scheme against Tekkadan…).
All of that noted, I like the sense of mystery in the background regarding Kudelia and Nobliss, Gallerjhorn, etc. I'm interested to find out what's up with McGillis and Gaelio as I watch on. I’m engaged enough to stick with it and see where it goes. And in general, I'm trying to just watch this for what it is, with minimal expectations. For once, I'm trying my best to just unplug and just take what this Gundam series gives me. (It has provided some good variety for Toonami, I think.) I’ll wait several more episodes to comment again, I think, to see what I assume are its character/world development episodes. I’m meandering here, and I’m not sure I’ve been able to clarify anything further than in my previous post, so I’m out for now.
My Mecha/Scifi Novels: https://www.goodreads.com/series/168677 ... -war-arm-x "May you rest in peace, the betrayed and outraged Milliardo Peacecraft." Most-Wanted Gundam Anime:Episode Zero, Blue Destiny, Rise from the Ashes, Crossbone
LightningCount wrote:Thanks for the thoughts and info, everyone. It really will depend on how the characters affect me going forward, I suppose. While I generally like a balance and rhythm between action and character development, I am fine with action used as more of a punctuation and character development being the focus so long as it is executed in a way that feels natural and engaging
Actually LightningCount, I might be some of the people who might disagree so please don't hate me
for Mikazuki at first he might seem uncaring ( like Heero or Satsuna ) but he actually dose care about his friends. He still remains pretty thoughtful to the other people, and socially cognizant even if he doesn't express it typically. "Emotionless" seems to be the wrong word because (to me) that implies he doesn't understand the 'feelings' or other people or that he doesn't care, and neither of those seem to be true. He's not selfish or self-centered. ( episode 4 and 1 showed that as well ) and I think out of the tekkadan cast his actually the most complex only because of his mannerisms and his actions for example In episode 6 alone:
.he took genuine interest in what Kudelia had been doing as he passed her in the hall even though he was occupied already
.he noticed Orga was a bit fatigued and asked him if he was tired (Orga returned the consideration)
.he reassured Atra that he's going to be okay (because he's wearing her bracelet)
.he openly affirmed his trust in Orga and Biscuit's decision making
( that the one aspect I like about IBO it doesn't straight about the characters personality they let the actions speak for itself a good example of this is
X_zoro wrote:Actually LightningCount, I might be some of the people who might disagree so please don't hate me for Mikazuki at first he might seem uncaring ( like Heero or Satsuna ) but he actually dose care about his friends.
I would never hate anyone for an opinion, so no worries! I actually noted your point in my post:
LightningCount wrote:Mikazuki’s mix of underlying caring but apathetic sort of outward attitude isn’t very inspiring.
I recognize he cares a lot, actually. And he's more transparent than Heero or Setsuna about that. It's just that he has this outwardly apathetic vibe about him that sort of leaves me hanging a bit. It's not a deal-breaker, though.
My Mecha/Scifi Novels: https://www.goodreads.com/series/168677 ... -war-arm-x "May you rest in peace, the betrayed and outraged Milliardo Peacecraft." Most-Wanted Gundam Anime:Episode Zero, Blue Destiny, Rise from the Ashes, Crossbone
.
plus I do relate to him becasue ( getting a little personal here ) I've lost my younger brother to heart cancer so for me it wasn't forced or unearned, but everything else I agree with. 
so I think season 2 is good for action.