EFSF Zeta-era Garrisons

[EFSF Pilot]

Seeing in Gundam Unicorn's setting of UC 0096 that the Earth Federation uses almost ten year old mobile suits (Nemo, GM, and other AEUG leftovers) for defense on earth. So back in 0087, was garrison of MSV mobile suits at Jaburo a standard EFSF garrison left to an AEUG attack instead of old mobile suits rounded up from storage as decoys? Hell, in space that one Alexandria class warship has Zaku cannons on board!

[JEFFPIATT]

we do see one in the first episode of zeta the normal EFSF forces used an combo of GM II and Hi-Zack units with some zaku recon types. the Jabero force was only old oyo surplus because the titans were going to nuke the place and opted to not keep new stuff there to get destroyed.

[EFSF Pilot]

Yeah thats right about the Green-Noa garrison of GMs in episode one being destroyed by the red comet! Plus add some RMS-117 Galbaldy-βs from Luna two and the picture of the space forces is clear.

The earth situation is different since the EF forces look at it being a backwater since there are only pesky spacenoid Zeon remnants from the OYW at the beginning of Zeta Gundam. The other supply bases on Earth could have the similar garrisons with even the original GM or captured Zeon surplus.

Those poor feddies at Jaburo!

[JEFFPIATT]

well they were getting nuked and not to;d about it and jabaro during the zeta era was reduced to an supply base and an ms development lab. in fact the first hint cara got something was up was that the entire defence force was oyo era ms and no modern units. Generaly fleet wide normal EFF forces used an combo of GM II and Hi=zack Units with some specialized captured zeon and refitted oyo ms kept around while the titans used there lions share of the military budget to build every random prototype and procure modern ms. the unicor era was worse off because most of the earth forces modern ms were zeon based monoeye units that wew politically purged and we had the navel forces reverting to the aqua GM from newer Marine Zakus.

[EFSF Pilot]

Great point about the purge of Titans mobile suits after that era of 0087-0088. The use of those suits was so widespread that the use of old Federation and AEUG mobile suits wouldn't make up the difference in quality or quantity. Unicorn really shows the early symptoms of Federal stagnation that really showed in the next UC century.

[JEFFPIATT]

Between UC 0083 and uc 100 new model ms were primarly issued to special task forces with the EFSF being secondary the only real wide sprerad fleet deployment went to the RGM-79R refit program with some still usefull older GM specialized units getting upgrades like the RGC-80 and RGC-83 GM Cannons and the RMS-106 Hi-Zack series being deployed as cheap replacements along with any unused zeon units where the production equipment was captured intact like luna II's plant putting out Galbaldy units and the action zakus. the only truly earth bound unit in use by the Army forces would be the Guntank II units.

[domino]

Don't forget that we do see a Gustav Karl guarding the base alongside those Zeta Plus units. While I'd fathom the Zeta Plus units are mostly there for fan-service, in-universe it's highly likely they were continually upgraded (like the GM) and there were some Jegan units lying around too (and maybe one or two other Gustavs)

As others have pointed out above, the Federation tends to re-use old type MS for as long as they can...while throwing the newer MS into whatever happens to be their focus at the point in time (usually Zeon suppression)

[JEFFPIATT]

for the most part its fleet prioritization the newer models go the the higher priority posts while the older equipment is cycled to less important posts unless it's an specialized unit where an newer model has not replaced it like the GM Cannon and GM Cannon II. the primary reasion the GM II got so widely distribuded othen than being an refit program with the RGM-79R units but the grypts plant also producted new build RMS-179 units for deployment the advantage being that the GM II was still able to mount the older GM specialist kits likr the striker armor and sniper parts. When the Titans were disbanded the Fed used there stock of RMS-179 units to replace there RMS-106 units that were not captured by axis zeon forces. and post first neo zeon war those remaining units either were sold to the ROZ forces or refit in to hobby hi-zack units at luna II and sold in to the surplus market similar to how old fighter jets get sold off it's ability to use military equipment was stripped out and the armor was retooled.

[Gelgoog Jager]

About the Zaku Cannons seen Zeta Gundam, we see them twice: first a bunch of them on board the green EF-use Alexandria class Hario (during Scirocco's introduction) and much later we see another one among Kilimanjaro's defense forces.

Mark has pointed out that the MS-06K's unique features as well as its original background may hint at it being developed with technology of newer MS such as the Dom (YMS-09 legs) and Gelgoog (MS-14C head). Also, it seems that at one point it was supposed to have a beam cannon, which irbically seems to have been left in the final design but now considered a ballistic weapon (the cannon itself resembles some other Zeon beam weapons). The larger cannon seen in 08th team, some PS3 videogames and the MS-09K-1 is supposed to be the ballistic cannon that generated the balance problems.

Anyway, the point is that perhaps when the MS-06K was included in Zeta, it was still considered to have a beam cannon, which is why the EF has it on its lone non-Titan controlled Alexandria class ship along some newer Hizacks. I do am a bit puzzled by the decision to have it in space, since outside videogames the MS-06K seems to lack visible back thrusters which would allow it to move properly in space. Perhaps it's meant to used an attachment in a similar way the unit seen in U.C. 0096 uses one just for landing after jumping from its Dodai YS, which it then proceeds to eject.

[EFSF Pilot]

Yeah those Zaku-Cannons in space are a strange sight in Zeta. Maybe they were being shipped from storage to earth to another Garrison like Jaburo or even for internal use inside a colony. The EF's strategy of using the Titans as a high tech counter-insurgency force really backfired when they went rogue, leaving weak garrisons of GM-IIs and OYW mobile suits to face Axis/ Neo Zeon.

I would love a mini-series on the wider first neo zeon war as a way to retake the ZZ Gundam's reputation as the "black" sheep.

[JEFFPIATT]

I figured that those were prototype hi-Zack frames fitted as zaku cannons. Like the expiation for the extra zaku marine types the titans used in Hong Kong.

[Gelgoog Jager]

The potential uses of MS-06K units without proper thrusters would be limited to colony use, lunar use or use at an asteroid. Even then, one would expect for these units to have been given some additional thrusters, perhaps something along the small secondary backpack the units from Gundam Crossfire and Gundam 0081 have instead of the hard point for the big guns.

As for the EF's situation after Gryps, it's all over the place:

-During the Gryps War the EF was developing the Barzam, an odd looking 2nd generation mass production type MS with no outstanding characteristics, but which supposedly only costed 1.5 times as much to produce than a GM II. Given that the Marasai is built by Anaheim Electronics, which may carry problems such as high costs or political issues due to AE's support to the AEUG, it's not surprising that the EF was trying to produce a new MS that could replace the aging GM II among their forces, not just the Titans'. However, in the end the Titans claimed all the produced units and after the Gryps Conflict the EF seemed to began purging all mono-eye MS from their ranks.

-I'm not very knowledgeable on Sentinel Gundam, but it did add quite a few EF MS. However, in the end only the GM III was adopted in significant numbers afterwards.

-Going back to the EF's purge of mono-eye MS, seeing the republic of Zeon ended up with units such as Hizacks and Schuzrum Dias, I think they are a likely candidate for whom the EF could have given/sold the remaining units to.

-Despite their screen time in CCA and UC, the Jegan seems to remain a special forces only MS through the first Universal Century, which in turn means that the GM III and other MS still form the bulk of the EF forces. Still, as it has been pointed out already, the EF did took some questionable measures such as ditching the Zaku Mariner in favor of the older Aqua GM. Still a better question would be why did the EF didn't adopt the MSM-07 instead, since the RMS-192M is actually based on the MS-06M-1 (the MSM-01 was originally the MS-06M-2). A better approach might have been the one taken with the Byarlant, which basically had its mono-eye replaced by GM-like visor.

-Has anyone ever wondered if the unseen EF land warships destroyed by the Motorad fleet on Earth in U.C. 0153 could actually be Big Tray and/or Heavy Fork class ships still in service after almost 80 years? If we assume that some Salamis Kai ships might be refitted from original Salamis, then we could also have some EF space warships over 80 years old.

-And of course there's the claims about the EF becoming stagnant or economically troubled over time.

My guess is that by U.C. 0096 the Jegan still hasn't been formally adopted by the main EF forces (only special forces such as the London Bell, Ecoas, General Revil, etc.), and as far as we know the GM III might have not been produced in enough numbers to replace all the GM IIs and the retired mono-eye MS within the EF ranks.

[EFSF Pilot]

Good point about the refitting of byarlant to have a visor like most post-gryps suits. The hizack's body style is such that fitting a GM head and repainting it from the zaku green/federal blue seen during zeta might have hid its origins well. Did the Titans remnants take a lot of the hizacks and mono-eyed suits when they joined neo-zeon?

[Gelgoog Jager]

Good point about the refitting of byarlant to have a visor like most post-gryps suits. The hizack's body style is such that fitting a GM head and repainting it from the zaku green/federal blue seen during zeta might have hid its origins well.

You mean something like this:

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/gun ... 1004222351

Did the Titans remnants take a lot of the hizacks and mono-eyed suits when they joined neo-zeon?

And yes, it does seem that the Titans took their MS with them, judging from the Hizacks, Marasais and even a space use Asshimar seen among both factions during the Zeon Civil War.

[EFSF Pilot]

Yeah that Hizack would look great with a GM head!

Those Titans mobile suits are indeed odd to see in the background of ZZ since the Titans were originally founded to prevent such a war from a Zeon from ever happening again.

Its also surprising how the AEUG used so few Rick Dias units in ZZ. They must have been all destroyed in the Gryps war.

[Gelgoog Jager]

If you look closely, that Hizack already has a visor and a sort of "GM-like" head. This is most noticeable when compared to its Keraunos squad sister units:

http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/RMS-106_Hi ... nos_Squad)

As for the Rick Dias, supposedly it was phased out in favor of the improved Schuzrum Dias. Unfortunately the AEUG never got to use these due to their weakened position after the Gryps War and Anaheim Electronics seems to have sold them to the Republic of Zeon to make a profit instead.

[JEFFPIATT]

Good point about the refitting of byarlant to have a visor like most post-gryps suits. The hizack's body style is such that fitting a GM head and repainting it from the zaku green/federal blue seen during zeta might have hid its origins well.

You mean something like this:

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/gun ... 1004222351

Did the Titans remnants take a lot of the hizacks and mono-eyed suits when they joined neo-zeon?

And yes, it does seem that the Titans took their MS with them, judging from the Hizacks, Marasais and even a space use Asshimar seen among both factions during the Zeon Civil War.

According to Under the Gundam: Double-Fake amd AOZ. the EFSF managed to keep control of some Barzam units as the Pezen Base Garason has some refined units who use more of the Gundam Mk II body structure. and double fake has the EFSF deploy MSA-008 (RGM-87) Bar-GM units witch are RMS-154 Barzam units refitted with parts from the RGM-86R GM III putting it in the same class as the RX-160S Byarlant Custom projest where the EFF took there impounded Titans MS Fleet and tasked the Development groups to "Salvage" the investment the Federation had made in to the titans. The EFF wasn't that welcoming to the Titans officers who decided that they were more loyal to the Federation that the titans leaderships cult of personalty considering that AOZ was framed by the court marshal of an titans officer who opted to stay with the federation and not defect to axis with there equipment. The main goal post first neo zeon war was to remove any EFF equipment heavely associated with the titans task-force so all of the RMS line of ms and the Titans RX units were impounted and sent to the boneyard along with the entire Alexandria Class of Mobile Suit Carrier as most of the fleet was commanded and crewed by titans officers so the few not lost at grypts and under EFSF control were sent to the Reserve fleet

[Gelgoog Jager]

Hadn't Mark already pointed out that the Barzam - Gundam Mk II connection didn't make much sense and seemed to be poorly thought retcon? In such case I don't know where the Refined Barzam could fit into the picture.

As for the EF's fleets, while the Alexandria class does seem to be pulled out from active, let's not forget that the EF does turn a Dogosse Gier class ship, also much associated as the Titans flagship, into their new space forces flagship by U.C. 0096.

[EFSF Pilot]

Good point about the "general Revil" being an old Titans ship. I wonder if just using the clop class and salamis Kai classes were cheaper by 0096, hence why the Alexandria class stayed in mothballs. The real mystery is what happened to the remaining Pegasus class ships and how one ended up as a Zeon base.

[JEFFPIATT]

Good point about the "general Revil" being an old Titans ship. I wonder if just using the clop class and salamis Kai classes were cheaper by 0096, hence why the Alexandria class stayed in mothballs. The real mystery is what happened to the remaining Pegasus class ships and how one ended up as a Zeon base.

the few remaining Pegasus class ships by 0083 Gray Phantom and Troy Horse were nuked by the gpo2 at the fleet review the one seen crashed on earth as an Zeon remnant base. was the Gray Phantom. the rest of the class is unknown they may have been reserved after the more standardized Alexandria class was commissioned as the Pegsisus calss was more of an experimental class with lots of alteration between ships ven the SCVA-76 Nahel Argama once it was aquied by the EFSF when the AEUG merged with it was refitted to use an more standard engine block but was placed an special ops ship due to it not using standard parts. the Dogosse Gier class wasn't as common as the Alexandria class was woth only one being built during the grypts conflict it may have been an half build hulk post conflict and the EFSF decided to finish it an deploy it as it's sister was an less visible ship the Alexandria class being more common. Note that by victory one Alexandria class ship is pulled from the Reserve fleet and refit for the League millatre to use so at least one was not sold for scrap.