Dark Knight

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Post by assault gundam » Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:34 am

"why so serious?"

Damn that line put chills down my spine after he (The Joker) explained why he said it.
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Post by Folken Fanel » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:36 pm

Phantomexe87 wrote: I wonder how Ledger's death will affect the sequel.
Well, not to sound like a prick or knock Ledger's performance (which was outstanding), but if they ever want to bring back the Joker, all they have to do is find another actor and put the make-up on. Sure, the little things Ledger added to the character (licking the lips, etc.) are great and make the character even better, but all can be duplicated. I doubt that any subsequent Joker performances will live up to our expectations after the Dark Knight, but it wouldn't be that hard to bring the character back.
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Post by Soul Bro Ryu » Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:41 pm

So was most of the cast. Despite the Joker being the character we all looked forward to the most on screen, Eckhart's Dent was right behind him in performances. Despite most people hating on Bale's "Batman" voice, he was rock solid again as the character in all his forms. I especially like how his "Bruce Wayne" reminds me of Kevin Conroy's "Batman: The Animated Series" Bruce Wayne. It's mostly apparant when he crashes the "Lam-bo-geeny" and acts like it's an accident. Classic Conroy.

I pray that if Nolan does decide to do another one, he waits at least another 3 years and have this one involve Victor Fries. Aside from Two-Face, his once of the more empathetic member's of the Rogue' Gallery.

The question is how do you fit a more "super-villian' type of character like "Mr. Freeze" into Nolan's realistic Batman universe? I'd like to find out...
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Post by duke4799 » Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:50 pm

Personally, I'd rather see the Riddler done right if he were to do a 3rd movie. Jim Carry just butchered the character, granted that could have been writting, but he was't even right for the part.

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Post by SNT1 » Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:06 pm

I think Catwoman is more plausible now, Especially after Rachel's death they could use another central female in the cast.
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Post by V2 » Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:28 pm

finally got to watch it.

1. ledger's portrayal is absolutely magnificent.
2. the plot has its twists and turns. you'd expect one part to end but it is already the beginning of another.
3. its not just your regular "here-i-come-to-save-the-day" superhero movie. it also has a lot of arguments on the issues of heroism and the importance of laws, etc.
4. i wasnt expecting the batpod to come from the batmobile! rest in peace, tumbler!

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Post by RedBlitz » Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:11 pm

Shinji103 wrote:The only thing even close to a complaint that I would have (and I mean in the "wow it was so well-done" way, not the "that part of the movie sucked" way), was how Batman had to take the fall for Two-Face in taking the blame for the people he killed. They better make a third movie. (I say third because I view the Christian Bale movies as an alternate-universe way, as it should be taken) Although I have no idea how they'll be able to have Batman's name cleared without it being kind of corny and wreck-balling the end of Dark Knight.

And did anybody think that Two-Face's time in the spotlight was a bit short? Unless he's still alive. (despite that scene at the end with Gordon making a speech looking like his funeral and memorial service) Two-Face deserved a little more spotlight than that, imo.
I dont think he's dead, remember Batman fell from the same height as him and he didnt die, sure the bat suit took in most of the impact which in my opinion is why Batman wasent knocked out. And if you look at harvey on the floor, he doesnt seem to be bleeding or anything so imagine he was just knocked out pretty dam good!

As for the "memorial service" at the end, sure they wont blame the crimes on harvey publicly... but he's still a crazy murderer with half of his face missing, they cant let him walk around like he did nothing wrong. So they faked his death and locked him up in Arkham.

If you listen carefully nowhere is it mentioned that Harvey is dead... but that Batman will take responsibility for his murders, so if they want him in the next one... he can come back.
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Post by Aegis » Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:59 pm

So, for my next trick, I'm going to magically make this pencil disappear. :evil:

*crack*

Tada! :P

For me, it wasn't Jack Nicholson that Heath Ledger's Joker needed to surpass. As good as Jack Nicholson was, it was Mark Hamil's Joker that I thought was superior, and THAT was the benchmark as far as I was concerned. Needless to say, I like Ledger's take ALOT more than Nicholson's, and probably a little more than Hamil's voice. He was funny, yet scary at the same time. His Joker was truly a formidable foe for Batman; in fact, even captured and arrested, Batman never looked like he had any advantage whatsoever.

Now, as amazing as Ledger was (and make no mistake, he was absolutely brilliant), you really can't ignore the performances of the other actors, specifically Aaron Eckhart's portrayal of Harvey Dent/Two Face. He went from Gotham's 'White Knight' to ill-tempered DA to raging psycho and portrayed Harvey's fall very nicely. He definitely made me forget the travesty that was Tommy Lee Jones' Two Face. That make-up is also gonna haunt my dreams for a while. @[email protected]

And you don't need to be bleeding to be dead. Despite the corruption, I doubt they're going to use Harvey as a cover-up like that given the amount of respect he's been given (especially when you have Gordon and Batman being the ones there). For the sake of plot, especially given the line that Harvey gave ("You either die a hero, or live long enough to become a villain"), it is only appropriate that Harvey dies, thus that's what I'm sticking to.

I'm not a fan of Bale's gravelly voice myself, but that doesn't dilute the fact that Bale was once again portrayed a solid Bruce/Batman, be it pretending to be the pretty-boy playboy, the superhero, or the tired and fed up Bruce who badly wants to hang his cowl for good. He portrayed Bruce's conflict of identity and struggle for a normal life very well. And what the Batman did in the end, I had to feel for him since he did more than return the favour for Harvey Dent with his sacrifice, and Gary Oldman's expression as Gordon when he had to smash the Bat signal was priceless.

Man, there's so much to say about the movie, but all I can say is that The Dark Knight has set a new standard for superhero movies to follow. Other than perhaps Wall-E, there's no other movie I want to see no more thanks to this; as far as I'm concerned, all other movies this summer will fall short.

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Post by Phantomexe87 » Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:19 pm

Well, the good thing about Ledger's Joker is that he wore a ton of Joker, so at least from an aesthetic approach, replacing him would not be too obvious. Recasting actors is also a Batman tradition. I definitely want to see this version return, maybe with a movie version of Harley Quinn in tow.

As for a villain for the third movie, after seeing the Incredible Hulk, I could go for Killer Croc, with a design à la that movie's version of the Abomination.

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Post by RedBlitz » Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:48 pm

Phantomexe87 wrote:Well, the good thing about Ledger's Joker is that he wore a ton of Joker, so at least from an aesthetic approach, replacing him would not be too obvious. Recasting actors is also a Batman tradition. I definitely want to see this version return, maybe with a movie version of Harley Quinn in tow.

As for a villain for the third movie, after seeing the Incredible Hulk, I could go for Killer Croc, with a design à la that movie's version of the Abomination.
Yeah but someone like Killer Croc can only be a flunky... also Begins and Dark Knight are going for a more realistic approach, so I doubt killer croc would fit in.

People that could fit in perfecly with a sequel as the main villain.

Joker & Harley and maybe special clown gang called the Jokerz?? (see batman beyond for that last part)

Riddler, they made a solid Two-Face in Dark Knight, im sure they can pull off a good Riddler!! And we might already have our candidate, remember that smart employe who wanted to reveal Batman's secret? His name was Mr. Reese.... Mysteries maybe? I'll leave you on that. :roll:

Catwoman could definitely make an appeanrace as both a villain and a hero in possible sequels.

Two-Face, like I said before, they didnt clearly say that Harvey is dead. They had the fake funeral thing in my opinion to make it look like he's dead, but he might be locked up in Arkham for all we know. If Batman can survive from that height, then so can Harvey. Unless he fell on his head and broke his neck, but that didnt look like the case.

As for Bane, Deadshot, Firefly I think they could make excellent flunkies to the main villain.

But the main villain I would like to see is a realistic version of Mr. Freeze, sure it's probaly impossible to make. But the whole story with his wive could be adapted well to movie. That episode in the series did win an emmy award!
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Post by Phantomexe87 » Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:27 am

I think the Jokerz are actually a realistic evolution at this point, since a lot of crooks would idolize the Joker, and try to be like him.

Though I think if you can have a French fellow training ninjas in Mongolia who are part of an organization which sacked ancient Rome (see the Dark Knight's prequel, Batman Begins), a large fellow with a bad skin condition isn't really much of a stretch. Though Croc really is more of a B villain.

As for Catwoman, I imagine they'd shy away from her until everyone forgets that horrible movie with Halle Berry. The movie goers need more time to heal. They could introduce her alter ego though.

I suppose Bane has some potential, as long as they make his use of Venom somewhat realistic. I can't imagine Bane as a flunky, I mean, they did that in Batman and Robin, and that infuriated fans. He's one of Batman's few intellectual equals, and one of the very few who ever defeated him.

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Post by Gadget » Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:51 am

Urr.... guys. Batman is sometime known as the 'World's Greatest Ditective'. Some of the rouges were a bit of no brainer, like Firefly or killaCroc. In Kightfall, Bane, of all people, was able to figure out Bruce Wayne is Batman. I prefer a bit more psycologic. The Batman series failed because it became a slam bang movies.

One person that Batman could not really catch is Hush. He is almost as good or even better than Batman. This is the wiki summary on Hush arc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman:_Hush

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Post by Soul Bro Ryu » Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:08 am

I'm sure most will disagree with me, here, judging the dark, psychological themes behind the Nolan Bros. previous works along with her most recent offering, that I now know who could adapt a certain anime series into live action.

If they're ever exposed to a little show called "Code Geass", my head would explode at the emotional and tension-building [email protected]%&! these guys would adapt it into. Just the rivalry between Lelouch & Suzaku, if it's even a fraction of clashing of the Joker & the Bats in "Knight", then any fan of Geass would be in for a treat. But since there's mecha in the series, either Nolan would need help from a visionary CG-effects studio like the tech wizards that worked on "Transformers". To have a realistic, gritty spin on such an already suspenseful anime would be a dream come true. Too bad it'll probably go to a much less talented director, as Hollywood will probably be prone to do if a major studio ever buys the rights. After hearing what Paul W.S. Anderson has planned for "Castlevania" maybe it's best for Geass to stay off the live action radar for the time being, after all.

Getting back on track though after derailing the train, it seems a lot of folks are taking shots on who the next candidates from the Rogues Gallery might show up in the next (hypothetically possible) Nolan Batman adaptation. We've already named a few but to expand upon those thoughts, here's are my Top 5 possible villains in this movie universe, and then my Top 5 impossible antagonists in this universe that I'd like to see their take on. Here goes:

Top Five Easily Adaptable Villains
05. Dr. Hugo Strange
Very Psychological Villain. As Batman's first reoccurring adversary, if he is involved, I'm sure he'll be a lower tier opponent that appears in the movie as opposed to headlining it.

04. "Catwoman"
One of the strongest candidates for the next film, and the best replacement for a female lead. Just as long as it isn't Halle Berry.

03. "The Riddler"/Edward Nygma
Especially since he was a Wayne Enterprises Employee at a time. But the challenge to not make him corny would either result in a terrible script or a masterpiece.

02. "The Mad Hatter"
Another Psychological Villain, and one of Batman's more demented villains. A personal favorite, but more unlikely to come about without a solid angle to run with, story-wise, first.

01. "The Clock King"/Temple Fugate
Jesus Christ, that would be straight awesome. Supernatural manipulation from time aside, with this guy you can create situations where time constraints are a factor and use it build tension to an incredible high. Persona-wise, ol' Temp is kinda-ho-hum, but he's a sharp cat and has put Bruce on edge numerous times.

Top Five Impossible-to-Adapt Villains

05. "The Penguin"/Oswald Cobblepot
Give us the middle-man crime boss he's involved into, and you've got the potential to develop a more realistic version of this character. A lot of folks are asking to cast Phillip Seymour Hoffman as the bird in question, and I for one can't dispute that.

04. "Man-Bat"/Various
Not one I'd be quick to through throw out there, and unless Nolan went very old-school, monster-noir with this one, it would be a tough sell. Made for great eps in the animated series, though

03. "Mr. Freeze"/Dr. Victor Fries
Personally, I pray they could figure out an angle to involve him in the next movie, but with a realistic spin that would blow the audience's collective mind. Color me crazy, but if they do venture forth with Freeze, I wouldn't mind them taking a further departure with the casting and pick Will Smith to play him. After seeing "I Am Legend", I think he could carry this tragic character well, but it would be taking a chance, since I have no idea how he'd fit into a Nolan film.

02. "Poison-Ivy"/Dr. Pamela Isley
Aside from number one, she's downright impossible to do for the next film, unless you introduce her before the accident in cameo. If they toned down her powers and make her an environmental terrorist who's immune to and uses the very toxins that mankind has created against them in a future installment, you may have a dark horse here, and would introduce more femme fatale to the series. Just a thought, but I'd like to see her as much as 3 & 1.

01. "Clayface"/Matthew Hagen
Hands down, his origin was one of the best two-parters in the animated series, leading up to a dramaitic finish. You'd have to tweak his powers a great deal, but I'd still keep the angle that he can reshape himself into almost anyone humanoid. Hell, I'd bring back Ron "Hellboy" Perlman to play him as Hagen and Clayface (in his raw form) an voice him when he speaks out of the "character" he's portraying. He's probably the most impossible to bring into Nolan's world, but the challenge to adapt him into this universe might make for an outstanding flick in the eventual future.

Just as long as this franchise doesn't got the way of Schumaker, things will never get as bad as the poop known as "Batman & Robin". on the flip-side of the coin, it's going to be a feat to top "The Dark Knight", and I can understand Chris Nolan's reluctance to do another one. If another isn't made with his involvement, than I don't think Bale should sign up for one either. But, in the rare case that another one is announced, I hope they surprise us with Two-Face's (possible) return and the potential revenge he can cast upon Gordon & Batman.

It's wouldn't be bad if they introduce young Dick Grayson also, but he should be so young that there's no chance he'd know who Bruce really was or stand the chance to become "Robin" anytime soon. Only allude to it.

Damn, that was a rambling. Embarrassment soon to follow. ^_^
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Post by aberrance » Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:30 am

I just can't comprehend how good this movie was. The only time I didn't like the movie was when they killed off Gordon, but when they brought him back the movie was ten times more glorious than before.

This was simply the best movie ever. Period.

If I were Christopher Nolan, I'd definitely be afraid of making a third Batman, let alone another movie at all after this masterpiece. I do, however, still want to see more and Christian Bale said he would play Bruce Wayne/Batman if there was another. Here's to hoping. :D

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Post by Phantomexe87 » Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:41 am

I could go for the Penguin. With Batman a fugitive, and Harvey Dent out of commission, I could see Gotham City having a "relapse", with it going back to being extremely criminal and corrupt, and the Penguin, the refined, classy crime boss taking advantage of it.

The real thing is that Batman can't become too realistic, because then it disenfranchises most of its established characters.

Dark Knight alone pushes realism, with a clown terrorizing a city the size of New York. Then again, they very concept of a multi-billionaire dressing up as a bat and scarring the crap out of mobsters is pretty unrealistic to begin with. Just as long as you can make it convincing, it's fine.

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Post by Gadget » Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:58 pm

If I want realism, I'll just read the newspaper :lol:

How about Batman's woman. He seems to have more love interest than my MG collection. I would like to see Talia al Ghul, you know Ras's daughter.
What is interesting is that Batman have a 'son' with her.

And something I notice on the Batcycle, (I've half expected that it would fold into a Mospeda-like armour) Batman hates guns. And there are 2 big guns on the Batcycle.

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Post by Bright Noa » Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:57 pm

Soul Bro Ryu wrote:02. "The Mad Hatter"
Another Psychological Villain, and one of Batman's more demented villains. A personal favorite, but more unlikely to come about without a solid angle to run with, story-wise, first.
I will say that the idea of Jervis Tetch (yes, that's Mad Hatter's real name) following up on the Joker would not be a good thing because of Ledger's performance. Ledger did the crazy psychological villain so well that whoever plays Tetch would have to work harder to at least be on par with Ledger.

Then again, Tetch is a Brit, so casting him would be very interesting; it's a pity that Roddy McDowell is no longer with us, he was great as the animated Mad Hatter. And I agree that Tetch would make an interesting villain, along with the fact that he once managed to control Lucius Fox and various members of GPD in the comics could make for an interesting side plot with Bruce having to not only handle Tetch wreaking havoc, but being faced with the dilemma of his closest friends and allies being used against him.
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Post by Aegis » Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:00 am

Gadget wrote:How about Batman's woman. He seems to have more love interest than my MG collection. I would like to see Talia al Ghul, you know Ras's daughter.
In fact, somehow I wouldn't be surprised that we'll be seeing her sooner than Catwoman, even though Catwoman is the more famous of the two. With Talia, you got potential for a serious love/hate relationship considering the fact that she is Ras' daughter, amongst other things. That, and I always did find Talia to be one of the sexier women in the Batman universe. >>
And something I notice on the Batcycle, (I've half expected that it would fold into a Mospeda-like armour) Batman hates guns. And there are 2 big guns on the Batcycle.
Nevermind the Batpod. The Bat Tumbler was also equipped with machine guns and rocket launchers in its arsenal. Mind you, vehicle mounted weapons weren't his problem as much as the hand held guns that he tends to freak out over (at least when he's personally holding them, anyways).

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Post by v_zubko » Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:48 am

As good as the Dark Knight is, topping it wouldn’t be that hard if the third film managed to make use of the line “I want you to remember …my hand …at your throat… I want… you to remember… the one man who beat you…”
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Post by Phantomexe87 » Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:14 am

Talia would work, since Ra's mentioned in Batman Begins that he was married, so him having a daughter in this version isn't all too surprising.

It is odd that the League of Shadows isn't referred to in the movie at all, unless I missed any references. Ra's Al Ghul wasn't even mentioned.

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