Ep. 049: The Legend of Zelda

[Chris]

Chaos Theater Ep. 049 - "The Legend of Zelda"
- Download Now: 64 kbps - 171 mins, 4 sec. (2:51:04) 78.32 MB

Segment Breakdown for this Episode:

01. Intro: "What We've Been Up To"
Runtime: 0:00:01 - 0:25:19

02. Discussion: "The Legend of Zelda"
Runtime: 0:25:52 - 2:07:37

03. Outro: "Audible recommendations", "Chaos Theater Mailbag" and "Internet whoring"
Runtime: 2:08:12 - 2:50:44

It's time to harass chickens and break pots in people's houses in this latest episode of Chaos Theater. After catching up on what we've been doing, it's straight into our main topic, Nintendo's Zelda series! We discuss all the main games from the NES original up through Skyward Sword, as well as our thoughts on the upcoming 3DS game and the Symphony of the Goddesses concerts. We then close things out with our Audible recommendations and answers to your Mailbag questions. Next time, it's another science fiction double feature as we discuss both Iron Man 3 and Star Trek Into Darkness, featuring special guests.

Music Featured in this Episode:
"Boing Zoom DAKOTA!" from Rock Candy 1 by Shadow
"Title" from The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past by Koji Kondo
"Dark World" from The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past by Koji Kondo
"Final Ghirahim" from The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword by Koji Kondo

Sponsors & Special Offers:
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[tHeWasTeDYouTh]

CELLDA, give me adult link adult link

I have never played a Zelda game

[Varnis]

I'll admit that the only two Zelda games I've played are Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask on the N64, I have Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, and Skyward Sword all ready to play, But something just keeps me from playing them...maybe it's because I want to play the Metroid Prime Trilogy before doing so...I don't know, my backlog ain't any smaller I know that much.

[The Fowl Sorcerous]

Chris is not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy.

[hotlimit]

I was kind of confused when you guys were talking about how Twilight Princess was planned as a GC release and then they moved it to the Wii. I'm pretty sure they released it for GC and Wii simultaneously, because I distinctly remember it being one of the very last GC games.

[Chris]

We never said it wasn't released on the GameCube, but obviously they made the Wii the main platform since they delayed the game to launch with the Wii.

[sakurangel]

The gamecube version was already mad, but nintendo vote to haved as launch on wii. So the gamecube ver. Get delay. Saying that the gamecube was the lowrent verdion, but this one iz the true way to play the game, heck you can eve use the gamecube control to play the wii version... by the way... zelda 2 yes is hard was hard as fuck but at least is not a Phillips what? Abortion

[hotlimit]

Ahhh, OK, that makes sense. I was just reminded of when my friend got a Wii and was like, "yeah I got the new Zelda for Wii!", and I was totally confused because neither of us knew it was a cross-platform game.

[Mu La Flaga]

Ok I'm in a similar situation to Varnis.
I've played Ocarina of Time and Majoras Mask, I finished Ocarina but not Majora, but I also would like to see it ported or remade for 3DS.
I do the Legend of Zelda 4Swords 3DS version before it got pulled from EShop, I actually started trying it and it's interesting.
The EShop has the original Legend of Zelda, Zelda 2 and just recently they added Oracle of Ages and Oracle of Seasons, not sure if I will get them from the sounds of how frustrating they are.

As for the mailbag entry, glad your both in to Ducktales as expected.
I do get how you feel on beat em ups, but D&D was in it's own ways, I mean Final Fight is just the usual street brawler how is that any more standout.
D&D had those magic spells and also the character classes, leveling up, inventories, ect.
So I kind of look forward to that more.

[Destiny_Gundam]

Man, you guys are missing out on life by not having beaten Majora's Mask. I definitely consider it to be the best Zelda game by far. It was amazingly atmospheric and while the amount of dungeons is limited to just 4, the sheer amount of side quests more than make up for it. It really imerses you in the world and as you get to know the townsfolk you genuinely want to save them.

The game isn't that hard, though. It has its moments (like the alien attack, but that's more because I couldn't keep the controller steady because I was freaking out), mostly The Great Bay Temple and its boss. The final boss is actually laughably easy, especially with the Fierce Diety's mask. Getting that isn't that hard either. The Bomber's Notebook makes it easy to keep track of the side quests you've done.

BTW the show Pedro was thinking of was Myself;Yourself, which was based on an all ages game actually. I wouldn't call it much of a harem show since he had one, maybe 2 girls interested in him.

[LightningCount]

Big Zelda fan. I've played through every game except those two Four Swords games (and the CD-i stuff), and I thought you did a really great job of covering the series.

Thoughts:

*I have to say that Zelda II is one of my favorites, actually. I understand why it divides people, but it did a fair amount to expand the mindset of the series. Also, Link, coming off Zelda 1, is of a similar age to Adult Link of OoT. The ideas of magic, towns (+ town names of sages), sword techniques & teachers all came from this entry. (I might argue that Wind Waker's Hyrule Castle is based on the North Castle from this game, as well). Given Link's size and mobility, I would argue also that this gave another sense of dimensionality to present Link in prior to OoT. The sense of dynamic sword combat, while difficult, is something that only recent Zelda have realized they're missing. I really like the use of manual jumping in this title and several of the Gameboy entries. Why must everything be auto-jumping in 3D when it could provide for all-new puzzles, etc?

*With regard to day and night cycles, Castlevania II: Simon's Quest on NES came to mind.

*Majora's Mask is honestly just as good as OoT in its own way once you get into it. Once you have the right songs for the Ocarina and watch your in-game journal, planning out your saves is pretty easy and adds a nice strategy to things. Its in-depth world and character stories are something that OoT had only in pieces. And the settings, like snow and swamp, etc are a little more unique than OoT. Personally, I think that OoT and MM are two halves of the ultimate 3D Zelda.

*Cucco in Link's Awakening couldn't take you to bus stops, only used to fly over specific gaps for a limited time during the game.

*Oracle of Ages really took time travel to the next level. Whereas OoT limits this action to the Temple of Time, eventually you're jumping back and forth to solve puzzles at will in OoA.

*OoA’s lizard “Tokay” race are very annoying, and sadly don’t get a mention in Hyrule Historia, IIRC.

*Tingle was introduced in Majora's Mask, not Wind Waker. It seemed like you suggested he was a Wind Waker addition.

*Wind Waker has never grabbed me as a whole. Something about the pacing just seemed off to me. It might all stem from those missing dungeons (which Aonuma recently said can’t be added back in because they were already used in future Zelda games, and he’s not saying which ones).

*Spirit Tracks is a really fun recent Zelda title, but the tracks limit the exploration of the world, holding it back some.

*I liked Fi and loved Ezlo, but I could not stand Midna in Twilight Princess. She bossed Link around and made him seem incompetent. The ending does not make up for how she distorted the experience.

*Forgot to mention the Wolf in Twilight Princess, which really took me out of the experience. It takes so long to become “Link,” and then we have to divide our time as a Wolf ala Okami.

*Twilight Princess really stuck too close to OoT in its broad strokes, and tried too hard to mix in too many disparate and rarely useful ideas.

*Skyward Sword was not the revolutionary title I expected. Some of its "new" ideas were just taken from The Minish Cap. And it wasn't definitively better than Twilight Princess, but it wasn't worse, either, leaving OoT and MM far and away as the best 3D Zeldas to date, IMO.

*And now, I have to talk about how Capcom saved Zelda for me with Oracles of Seasons, Oracle of Ages, and The Minish Cap.

What makes these three games so special is that they don't just rely on their central "hook" mechanic. They have all sorts of layers in their overworlds and mechanics, particularly with the items earned. There are a lot of brand-new and very useful/cool items exploited in multiple ways. Here are a handful across the 3 games by Capcom that deserve mention:

-Magnetic Gloves can be used to propel you toward or away from south and north metal poles, or can be used to pull off an enemy's armor or manipulate a metal ball from afar.

-Mole Mits can dig not just in the earth, but through specific types of walls and dirt formations. (Skyward Sword took this idea, but it was fresh and more integrated in Minish Cap).

-The Gust Jar can suck in objects or enemies and then blow them back out; or, by suction, it can stretch something like a mushroom and use it to catapult Link across gaps; or, it can be used to propel you when you're on raft-like surfaces on water, sort of serving as a would-be motor to a would-be motor boat. (Again, another Minish Cap idea pared down for SS).

-Cane of Pacci flips over whatever its beams hit, allowing you to turn hazards like spikes into platforms, or flip over a tough-shelled enemy. Also, it can plug up certain holes with magic and flip you out of them at great heights.

-Seed Shooter shoots different types of magic seeds with different effects, and can be fired at such angles that it richocets off walls multiple times to get tough-to-reach switches, etc. (Kind of like shooting pool).

-Switch Hook is like the Hook Shot, except it causes you to miraculously trade places with whatever it hits, creating all kinds of mind-blending puzzles.

-Mermaid Suit allows Link to go through strong ocean currents and dive deeper into underwater realms.

-Roc's Cape allows Link to both double-jump and glide

Also, Oracle of Seasons and Oracle of Ages can be linked up by code, allowing one continuous adventure with a bonus dungeon and bosses depending on the order played. And those two games have animal helpers instead of Epona. You have a swimming dodongo, a flying bear, or a boxing kangaroo! Weird, but unique and memorable.

Anyway, my point is, I think that 85-90% of the forward-thinking and meaningful innovation in the Zelda franchise has come through Capcom after the year 2000. They were also behind the original Zelda Four Swords concept, which allows Link to split in four to solve various puzzles, which reappears as another layer of depth when reworked into The Minish Cap's structure.

Well, those are my thoughts I had while listening to the podcast. Keep up the good work.