The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk IV

[EscapeArtist]

Question about this episode, I don't think the answer was in the OVA:

Spoiler

Why didn't Banagher take Banshee back to the Garancieres? It seems like just leaving one of the most powerful weapons in your enemy's possession is a really dumb idea.

[J-Lead]

Question about this episode, I don't think the answer was in the OVA:

Spoiler

Why didn't Banagher take Banshee back to the Garancieres? It seems like just leaving one of the most powerful weapons in your enemy's possession is a really dumb idea.

Spoiler

What's he gonna do, carry it across the ionosphere? He was consuming thrust like a mofo as it was, and Zinnerman's not a mobile suit pilot, so it's not like he could have commandeered it.

He got who they came for; Marida. Trying to take the Banshee with them at that point would not have been a prudent effort.

[azrael]

Spoiler

What's he gonna do, carry it across the ionosphere? He was consuming thrust like a mofo as it was, and Zinnerman's not a mobile suit pilot, so it's not like he could have commandeered it.

He got who they came for; Marida. Trying to take the Banshee with them at that point would not have been a prudent effort.

Spoiler

Considering they disarmed Unicorn and probably left whatever fuel Banagher didn't use up, I'm surprised Banagher didn't run out of fuel sooner.

[Kratos]

Just saw it. Loved it. I mean, it'll need repeat viewings (and I'll need an actual computer, cell phones suck for forum posts) before I post my full thoughts, but my first impression is that it was great. I really like where the series is headed, and what it's doing with it's characters - yes, even No-Kill Banagher. Great, great stuff.

[EscapeArtist]

Question about this episode, I don't think the answer was in the OVA:

Spoiler

Why didn't Banagher take Banshee back to the Garancieres? It seems like just leaving one of the most powerful weapons in your enemy's possession is a really dumb idea.

Spoiler

What's he gonna do, carry it across the ionosphere? He was consuming thrust like a mofo as it was, and Zinnerman's not a mobile suit pilot, so it's not like he could have commandeered it.

He got who they came for; Marida. Trying to take the Banshee with them at that point would not have been a prudent effort.

Spoiler

Ah, makes sense, although I still think it would have been prudent to either push Banshee out into the sky and let it fall or for Zinnerman to toss a grenade into the cockpit to mess it up. But I can see why they would have been in too much of a hurry to do that, because the Garancieres was in a bit of a time crunch and it took a miracle to get them into space as it was.

[flamingtroll]

Spoiler

Considering they disarmed Unicorn and probably left whatever fuel Banagher didn't use up, I'm surprised Banagher didn't run out of fuel sooner.

Spoiler

Or more importantly, if they bothered to disarm the Unicorn, why not unfuel it too. It's gonna be on a Base Jabber throughout the planned short trip anyway. Or better yet, instead of letting Banagher be put inside the unicorn, just strap it on a Base Jabber and send it up separately. Considering the power of the Unicorn, that is probably the most important thing they should have done. In this regard, the novel version was actually more sensible, having Zeon attack Torrington and Bright letting Banagher get away during the chaos. When one actaully thinks about it a little bit, most of what's happening in this episode didn't make a lot of sense. It's like one of those LOLTOMINO moments, except it's actually a central part of the story.

[azrael]

Spoiler

Or more importantly, if they bothered to disarm the Unicorn, why not unfuel it too. It's gonna be on a Base Jabber throughout the planned short trip anyway. Or better yet, instead of letting Banagher be put inside the unicorn, just strap it on a Base Jabber and send it up separately. Considering the power of the Unicorn, that is probably the most important thing they should have done. In this regard, the novel version was actually more sensible, having Zeon attack Torrington and Bright letting Banagher get away during the chaos. When one actaully thinks about it a little bit, most of what's happening in this episode didn't make a lot of sense. It's like one of those LOLTOMINO moments, except it's actually a central part of the story.

Blame the producers for that...

[Kratos]

Spoiler

Or more importantly, if they bothered to disarm the Unicorn, why not unfuel it too. It's gonna be on a Base Jabber throughout the planned short trip anyway. Or better yet, instead of letting Banagher be put inside the unicorn, just strap it on a Base Jabber and send it up separately. Considering the power of the Unicorn, that is probably the most important thing they should have done. In this regard, the novel version was actually more sensible, having Zeon attack Torrington and Bright letting Banagher get away during the chaos. When one actaully thinks about it a little bit, most of what's happening in this episode didn't make a lot of sense. It's like one of those LOLTOMINO moments, except it's actually a central part of the story.

Spoiler

Can an MS just be "de-fueled" like that? Has that ever been done in a previous series? You make it sound like it would be just as simple as removing its weapons, but it's entirely possible that it couldn't be done. And, hell, even if it had been de-fueled, wouldn't that have only prevented it from flying about? An MS' moments are powered primarily by a reactor, so it could conceivably still move around. It doesn't use its thrusters during the fight against the Banshee, so de-fueling wouldn't have affected much before Audrey's leap of faith.

As for sticking Banagher in the cockpit, well, who knows. But that's acknowledged by the episode; Riddhe overhears two guys wondering why he's being put inside for the transfer, so at least we know it wasn't completely overlooked by the writers.

[EscapeArtist]

Spoiler

Or more importantly, if they bothered to disarm the Unicorn, why not unfuel it too. It's gonna be on a Base Jabber throughout the planned short trip anyway. Or better yet, instead of letting Banagher be put inside the unicorn, just strap it on a Base Jabber and send it up separately. Considering the power of the Unicorn, that is probably the most important thing they should have done. In this regard, the novel version was actually more sensible, having Zeon attack Torrington and Bright letting Banagher get away during the chaos. When one actaully thinks about it a little bit, most of what's happening in this episode didn't make a lot of sense. It's like one of those LOLTOMINO moments, except it's actually a central part of the story.

Spoiler

Can an MS just be "de-fueled" like that? Has that ever been done in a previous series? You make it sound like it would be just as simple as removing its weapons, but it's entirely possible that it couldn't be done. And, hell, even if it had been de-fueled, wouldn't that have only prevented it from flying about? An MS' moments are powered primarily by a reactor, so it could conceivably still move around. It doesn't use its thrusters during the fight against the Banshee, so de-fueling wouldn't have affected much before Audrey's leap of faith.

As for sticking Banagher in the cockpit, well, who knows. But that's acknowledged by the episode; Riddhe overhears two guys wondering why he's being put inside for the transfer, so at least we know it wasn't completely overlooked by the writers.

Spoiler

I'd give Bright credit for this. He was officially in charge of the first segment of the transfer. Not sure how they slipped that past the Vists without looking ultra suspicious, though.

[J-Lead]

Spoiler

Or more importantly, if they bothered to disarm the Unicorn, why not unfuel it too. It's gonna be on a Base Jabber throughout the planned short trip anyway. Or better yet, instead of letting Banagher be put inside the unicorn, just strap it on a Base Jabber and send it up separately. Considering the power of the Unicorn, that is probably the most important thing they should have done. In this regard, the novel version was actually more sensible, having Zeon attack Torrington and Bright letting Banagher get away during the chaos. When one actaully thinks about it a little bit, most of what's happening in this episode didn't make a lot of sense. It's like one of those LOLTOMINO moments, except it's actually a central part of the story.

Spoiler

Can an MS just be "de-fueled" like that? Has that ever been done in a previous series? You make it sound like it would be just as simple as removing its weapons, but it's entirely possible that it couldn't be done. And, hell, even if it had been de-fueled, wouldn't that have only prevented it from flying about? An MS' moments are powered primarily by a reactor, so it could conceivably still move around. It doesn't use its thrusters during the fight against the Banshee, so de-fueling wouldn't have affected much before Audrey's leap of faith.

As for sticking Banagher in the cockpit, well, who knows. But that's acknowledged by the episode; Riddhe overhears two guys wondering why he's being put inside for the transfer, so at least we know it wasn't completely overlooked by the writers.

Spoiler

Don't forget that everything was done according to Bright's orders, and Bright had an ulterior motive to his plans. The Unicorn being re-fueled and Banagher in it's cockpit wasn't a command oversight, it was intentionally done that way because Bright was counting on Banagher to help the Garencieres rescue Mineva and rendevous with the Nahel Argama, which he knew was being targeted by the General Revil. The rest of the pilots (including Riddhe) were under the assumption that Banagher was hesitantly cooperating with them for the sake of Mineva's safety (don't forget the end goal was for them to convince him to reveal the last coordinate, and Mineva was meant to be the leverage to get him to reveal it) hence the Unicorn's weapons being taken away to make him less of a potential threat, when in actuality, Banagher was cooperating in a joint effort with the Garencieres team.

tl;dr Bright was basically behaving like he knew he was in a Gundam series, so he knew who to throw his chips in with.

[zetatype]

Spoiler

Or more importantly, if they bothered to disarm the Unicorn, why not unfuel it too. It's gonna be on a Base Jabber throughout the planned short trip anyway. Or better yet, instead of letting Banagher be put inside the unicorn, just strap it on a Base Jabber and send it up separately. Considering the power of the Unicorn, that is probably the most important thing they should have done. In this regard, the novel version was actually more sensible, having Zeon attack Torrington and Bright letting Banagher get away during the chaos. When one actaully thinks about it a little bit, most of what's happening in this episode didn't make a lot of sense. It's like one of those LOLTOMINO moments, except it's actually a central part of the story.

Spoiler

Can an MS just be "de-fueled" like that? Has that ever been done in a previous series? You make it sound like it would be just as simple as removing its weapons, but it's entirely possible that it couldn't be done. And, hell, even if it had been de-fueled, wouldn't that have only prevented it from flying about? An MS' moments are powered primarily by a reactor, so it could conceivably still move around. It doesn't use its thrusters during the fight against the Banshee, so de-fueling wouldn't have affected much before Audrey's leap of faith.

As for sticking Banagher in the cockpit, well, who knows. But that's acknowledged by the episode; Riddhe overhears two guys wondering why he's being put inside for the transfer, so at least we know it wasn't completely overlooked by the writers.

Spoiler

Well I have a suggestion though its probably not airtight. Its possible that the Vist foundation anticipated that the Sleeves would try and attack them. If a battle broke out and the Base Jabber the Unicorn is on gets destroyed then there's no one to pilot it and you can't guarantee that some will be able to catch it. Being all the way up in the atmosphere the Unicorn would either suffer heavy damage or be destroyed if it fell from that distance and the coordinates to Laplace's box would be lost. As we all know, the Vist foundation needs the box to maintain its leverage on the federation, so the ensuring Unicorn gundam's survival would probably take priority over ensuring it doesn't get captured or escape.

Also whether or not the Unicorn gundam's main engines uses fuel or is powered by a reactor is kinda irrelevant. It is my understanding that mobile suits do not have enough engine power to escape the earth's gravity. Therefore, even if the Unicorn tried to escape Marida could just track him down. If the Unicorn did escape he most likely would not get far before running out of fuel and the Vist foundation would eventually find it since it's still on earth . There's also the fact that since Mineva is being held hostage I guess the Vist foundation guys thought he wouldn't try to escape.

EDIT: *Reads J-Lead's post*
Oh yeah that's right....huh kinda makes my whole point irrelevant

Spoiler

Anyway, this was an interesting episode. Action wise the episode was a disappointment, but story wise it was good. Obviously, Brights' talk with Banagher was one of the episodes highlights and I enjoyed the scenes with the Unicorn catching Mineva and pulling up the Garancere. As for Banagher's no killing attitude, I didn't mind it at all since it made sense given that this was a rescue mission though at the same time I'm a little concerned about how its going to play out in the future. The circumstances of episode 5 allowed Banagher to side step the whole issue of whether or not he needs to kill, but It doesn't look like he will be granted that luxury in the remaining episodes. Alos if the Full Armored Unicorn model is any indication I doubt Banagher will be able to keep his hands clean of anymore bloodshed in the future. It all depends on whether or not the writers can pull this off without making Banagher hypocritical.

[flamingtroll]

Spoiler

The more you guys talk about it, the more holes there are it seems I am not trying to trash this episode. It's just a bit below my expectation, because this is also the point in the novel where the story just starts to go down hill for me personally, so this doesn't bole well for the rest of the series.

The theory that it was Bright that put him in the cockpit doesnt work so well considering it was those Vists agents in suits that escorted Banagher into the cockpit. So the orders from General HQ was likely to put Banagher into the cockpit.

If the Vist foundation were worried about the transportation of unicorn being sabotaged, they should have had Ra Calium move up closer to the Garuda and minimize the transport distance. There is little reason to make their job potentially harder by leaving any sort of mobility in the Unicorn. This is Martha's faction of Vist, which had access to the UC project's data. They of all people should know how dangerous Unicorn could be. Having Banshee guarding over Unicorn isnt a better solution if would mean having to destroy Unicorn if it tries to get away (not that it could, as shown in the anime). Neo Zeon wanted the box intact more than anything, they were the least likely of all sides to have it destroyed. It's also kinda funny too that it was the third time said that that they only had to leave the Unicorn cockpit and the pilot intact yet they had never tried to just disassemble the unicorn, at least partially, when they had the chance to.

Which of course leads to the even stranger situation of General Revil trying to destroy the box by attacking Nahel Argama. Nahel Argama hasn't gone rogue yet, all they had to do is to just order it to stop and legitimately attack it when it doesn't comply. Yes, it pulled up a Neo Zeon ship, but it was under Bright's orders. Honestly, this just seemed to be a lame attempt to make the EFSF (cue the E.F.S.F soundtrack too) look bad. If Fukui had a hand in this, then this just confirms his silly nationalist sentiment that he at least hid somewhat decently in the novel. Not to mention that at least 1/3 or its squardon got owned in 2 minutes and it's in the process of being sunk. If this is Bandai's idea of selling Jegan-A2 [GR]and ReZEL [GR], it's not getting my money.

Overall, like episode 4 it jsut seemed like they either did not have the time or spend the effort to think things over with their changes. I personally would have left out the part with the General Revil out of the ending, or perhaps just hinting at Full Frontal and Angelo waiting for them in space. It would have been a much nicer ending and a better throw back to CCA if it ended with the unicorn pulling the ships together. They actually kinda skipped some of the dynamics of the act itself. In the novel it desribed how Banagher began to see everyone on both ships in that classic newtype space and feeling their collective thoughts of wanting both ships make it and thats when their collective thought made the newtype rainbow happened. That's pretty much where the Novel volume ended as well

[Shinji103]

Yeah, pretty much everything that need be said has been said. (Bright's awesomeness in siding with the Gundam pilot, Banagher getting to show he's a not-want-to-kill-er who can get stuff done all the same, etc.)

But wow. Riddhe. Was he such a douchebag in the novel? Right now all I can see him as is the emo guy who freaked out because the girl he likes jumped off a plane without a parachute for another guy. ^^b

And I so kept thinking that Marida or somebody was going to fly in and OH-NO-YOU-DON'T-TROLLKICK Banagher when he was reaching to pick up Audrey in the Unicorn's hands. ^^b

[Kratos]

Spoiler

Which of course leads to the even stranger situation of General Revil trying to destroy the box by attacking Nahel Argama. Nahel Argama hasn't gone rogue yet, all they had to do is to just order it to stop and legitimately attack it when it doesn't comply. Yes, it pulled up a Neo Zeon ship, but it was under Bright's orders. Honestly, this just seemed to be a lame attempt to make the EFSF (cue the E.F.S.F soundtrack too) look bad.

Spoiler

I got the impression that the attempt to destroy the Nahel Argama was to get rid of all those involved with this hunt for the box. The script seemed to imply that the General Revil was just destroying evidence under the orders of HQ. It had nothing to do with the Box; Martha seems to need to find it in order to seal it, so she needs Banagher and the Unicorn and probably wouldn't have Federation HQ attack for the purpose of destroying them.

Spoiler

I personally would have left out the part with the General Revil out of the ending, or perhaps just hinting at Full Frontal and Angelo waiting for them in space. It would have been a much nicer ending and a better throw back to CCA if it ended with the unicorn pulling the ships together. They actually kinda skipped some of the dynamics of the act itself. In the novel it desribed how Banagher began to see everyone on both ships in that classic newtype space and feeling their collective thoughts of wanting both ships make it and thats when their collective thought made the newtype rainbow happened. That's pretty much where the Novel volume ended as well

I agree, actually; that would have been a much better place to end it. One of my few issues with this episode was the ending, actually; the whole battle felt tacked on, cool as the Rozen Zulu was.

But wow. Riddhe. Was he such a douchebag in the novel? Right now all I can see him as is the emo guy who freaked out because the girl he likes jumped off a plane without a parachute for another guy. ^^b

To be fair to Riddhe's douchebaggery, I get the sense that a lot of it comes from him finding out what was inside the Box (since this behaviour largely started after that meeting with his dad in episode 4), like it broke his mind or something. His dialogue in the Garuda supports this: he's focused on maintaining a status quo, because opening the box would be worse for everyone.

It could also be due to Newtype Shenanigans, both him being one and being physically exposed to a psycoframe resonance - though I admittedly have no clue if said exposure would have any effect, I'm just theorizing here.

[balofo]

Following the trend of the episodes getting worse with each installment, I fear for OVA 6/7.

This whole RX-0 transfer was Tomino level writing, also in the novel Banagher actually fought the Banshee riding an Ankusha. Poor OVA Ankushas...

[MaC]

Spoiler

I got the impression that the attempt to destroy the Nahel Argama was to get rid of all those involved with this hunt for the box. The script seemed to imply that the General Revil was just destroying evidence under the orders of HQ. It had nothing to do with the Box; Martha seems to need to find it in order to seal it, so she needs Banagher and the Unicorn and probably wouldn't have Federation HQ attack for the purpose of destroying them.

I think you're 100% right,

Spoiler

I think the crew even brings it up later, that the General Revil is being used to wipe out all evidence of the box to preserve the status quo. That's why they immediately open fire. If anything this move and all these revelations of shadow-y figures behind the scenes of the Federation pulling off these grand machinations is kind of a good way to explore WHY the Federation is always so corrupt and doing evil stupid things.

Spoiler

I personally would have left out the part with the General Revil out of the ending, or perhaps just hinting at Full Frontal and Angelo waiting for them in space. It would have been a much nicer ending and a better throw back to CCA if it ended with the unicorn pulling the ships together. They actually kinda skipped some of the dynamics of the act itself. In the novel it desribed how Banagher began to see everyone on both ships in that classic newtype space and feeling their collective thoughts of wanting both ships make it and thats when their collective thought made the newtype rainbow happened. That's pretty much where the Novel volume ended as well

I feel like the animation implied this. I've never ever read the novels and I felt like this was going on OVA. It was subtle and not outright explained, but imo there wasn't a place for a long monologue or voice over explaining wtf was happening in detail. They'll probably discuss the glow during a slower-scene in the next episode - but I think the way the scene was framed

Spoiler

Cutting from scenes of the Garencieres crew doing everything they could to gain altitude, scenes of the Nahel Argama crew trying to descend, firing the hook shot, Banagher's buddy shouting "COME BACK TO SPACE! BANAGHER!!", then my favorite moment, when Banagher is getting ripped in half by the force of the two ships and Earth's gravity, when Daguza and Gilboa's hands drop over his, symbolic representations of the people who helped him from Zeon and the Federation, transcending the sides of the war. I believe the scene was more then adequately framed to represent everyone's collective focus on accomplishing that one task and the appearance of Daguza and Gilboa symbolically representing the Garencieres and the Nahel Argama aiding Banagher. It was, in my opinion of course, a magnificently constructed scene. Punctuated by Banagher's eyes opening in space as the glow enveloped the two ships and everyone kinda felt Banagher.

For me it accomplished everything you mentioned, and I am utterly unfamiliar with the books. So take that for what it's worth.

I also gotta say I enjoyed the final action sequence.

Spoiler

Full Frontal and Angelo have been gone for two episodes - over a year our time. They needed to be reintroduced into the story as threats who still have cards to play. Their sudden arrival and blitzkrieg assault on the General Revil worked to me as a closing scene because it's a reminder that the stakes are still sky-high, that these two guys remain problems despite their absence.

I dunno, I gotta agree with the sentiment that this is all Tomino-level. But considering the Gundam shows he produced seem to rank the highest on my list of favorites I fear that means something different to me then a lot of folk here.

Alas, I watched the episode 3 times, had to show 2 different people. We all loved it, bring on 2013 and episode 6. Bring on the near future. Gundam Unicorn is in my book rock solid and this episode was a drastic improvement over episode 4 and the knowledge that the story is being expanded and given more room to breathe makes me even more excited for future installments. And hopeful we won't have any more Loni situations. I don't know how she was in the book but for me Banagher's desperation to save her and her connection to him felt forced and without time to develop her as a character the entirety of the Shamblo action sequence felt hollow. Thankfully in this episode the opposite was true as Banagher's desire to save Marida rang true due to all the development she's had.

[Andrew_Graruru]

A few people have mentioned worries about Banaghers pacifism in the coming episodes, but I think I see where they are going with it. Mineva specifically says to Riddhe that she may have to commit acts of atrocity to find out what Laplaces Box is, and with her and Banagher reunited, I would be surprised if her change in morality causes Banagher to act differently.

The other possibility is that Banagher will just use the FA Unicorn to disarm other mobile suits, or attacks enemy turrets, ect. That'd be an easy way out, but its possible.

The more I think about this episode the more I like it. Little things like how Banagher pulling the garencieres out of the gravity well mirrored the end of CCA (and Bright's reaction to it). I really like how Bright was written. He didn't just show up to dole out some slaps and say some signature lines, you actually see how he's contextualised the different Gundam pilots he's met, and his relationship with Amuro. In that sense, I see his scenes in this episode almost as a nice epilogue to CCA.

[flamingtroll]

I dunno, I gotta agree with the sentiment that this is all Tomino-level. But considering the Gundam shows he produced seem to rank the highest on my list of favorites I fear that means something different to me then a lot of folk here.

I think I was the first to compare it to LOLTOMINO writing. It's only a problem for me personally when it's the central part of the story, like in this OVA, which had plenty of production time and a novel script to base on. It's not just a few awkward episodes in a series like most LOLTOMINO stuff. I personally too like a lot of Tomino directed shows.

[pozdniakov]

Spoiler

Cutting from scenes of the Garencieres crew doing everything they could to gain altitude, scenes of the Nahel Argama crew trying to descend, firing the hook shot, Banagher's buddy shouting "COME BACK TO SPACE! BANAGHER!!", then my favorite moment, when Banagher is getting ripped in half by the force of the two ships and Earth's gravity, when Daguza and Gilboa's hands drop over his, symbolic representations of the people who helped him from Zeon and the Federation, transcending the sides of the war. I believe the scene was more then adequately framed to represent everyone's collective focus on accomplishing that one task and the appearance of Daguza and Gilboa symbolically representing the Garencieres and the Nahel Argama aiding Banagher. It was, in my opinion of course, a magnificently constructed scene. Punctuated by Banagher's eyes opening in space as the glow enveloped the two ships and everyone kinda felt Banagher.

For me it accomplished everything you mentioned, and I am utterly unfamiliar with the books. So take that for what it's worth.

I also gotta say I enjoyed the final action sequence.

I dunno, I gotta agree with the sentiment that this is all Tomino-level. But considering the Gundam shows he produced seem to rank the highest on my list of favorites I fear that means something different to me then a lot of folk here.

Alas, I watched the episode 3 times, had to show 2 different people. We all loved it, bring on 2013 and episode 6. Bring on the near future. Gundam Unicorn is in my book rock solid and this episode was a drastic improvement over episode 4 and the knowledge that the story is being expanded and given more room to breathe makes me even more excited for future installments. And hopeful we won't have any more Loni situations. I don't know how she was in the book but for me Banagher's desperation to save her and her connection to him felt forced and without time to develop her as a character the entirety of the Shamblo action sequence felt hollow. Thankfully in this episode the opposite was true as Banagher's desire to save Marida rang true due to all the development she's had.

The above spoiler i've left in. I though that Daguza and Gilboa's appearance weren't symbolic but that there souls were literally absorbed by the pyscoframe and have become one with the gundam. This is how the biosensor worked so it makes sense for the psycoframe to do so.

[MaC]

The above spoiler i've left in. I though that Daguza and Gilboa's appearance weren't symbolic but that there souls were literally absorbed by the pyscoframe and have become one with the gundam. This is how the biosensor worked so it makes sense for the psycoframe to do so.

Well, I mostly agree with you there. I think they did make an appearance from beyond where ever to actually help Banagher, but I believed the scene was framed symbolically to represent the two sides of the war coming together to achieve something else, seeing as how each character put their hand on the one corresponding to the hand Unicorn was holding the tether to their respective ships on.

I also kinda feel like what actually happens with the Psycho-Frame and the Bio Sensor has been kinda vague. It's obviously some kind of weird stuff but since I don't really buy into souls and such in my head there is a more grounded explanation then that Newtype devices absorb souls, even if that's the official description.