The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk II

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excalibur2008
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by excalibur2008 » Wed Jan 13, 2016 7:25 pm

Amion wrote:And so the Endless Waltz. :)
Which is a nice way to get apathetic citizens, if a civilization degrades to an endless cycle of douchebags screwing everyone over.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by monster » Wed Jan 13, 2016 7:40 pm

Kuruni wrote:
excalibur2008 wrote:Or they're educated enough to know that chances are the revolution can end up with the new rulers being just as bad or worse that the previous ones or that the new rulers can turn out to be incompetent boobs, so they don't want to bother.
Sound too pretentious to me. Has Savarin pull "You're naive idealist." to Biscuit seem like something from Gundam SeeD rather than IBO.

Really, you're talk about same thing as me, the uncertain changes which will come after revolution. But you're focus on philosophic side while I'm more on what will happen.

There's differnt between "Thing is going to change and I'm learned enough to be skeptical that it might gone worse, so I will smack my brother for he is one of those who bring in that change." and "Thing is going to change and I might loss my job, so I will smack my brother for he is one of those who bring in that change." The first is indeed sound cooler, but as I said, also pretentious. While the second seem selfish, it's something many of us would understand.

There's also fact that earth sphere of PD world is politically stable for over 300 centuries, so any philosophy no matter how much you're educated will seem pretentious when used to counter someone who's starving for real.

Well, we'll see in the next episode. I just don't think the show will suddenly become more preachy.
A character expressing what he/she believes is or should be the case (aka "preaching" by some), even in regards to the big picture scenarios, is not being pretentious. It's only pretentious if the character is not being sincere about it. On the other hand, there are pretentious people in the world, so characters like that shouldn't negatively affect understanding from the audience.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by Amion » Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:20 pm

excalibur2008 wrote:
Amion wrote:And so the Endless Waltz. :)
Which is a nice way to get apathetic citizens, if a civilization degrades to an endless cycle of douchebags screwing everyone over.
Hasn't it already? :lol:
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by Kuruni » Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:29 am

monster wrote:A character expressing what he/she believes is or should be the case (aka "preaching" by some), even in regards to the big picture scenarios, is not being pretentious. It's only pretentious if the character is not being sincere about it. On the other hand, there are pretentious people in the world, so characters like that shouldn't negatively affect understanding from the audience.
(I should know you will jump in when I compare it to SeeD...)

I said I won't touch the philosophical subject until next episode, so I will focus on character as human here.

Ther's one thing you ignore here, from the preview it appear that Savarin will has a fight with Biscuit.

Believe in it or not, abstract idea like "power always corrupt" isn't something worth to destroy your relation with sibling (at least for me, I know some people can disown their child for being political different) and thus come off as pretentious.

Imagine yourself being an environment activitist, then one day your long absented brother just drop by to say hi to you, tell you he's working in the company you know to has ill reputation (but unproven) regarding environment. Now, would you go far to the point of fighting him on the subject of environment activity? Well you may, but I would rather change the subject once it's clear that further discussion would only harm the conversation (hell, I say don't bring it up at all is better).

That's one reason why I wish the motive of his act in upcoming episode should be mundane and down to earth like risk of job lossing. That's something real enough that I would understand shouting in his brother's face even if it's still unreasonable.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by monster » Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:40 am

Kuruni wrote:Ther's one thing you ignore here, from the preview it appear that Savarin will has a fight with Biscuit.
That's not relevant to the comment I made.
Believe in it or not, abstract idea like "power always corrupt" isn't something worth to destroy your relation with sibling (at least for me, I know some people can disown their child for being political different) and thus come off as pretentious.

Imagine yourself being an environment activitist, then one day your long absented brother just drop by to say hi to you, tell you he's working in the company you know to has ill reputation (but unproven) regarding environment. Now, would you go far to the point of fighting him on the subject of environment activity? Well you may, but I would rather change the subject once it's clear that further discussion would only harm the conversation (hell, I say don't bring it up at all is better).

That's one reason why I wish the motive of his act in upcoming episode should be mundane and down to earth like risk of job lossing. That's something real enough that I would understand shouting in his brother's face even if it's still unreasonable.
There's a difference between working for a company with an ill reputation regarding the environment and working for an organization that's on the government's watch list for suspected acts of violence/rebellion/terrorism. If my own brother was working the latter type, then I would hope that I would care enough about him to confront him about it.

I don't mind if the brother is only worried about how his own life would be affected, but that doesn't make the alternative motive any less real. It's not like we live in a peaceful world where such things couldn't happen.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by Kuruni » Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:39 pm

monster wrote:
Kuruni wrote:Ther's one thing you ignore here, from the preview it appear that Savarin will has a fight with Biscuit.
That's not relevant to the comment I made.
I other words, you're not even recognize the value of sibling relation. Either you don't have one and really can't understand why other think it's big deal, or you have one and it's totally ZOINKS up. That would explain why you see nothing wrong about ruin it with abstract ideal.
monster wrote:There's a difference between working for a company with an ill reputation regarding the environment and working for an organization that's on the government's watch list for suspected acts of violence/rebellion/terrorism. If my own brother was working the latter type, then I would hope that I would care enough about him to confront him about it.
Ah, I must admit that it slipped from my mind. And I'm fine with that, at least it's real enough. But that is actually irrelevant to the earlier comment you made, which is about why abstarct believe should be enough to shout at your long absent brother.
Last edited by Kuruni on Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by SonicSP » Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:43 pm

phillosmaster wrote:I'm still baffled by the negative comments, but everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Still my favorite Gundam since 00, and right now I'm enjoying this more.
The show isn't doing too well I think. The TV ratings as of episode 10 are worse off than even AGE from what I saw, which isn't exactly considered to be a success (also shares the same timeslot, and is generally considered to be a good one). Even taking into account declining ratings in general, it's not exactly a good sign for it.

I'm still liking the show but my enthusiasm for it has dropped significantly since the start, where I think it's one of the best few episodes starts I've personally seen in a Gundam show. I don't agree with the most negative comments about it but I can also see where they're coming from since some of those things that were mentioned is dampening my further enjoyment of the show.

But there's something about the way the episodes are written that keeps me interested in the show even when the plot arcs I want to be explored aren't being done so or done at a glacial pace (for example, I miss the strong Orga-Mika dynamic that they had going on earlier in the show). Not to the point where I salivate every week for the new episode but enough to keep me interested and invested in it.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by nacho-wan » Fri Jan 15, 2016 12:28 am

I don't know, but I'm growing less interested by the episode. Way too little MS combat. I think the spark of revolution might light a flare for this series to find its way to a cohesive ending, but not that we have a masked dude and a creepy lady we might get a shoehorned finale not unlike Age's.

And when I thought that somebody from Biscuit's family avoided the pastry theme, this comes up: http://www.roadtopastry.com/blog/savarins
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by monster » Fri Jan 15, 2016 1:10 am

SonicSP wrote:The show isn't doing too well I think. The TV ratings as of episode 10 are worse off than even AGE from what I saw, which isn't exactly considered to be a success (also shares the same timeslot, and is generally considered to be a good one). Even taking into account declining ratings in general, it's not exactly a good sign for it.
Is that general decline attributable to the availability of a streaming option within Japan? If that's the case, it's hard for me to gauge the importance of TV ratings, unless this particular show does not have a streaming option in Japan.

As for phillosmaster's comment about the negatives, I've seen some positive reactions as well, so there's that at least, as anecdotal as it is.
Kuruni wrote:I other words, you're not even recognize the value of sibling relation. Either you don't have one and really can't understand why other think it's big deal, or you have one and it's totally ZOINKS up. That would explain why you see nothing wrong about ruin it with abstract ideal.
My original comment wasn't about sibling relationship. So I'm simply saying that whether or not Savarin and Biscuit will have a fight is not relevant to my original comment.

Now, as for the topic of sibling relationship...
the earlier comment you made, which is about why abstarct believe should be enough to shout at your long absent brother.
That's an oversimplification of what I said, which was only in response to your analogy. I said that if I cared about my brother, then I would confront him if he is involved in a dangerous and criminal activity. Caring about my brother actually meant that I value our sibling relationship. And his safety (not to mention that of others) is not simply some abstract ideal. It's something pertinent to the continuation of the relationship.

Note that since we do not yet know the detail for this apparent fight between Savarin and Biscuit, I was not making a comment specifically about it. In fact, that might not be the reason why they're fighting.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by SonicSP » Fri Jan 15, 2016 1:38 am

monster wrote:that general decline attributable to the availability of a streaming option within Japan? If that's the case, it's hard for me to gauge the importance of TV ratings, unless this particular show does not have a streaming option in Japan.
When Netflix entered Japan a few months ago, the things I kept reading from analysts who were covering the move mentioned that broadcast TV remains a pretty strong thing there than most other advanced countries, and they mentioned that Netflix may have a tough nut to break over there because of this.

Even for the US, a country that has a pretty big cordcutting reputation in tech circles (with services like Hulu, Netflix, Amazon Prime, HBO Go with new ones from CBS and CW coming soon), normal TV viewers still vastly outnumber streaming circles despite representation we see of cordcutting in tech news. It's not that cordcutting isn't a thing as it is growing especially among younger people (and broadcast numbers in the US to my knowledge has started to plateau), it's just not at the critical point yet where normal ratings don't matter.

I think the Episode 1 ranked around 12 or 13th among anime shows if I recall correctly. I don't know the relative anime ratings numbers for Episode 10 but I do know that the number is close to Episode 1. Orphans was on a good upward trend as of Episode 3 but when someone posted Episode 10's numbers it seems to have dropped off to below that (didn't see any numbers in between those on the forums I go).

Unlike G-Reco which was placed as a Late Night Anime show that aired at 2:45AM on Fridays, Orphans's timeslot placement of Sunday afternoon points to them trying to achieve as much as mainstream success as possible (00S2 and AGE were on the exact same one I believe) at least as much as a Gundam show could anyhow.

From an analysis perspective at least, I think a better number would be in the home media sales which I presume shares a lot of the bulk of an anime series's revenue (especially in Japan, where anime is ridiculously expensive in my opinion). I don't think they are out yet but I mentioned the rating numbers because I do think it's a worrying sign about the show's commercial success. And I would assume there's some sort of correlation between that and eventual merchandising sales which Bandai would really care about. Commercial success isn't going to affect how we individually like/dislike the show but it would play a big role in things like sequels or not being cut short.

Personally not sure whether Orphans is available on any web or digital TV services in Japan, though I'm just gonna assume it is. I presume it's not free on YouTube like it is over here where I live though.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by JDogindy » Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:28 pm

BrentD15 wrote:
Zeonista wrote:JDogindy: You have not gone out of your way to stomp on toes here, and we appreciate it. I would say that it is OK to post if you don't get it and want to know what all the fuss is about. It helps those of us who are fans articulate why we get into it and what makes watching it worthwhile. Hopefully something in a past or future episode will reach you and you will be able to appreciate the series. :)
I think that's what kinda gets lost in these online discussions.
We get so wrapped up in our own thoughts and feelings that we don't see things from a different point of view.
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Also, finally glad to be able to post after waiting so long to access my account again. :evil:
Unfortunately, "the other view", tends to be a guy telling us we are idiots for either complaining or worshipping the product, so it doesn't lend itself to quality debate, but rather the other users shooing out the dissenting opinion.

I still stand by what I said, but I also need to confess two more reasons why I'm not an IBO fan. The first is the fact that I am not a Mari Okada fan. I find her works ranging from just passable (Aquarion EVOL) to downright dubious (M3: The Dark Metal), and when I found out about IBO, I was pretty cautious until I found out that Okada was the lead writer, and that has been a deterrent to me. While she hasn't done anything truly insane yet, I got this nagging feeling that she may do something that will leave some of you scratching your heads.

The other is... and this is so petty, but I also feel frustrated with the fact that people have been heaping massive amounts of praise on this series, and I believe part of it is due to the massive hatedom (to me, at least) that Reconguista in G has gotten, where it feels like some people like this series purely because it wasn't the last one. I mean, I tell people I love G-Reco and can't get into IBO, and the response I almost always get it "Well, I gave up on G-Reco after the first episode, but I have been loving IBO". It makes me feel like you're NOT allowed to like Reconguista at all if you are a Gundam fan, and if you do, you're looked at as if you rode the short bus.

And, for the record, I have heard from people as to how insufferable the G-Reco fans supposedly were during the series' run, but I started watching AFTER that series ended because horrifically bad mecha anime like "Buddy Complex" and "Cross Ange" killed my interest in anime, and to be honest, Gundam is really the only anime I'm willing to go back to.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by zetatype » Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:25 pm

SonicSP wrote:
phillosmaster wrote:I'm still baffled by the negative comments, but everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Still my favorite Gundam since 00, and right now I'm enjoying this more.
The show isn't doing too well I think. The TV ratings as of episode 10 are worse off than even AGE from what I saw, which isn't exactly considered to be a success (also shares the same timeslot, and is generally considered to be a good one). Even taking into account declining ratings in general, it's not exactly a good sign for it.
I wonder if IBO's TV ratings is partially the result of people just getting burned out on the Gundam franchise (gundam fatigue). Less than a year passed between GBFT and G-Reco's last episodes and IBO's first episode and then before that you had GBF. At least AGE had the benefit of only having 00 precede it and having a decent amount of time in between the two.

Though it doesn't really surprise me that episode 10 was the low point for IBO. It did mark the end of what was one of the longest droughts of MS combat in the gundam franchise (almost 3 episodes), so I'm interested to see if the ratings went back up after that.
nacho-wan wrote:I don't know, but I'm growing less interested by the episode. Way too little MS combat. I think the spark of revolution might light a flare for this series to find its way to a cohesive ending, but not that we have a masked dude and a creepy lady we might get a shoehorned finale not unlike Age's.
I'm pretty sure the masked guy is Mcgillis and i doubt one new character will significantly slow down the pacing of IBO. Though it would be intersting to see the Char clone trope split into two characters.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by monster » Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:29 pm

zetatype wrote:I wonder if IBO's TV ratings is partially the result of people just getting burned out on the Gundam franchise (gundam fatigue). Less than a year passed between GBFT and G-Reco's last episodes and IBO's first episode and then before that you had GBF. At least AGE had the benefit of only having 00 precede it and having a decent amount of time in between the two.
Considering the apparent relatively low ratings of the recent series, I don't think "fatigue" would apply to the majority of the potential fanbase. Instead, as far the ratings alone are concerned, the bigger problem (if there is any) is in not bringing enough of either new and/or old watching audience that haven't watched the franchise in a while to increase the ratings.

In the case of Orphans, maybe it has to with the slight decrease in combat scenes, or maybe not.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by Amion » Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:09 am

I think the story stagnated too long without revealing different plot twists. Just them getting Kudelia to Earth turned off a lot of people I know. When the story did nothing other than show us just how bad off Human Debris are, it probably was just the straw that broke the camel's back. IBO isn't bad, but it's not good enough for the fanbase, either. There isn't enough punch to it. The gore and child deaths aren't going to draw in any crowd other than the psychopaths, while the rest of us cling to the more subtle or endearing plot elements for enjoyment. Some aren't so patient to see where this pays off.

I now fully believe we are not getting a second season. This show is basically a 26 storyline. Kudelia will meet someone on Earth who sympathizes with her and can turn things around or get them turning in that direction. There will be some kind of falling out between Orga and Mika so we get their backstory, and then Chocoloate Man will devious himself to power, kill whoever was about to enact change or oust them. He'll throw off his party mask and enter Counterattack mode, argue with Kudelia a bit about why some group or other simply has to die wholesale, or something else she can't agree with. Tekkadan helps her stage a coup or otherwise defeat McGillis, rescue his lolli from being stuck with a mass murderer, and then ending credits.

That, or Okada does something off track and murders the whole cast just as we begin to like them, leaving only a couple to pick up the pieces. I don't know. At this point its fallen into G-Reco's problem of poor time management. Those Saisei episodes hurt far more than they helped, and the Brewers almost as bad. No matter what they attempt to do we simply don't have time for a complex enough finale. Only way I can see it working is Okada pulling a Code Geass and refuse to grant closure. That would at least be something to surprise people. A rushed or bland ending ain't gonna make the news, hun.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by zetatype » Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:21 pm

Amion wrote: I now fully believe we are not getting a second season. This show is basically a 26 storyline. Kudelia will meet someone on Earth who sympathizes with her and can turn things around or get them turning in that direction. There will be some kind of falling out between Orga and Mika so we get their backstory, and then Chocoloate Man will devious himself to power, kill whoever was about to enact change or oust them. He'll throw off his party mask and enter Counterattack mode, argue with Kudelia a bit about why some group or other simply has to die wholesale, or something else she can't agree with. Tekkadan helps her stage a coup or otherwise defeat McGillis, rescue his lolli from being stuck with a mass murderer, and then ending credits.
That's more or less in line with what I had predicted the plot of IBO would turn out to be if IBO got only 26 episodes and I'm actually fine with that. While the remaining 12 episodes is not enough to have a complex plot I still believe IBO can end on a good or at least decent note with the time it currently has. The key lies more in how the characters will continue to develop (specifically Mika, Kudelia, and Orga) rather than the plot. Now granted the plot still needs to get moving and the show certainly can't afford to slow down like it did during the Teiwaz and Brewers arcs (despite liking those arcs), though episode 14 gave me some hope that the pacing will be better for the second half.

At the moment I'm not too concerned about the ending being rushed assuming the plot doesn't get too complex for its own good and I'd prefer we not get a Code Geass or Aldnoah Zero S1 ending unless we're getting another season (haven't completely lost hope).

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by phillosmaster » Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:00 pm

It does feel like the story is on pace for a 50 episode show. If we don't get that length the resolution will be disappointing probably. I will admit that much.

That said I reaffirm that I'm having fun with this show. I'm super bummed to hear it's unpopular because I'd love for this setting to be explored more. Lately I've been holding off on reading the internet about a show until I have a firm opinion on it (for this show I waiting 10 episodes). I've found doing this makes me actually like things more on average. My hypothesis is that the fandom has a tendency to drag itself down.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Sun Jan 17, 2016 12:45 pm

Man, Atra's got balls of steel.

And Fumitan has all the death flags!
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by Amion » Sun Jan 17, 2016 2:06 pm

Now this was probably the episode some people were hoping for, or at least it was for me. So we can assume things are going to get nastier in the next few episodes, including nastier with the mecha returning to rampage in a colony. We all know how that usually goes.

I found poor Saveren to indeed be a more honorable and understandable figure than I first thought. Kuruni certainly called it, I think.

Now Fumitan is probably dead. The death flags are just too numerous by this point. Hopefully she doesn't, as she's been developing pretty well over the past few episodes. Only question is if her now inevitable death will be the springboard for Kudelia she's been needing. Maybe a final pep talk from Fumitan about her destiny to become Lacus Cly-err, the peacemaker of Mars, will set Kudelia's spine firmly in place to deliver that world-changing speach!

Only question is whether its going to be earth-shattering, or edifying... things don't look so good on the edification front.

Ooh... it's just so awesomely hilarious how McGillis is parioding his trope. "You never could grow up. You're enjoying this". He knows the mask is ridiculous, and he's loving every second of it. :lol:
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by monster » Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:36 pm

I'm really glad that Savarin was still, in his own way, thinking about the people of Dort 2 as well, and not just himself, so I'm ok with him not fully reconciling with Biscuit. This fits with the not-so-happy themes of Orphans without having to result in Savarin's death. Well, assuming that's the end of Savarin's role. I hope he doesn't need to die.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by lingabao » Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:36 pm

Savarin has a valid point re: his desire to help those on Dort 2. But he is unfortunately just as naive as the union workers.

If Gjallarhorn want a provocation, simply handing over Kudelia will not do the trick. Their desire to set an example has been in the works, and if it didn't happen here, it would surely happen on another colony.

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