Tales Series

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Re: Tales Series

Post by NastyNate » Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:58 am

I'm about 12 to 18 hours in. I have not done really any side quest to my knowledge. Don't really know how to do them to be honest. The game is taking me extra long because I'm playing through couch co op with a friend. But I get my bang for my buck for sure.

I watched the tales of vesperia anime a little while back and thought it was great. So I'm looking forward to grabbing that one for the 360 maybe one day.
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Re: Tales Series

Post by Shinji103 » Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:27 am

Destiny_Gundam wrote:The thing that surprise me most were the relationships. I went into this game pretty much blind (never heard anyone talk about it, compared to Xillia), so I didn't know how things would develop. But a few hours in my genre savviness had me rolling my eyes at the inevitable.
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With Sophie set up as the main heroine you'd think she would end up with Asbel, while Cheria would suffer the same fate as most childhood friends before her.
I'm getting real sick of this sort of thing and it lowers my enthusiasm (glances at Xillia). Boy was I happy I was wrong in this case.
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Sophie very much stayed the child of the group and Asbel took a fathery role towards her (which is kinda funny when you remember Asbel met her when he was 11). It was a nice change of pace, which allowed Cheria to get with Asbel and for all of them to live happily ever after.
Meh, we'll have to agree to disagree on that. :P Especially with how they were so setting up AsbelxSophie at the beginning in various ways, far from least of which was all of Asbel's blushing around Sophie. He knew her for all of three minutes before he started blushing at her. ^^b

But yeah I loved how the combat system was so different from all other Tales games with the CC and Guard+Sidestep systems. I especially like how they put a twist on select button skits and the battle results skits. I really like how they did full-body-shots for the skits with cut-ins for certain events. But I loved how they revolutionized the battle-results skits by doing so little. Instead of the usual "stand there and drop funny lines," they have actual little acts between characters. And I especially love how they did this with the Code Geass costume spoofs for Asbel, Sophie, and Richard when you have them put on their respective CG costumes. Although I never saw one for Cheria even though I left her in her Karen Kouzuki costume ever since I unlocked it.
All-in-all, Graces F is easily my favorite Tales game so far.

So far I've played Tales of Graces F, Xillia 1 and 2, Tales of the World Radiant Mythology 3 (got that one specfically because it has Graces in it :)), and I just finished Vesperia the other day. I just got a PS Vita a few weeks ago, so I got Tales of Hearts and Innocence R which are waiting for me to start. I'm also waiting for the US release of Symphonia Unisonant Pack since the US release is going to have dual audio. I've got a lot of games backed up. ^^b

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Re: Tales Series

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:19 pm

NastyNate wrote:The game is taking me extra long because I'm playing through couch co op with a friend.
Is there any particular reason you have to play it co-op?
Shinji103 wrote:Meh, we'll have to agree to disagree on that. :P Especially with how they were so setting up AsbelxSophie at the beginning in various ways, far from least of which was all of Asbel's blushing around Sophie. He knew her for all of three minutes before he started blushing at her. ^^b
Well it's hardly strange for a boy that age to get a little star struck when meeting an older girl like that. Him growing up and her not changed that dynamic.
Shinji103 wrote:Although I never saw one for Cheria even though I left her in her Karen Kouzuki costume ever since I unlocked it.
She has one with Richard.

In regards to costumes, I only got the in-game ones but I never really liked any of Sophie's until she got her L&L one. I left her in Patty's before that because it was the one I disliked the least. Cheria and Asbel's swimsuits were the only ones I liked so I kept them in those for a large chunk. The goggle accessory for Cheria added an nice touch since they're left on her forehead instead of over her eyes. Don't like Hubert's default so I kept him in his modern clothes, I kept Malik in his default, and Pascal in her formal clothes.

Cheria's Rita's outfit is nice, but damn was it a pain to get. Stupid cheating computers.

With Tales of Symphonia HD and Xillia 2 set for NA releases, it's nice to have more Tales to look forward to.
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Re: Tales Series

Post by Shinji103 » Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:23 pm

Destiny_Gundam wrote:
Shinji103 wrote:Meh, we'll have to agree to disagree on that. :P Especially with how they were so setting up AsbelxSophie at the beginning in various ways, far from least of which was all of Asbel's blushing around Sophie. He knew her for all of three minutes before he started blushing at her. ^^b
Well it's hardly strange for a boy that age to get a little star struck when meeting an older girl like that. Him growing up and her not changed that dynamic.
It's strange in an a JRPG story for a guy to blush at her so many dang times if it's not for setting up a future romance.
It's not all that uncommon in Japan these past couple years; we've seen quite a few times where the staff decide to change the plot or what happens in a series/game after having already finished a good part of it. The most obvious example is Code Geass; the whole Zero Requiem arc and all the things they didn't answer. (the reason for Suzaku's high physical abilities which the staff said in an interview was for a reason, why he reacted to the Geass symbol on the Geass island in S1, etc. etc.)
Shinji103 wrote:Although I never saw one for Cheria even though I left her in her Karen Kouzuki costume ever since I unlocked it.
She has one with Richard.
That's not a Code Geass spoof. (I saw that one in one of the Nintendo Wii ToG walkthrough videos anyway, so it definitely isn't) The one's I'm talking about are where the characters quote their CG costume character. I've only seen them for Asbel, Sophie, and Richard despite that I almost always have Cheria in my party since she's the main healer. Either the computer has just been really mean and won't show it, or for some reason they didn't give her a CG quote like the others.
In regards to costumes, I only got the in-game ones but I never really liked any of Sophie's until she got her L&L one. I left her in Patty's before that because it was the one I disliked the least. Cheria and Asbel's swimsuits were the only ones I liked so I kept them in those for a large chunk. The goggle accessory for Cheria added an nice touch since they're left on her forehead instead of over her eyes. Don't like Hubert's default so I kept him in his modern clothes, I kept Malik in his default, and Pascal in her formal clothes.

Cheria's Rita's outfit is nice, but damn was it a pain to get. Stupid cheating computers.
I got Asbel, Richard, and Cheria's DLC CG costumes just because I was a major CG nerd back then. ^^b I pretty much kept them in those costumes, put Sophie in her f costume (I think it was under her "Sophie-chan" title), put Hubert in his modern costume, and left Malik and Pascal in default.
With Tales of Symphonia HD and Xillia 2 set for NA releases, it's nice to have more Tales to look forward to.
Indeed, it's nice to see the JRPG getting back its US foothold outside of Final Fantasy, and the official PS4 promo video (the one they display in Best Buy) even uses a few shots from Xillia.

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Re: Tales Series

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:53 pm

Shinji103 wrote:It's strange in an a JRPG story for a guy to blush at her so many dang times if it's not for setting up a future romance.
It's not all that uncommon in Japan these past couple years; we've seen quite a few times where the staff decide to change the plot or what happens in a series/game after having already finished a good part of it.
Eh, I don't think that's the case here. As I said before, Sophie was very much the child of the group, so she'd only be seen as a potential love interest if you have a specific kind of taste. I doubt Asbel fits into that group.

Though with Lineage and Legacies, they obvious decided they had to amp up the Asbel/Cheria stuff. Even without that I think the original stinger was a perfect indicator of how that ended up.
Shinji103 wrote:That's not a Code Geass spoof.
She's talking about how she used to be an ill-girl character, which is what Kallen pretended to be.
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Re: Tales Series

Post by NastyNate » Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:30 pm

Destiny_Gundam wrote: Is there any particular reason you have to play it co-op?
No real reason. I could still play my own save while I have a different save with my friend. But I decided it would not be as fun while we where playing if I had been through that part.
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Re: Tales Series

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:00 pm

Yeah, I've only ever done that with Resident Evil games. If I had to wait for a friend to come over in order to play a game I'd never make any progress.

In terms of controlling other characters, I'm only really able to manage with Asbel and Sophie (and sometimes Pascal). I can make it through Riot Peak's master class easily enough in the main game (beating Veige one on one is out of the question, though) because of my high level. However when trying it in the future arc (I didn't think there'd be new enemies) I lost pretty easily since some characters just aren't that good by themselves. I rectified this by transforming most of them into Sophie using the dolls (Cheria got to be Asbel) and breezed through it. Poisson wasn't too hard, but at one point I had to take control of Cheria in order to revive Asbel and Sophie. Thankfully Pascal kept Poisson at bay while I did so.
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Re: Tales Series

Post by Shinji103 » Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:14 am

Destiny_Gundam wrote:Eh, I don't think that's the case here. As I said before, Sophie was very much the child of the group, so she'd only be seen as a potential love interest if you have a specific kind of taste. I doubt Asbel fits into that group.

Though with Lineage and Legacies, they obvious decided they had to amp up the Asbel/Cheria stuff. Even without that I think the original stinger was a perfect indicator of how that ended up.
That's another thing that got changed up a bit between the childhood and adult arcs. She grew to be quite mature by the end of the childhood arc and wasn't all that naive anymore, even sighing at young Asbel's impulsiveness. (to which Cheria and Hubert even reacted in surprise to how she had changed in the short time they knew her) Then it felt like they hit the rewind button on her to "de-mature" her and make her the child character of the rest of the game.
Not to mention she's supposed to be physically 14; that's older than Asbel, Hubert, and Cheria in the childhood arc. If they'd wanted to make her the child of the group from the game's first conception, that's exactly what they would have done from the beginning.
Plus, even though they refer to themselves as adults in the rest of the story, Asbel, Hubert, and Cheria are still only 18. Not much of an age gap there, and certainly nothing that Japan hasn't done before. ^^b

Lineage and Legacies?
She's talking about how she used to be an ill-girl character, which is what Kallen pretended to be.
Cheria was an ill-girl character in Graces in her childhood, remember? That's what she's talking about.
And as I said, that post-battle skit (the skit, not the cotumes) was in the original Graces game on the Wii which didn't have any CG costumes or spoofing in it; that was all PS3 exclusive.

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Re: Tales Series

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:45 pm

Shinji103 wrote:Not to mention she's supposed to be physically 14; that's older than Asbel, Hubert, and Cheria in the childhood arc.
That's the thing: she was the older one then so of course she comes across as the mature one. Also at that point she was still very much a blank slate, only starting to get in touch with her emotions. During the main portion of the game, she becomes the youngest and this new situation influences her development.

If Sophie stuck around for those 7 years, then yeah things would be different. But her 'death' had a major impact on everyone so I hardly think that it's something they wrote in later.

Anyways, you're right that it's strange that Sophie never became a romantic interest, but that they avoided such a predictable and cliche plot development is something to be lauded. On top of that, Sophie becoming Asbel's daughter felt more organic than certain other examples. Yui.
Shinji103 wrote:Lineage and Legacies?
That's the name of the 6 months later portion of the game.
Shinji103 wrote:Cheria was an ill-girl character in Graces in her childhood, remember?
I know, but the way she says it implies that it was merely an act, like Kallen's. That's why Richard was so shocked.
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Re: Tales Series

Post by Shinji103 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:45 pm

Destiny_Gundam wrote:That's the thing: she was the older one then so of course she comes across as the mature one. Also at that point she was still very much a blank slate, only starting to get in touch with her emotions. During the main portion of the game, she becomes the youngest and this new situation influences her development.
But they "dematured" her in the adult arc to make her the child. She felt much more naive and childish than she grew to be by the end of the childhood arc.
If Sophie stuck around for those 7 years, then yeah things would be different. But her 'death' had a major impact on everyone so I hardly think that it's something they wrote in later.
I'm not saying they wrote her death in later. I'm saying it looked like they wrote out AsbelxSophie in favor of AsbelxCheria. And it would be far from the first time something like this happened. *glares at NanoFate*
Anyways, you're right that it's strange that Sophie never became a romantic interest, but that they avoided such a predictable and cliche plot development is something to be lauded. On top of that, Sophie becoming Asbel's daughter felt more organic than certain other examples. Yui
That's the only reason it doesn't hurt as much, though I still wouldn't have minded the cliche for AsbelxSophie.
That's the name of the 6 months later portion of the game.
Ah, I remember now. I got used to calling it just "f." ^^b
Eh, I do think they needed the AsbelxCheria stuff; their kid in the ending came a bit out of left field. It was so disconnected that I remember a lot of players thought Cheria and Richard had gotten together in the ending because of that scene they shared where Richard was hurt fighting monsters. ^^b
I know, but the way she says it implies that it was merely an act, like Kallen's. That's why Richard was so shocked.
No, the joke/pun there was that Richard confused the wording/meaning in what Cheria was saying.
I can't remember the exact details (it's a bit deep on the Japanese), but you know how a lot of Japanese words can have double meaning? (for example, they use the word "ude", which means "arm", for "skill" too) That's what happened there.

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Re: Tales Series

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Thu Oct 17, 2013 1:12 am

Shinji103 wrote:But they "dematured" her in the adult arc to make her the child. She felt much more naive and childish than she grew to be by the end of the childhood arc.
Eh, I'd probably say "softened" rather than "dematured." In the adulthood arc she was exposed to far more of the world so I think it only natural she developed some wide eyed curiosity. I'm sure listening to Malik didn't help things either :lol:
Shinji103 wrote:I'm not saying they wrote her death in later. I'm saying it looked like they wrote out AsbelxSophie in favor of AsbelxCheria. And it would be far from the first time something like this happened. *glares at NanoFate*
If that were the case, at what point in development do you think the change was made? Because only the childhood arc had any sort of hinting that Asbel was interested in Sophie. There's no such moments in the adult arc, so it couldn't have been that far into development. But if that's the case they would have gone back and removed that stuff from the childhood arc.
Shinji103 wrote:That's the only reason it doesn't hurt as much, though I still wouldn't have minded the cliche for AsbelxSophie.
I think it would have been a tad weird if he hooked up with a kid who used to be older than him.
Shinji103 wrote:Eh, I do think they needed the AsbelxCheria stuff; their kid in the ending came a bit out of left field.
While I did appreciate them being more explicit about it, there were plenty of moments between them in the main game. Like this.. And this.

Seems like they are making up for lost time, what with them even being paired up in Twin Brave.
Shinji103 wrote:No, the joke/pun there was that Richard confused the wording/meaning in what Cheria was saying.
I can't remember the exact details (it's a bit deep on the Japanese), but you know how a lot of Japanese words can have double meaning? (for example, they use the word "ude", which means "arm", for "skill" too) That's what happened there.
[/quote]

Then it's weird of all the skit compilation videos I watched (including the Wii versions), I've only seen that skit with the CG costumes.
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Re: Tales Series

Post by AceWhatever » Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:20 am

While the circumstances of Sophie's introduction were somewhat unusual, I always just saw her as the Tales' requisite tragic moeblob/loli archetype (and I mean that with regards to just how the Tales games depict this stereotype, not the extreme connotations of the term) so I never had any doubt that she wasn't gonna be the eventual love interest since Cheria was introduced around the same time.

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Re: Tales Series

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:41 pm

Usually the mysterious girl always wins over the childhood friend, so the cynic in me had me resigned to history repeating itself. In hindsight it might have been better for me to get Xillia out of the way first so Graces would have been extra special.

Prologue Sophie was a bit too typical a Rei archetype. Main arc Sophie is better, especially when she's being adorable.

The skits in this game really are great. My favourite is this one. The ending to this one is sweet too. Malik is priceless :lol: Too bad we didn't get the DLC skits, though.

I wonder why they went back to just the talking faces for Xillia. And while I'm chipping away at Abyss 3D, the voiceless skits are pretty painful.

I know I said I was gonna take a break and start MGS4, but that didn't happen. I guess I just wasn't ready to say goodbye, so I'm still playing Graces. I've done 4 floors of Zhonecage so far, and I recently unlocked Evil and Chaos difficulties. While I was working on that I also developed my eleth mixer and saved up some money by continually one-shotting the Rockagong.

I managed to beat the final boss on moderate and hard handily enough, but doing it on Evil, I don't know what the hell was going on. I get him down to almost dead, but then he'll keep spamming this energy blast from the ground that'll kill all my guys in one hit. The way he can cast 4 artes in a row with 0 wait time is fricken cheap ass. I'm gonna try and piggyback him for the 60 second trophy.

I really like the stinger, but
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I can't decide if Sophie's story is about herself or Lambda.
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Re: Tales Series

Post by AceWhatever » Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:05 am

I think the story could refer to both of them.

Piggybacking the final boss is a bit tricky because you have to do it from his light pillars or Sword Deluge. His physical attack makes him invincible for the duration.

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Re: Tales Series

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:09 pm

Well I managed to do it after a few tries (thank god for the continue option) on both Evil and Chaos. But it took some waiting for him to use the right attack. Cheria is my piggybacker of choice, though I guess most people use Hubert. Of the gameplay videos I watched, I notice a lot of people main Hubert. I always stick with Asbel and when I must I'll turn the others into Sophie. Hubert dies too quickly in my experience so I don't really use him (plus I don't need another melee attacker). I stick with Asbel, Sophie, and Cheria, and swap between Malik and Pascal for arte support.
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