[GSD] Did Fukuda REALLY say...

[Vent Noir]

...that Kira and co were the bad guys in Destiny, and Durandal and Shin were the heroes, or is that just an internet BS rumor?

If he did, please include a source if you can.

[Wingnut]

This is the first I've ever heard of anything like that.
If anything, it seems more the other way around.

[Destiny_Gundam]

I believe what Fukuda is actually rumored to have said is that Shinn was always the main protagonist of Destiny. Whether he said that or not, we know it's BS as Kira clearly stole the show. That much was obvious the moment the Strike Freedom appeared on the title screen in the 3rd opening.

[Imperial]

It looks like you've stumbled upon one of the most popular GSD rumors on the web.

The rumor goes that, once the show was over, Fukuda spoke positively of the ZAFT camp, declaring that Shin and friends were the heroes all along. Sometimes, you'll hear something about Fukuda saying Kira and friends "strayed from the path of justice."

The only problem is that no one seems capable of confirming any of this. The rumor gets tossed around as freely as candy at Halloween, but no one ever seems to have the alleged interview on hand. In short, I don't put any stock in it and neither should you.

[Phoenix012]

...that Kira and co were the bad guys in Destiny, and Durandal and Shin were the heroes, or is that just an internet BS rumor?

If he did, please include a source if you can.

If someone said that to you, then they're incorrect.

What Fukuda did say was that Kira and co. had somewhat strayed from the path of justice. I know I saw the interview at some point, because I searched the internet incessently in order to solve the same question you just brought up. I am currently searching for a link again right now, and I'll edit this post if I find it.

I think this is a fair assessment. While I am by no means a Kira hater, when Kira showed up in the Mediterranean in Destiny he screwed things up royally for everyone involved, not to mention racking up quite a body count for someone who is so adverse to killing.

Now, that doesn't mean Kira is a villain. Some people think he is, but he's not intended to be one. The point is he's not perfect, and while he believes strongly in his own actions and no one will probably ever be able to convince him that he's made a mistake, not everyone has to agree with the things he's done.

That's all Fukuda meant. Fukuda did not say Kira is a villain, he did not say Shinn was the hero. Destiny was a story of clashing ideologies where eventually someone had to win and someone had to lose. For better or for worse, Kira won, and Shinn lost, and that's all there is to it.

EDIT: Well, for the life of me I can't find Fukuda's only post-Destiny interview. I will not expect you to believe me without a source, hell I'm beginning to wonder now if I bought a bunch of baloney myself, though I'm still pretty sure I remember reading a transcript of that interview and that he did say something along those lines, but I can't prove it.

Anyways, a lot of the things people try to claim Fukuda said are nonsense as you suspect. Just ignore them.

[Destiny_Gundam]

Fukuda did not say Kira is a villain, he did not say Shinn was the hero.

Well, one thing we can say for sure is that (from looking at the initial set up), if Shinn is the protagonist, then Kira is certainly the antagonist. The antagonist is just some one who opposes the protagonist. 'Villainy' has nothing to do with it. It's simply just rare that the antagonist would be the victor in the end.

Personally, the rumor I want verified is the one about Morisawa screwing over Cagalli and Shinn because their VAs pissed her off.

[Zero Revenge]

Well with people asking about rumors being confirmed or denied...

Is it true that Kira's appearance in the show was as long as "important" as it was only because the VA cried until Morisawa convinced Fukuda to write him in for a longer purpose? (IE: Taking over the protagonist role)

[J-Lead]

Well with people asking about rumors being confirmed or denied...

Is it true that Kira's appearance in the show was as long as "important" as it was only because the VA cried until Morisawa convinced Fukuda to write him in for a longer purpose? (IE: Taking over the protagonist role)

I've never even heard that one, although there are a lot of rumors revolving around Morosawa and her "professionalism" regarding VAs...which makes me nervous about the supposed movie, especially given her health. (State of mind can sometimes effect one's scriptwriting, and Morosawa's already rumored to have an unprofessional attitude towards her work...)

[Albireo_818]

Well with people asking about rumors being confirmed or denied...

Is it true that Kira's appearance in the show was as long as "important" as it was only because the VA cried until Morisawa convinced Fukuda to write him in for a longer purpose? (IE: Taking over the protagonist role)

I've never even heard that one, although there are a lot of rumors revolving around Morosawa and her "professionalism" regarding VAs...which makes me nervous about the supposed movie, especially given her health. (State of mind can sometimes effect one's scriptwriting, and Morosawa's already rumored to have an unprofessional attitude towards her work...)

Indeed, the job was rumoured only to have been given to the writer because she was Fukuda's (wife?). There's a lot of hate going round for these two, regarding Fukuda going along with whatever she wanted, etc. I really haven't seen any definitive sources so... i can't really say.

What i do feel, however, is that statement regarding Shinn as the protagonist seems like it harkens back to the original scripting. Whether or not he thought that this would defend the storyline or not is irrelevant, because, in the end, what the viewer gets out of te story is true for them. And, while i am by no means a Kira hater, i do feel, to a certain extent, that Fukuda and Morosawa somehow ruined what remained of Shinn's respectability in relation to the viewer when the re-wrote Kira back in. And, similarly, Kira's reputation was again tarnished by his re-entrance.

It seems the latter half of Destiny was just a complete....BS fest. And, whether Fukuda is trying a psychological retcon for his own sake, or whether this is crap remains to be seen. However much Final Plus cleared things up, it still won't do Justice to Athrun, Kira and all the other cast wronged (pun intended). I just hop that Fukuda and Morosawa will work harder on the movie, after viewing the immense success of 00 and their own, for lack of a better word...failure with the latter half of Destiny.

[Antares]

Well, all I can say is that if Fukuda seriously thinks Kira & al. have strayed from the path of justice, then the movie should reflect that. I daresay it won't because it would require a considerably shift from the general setting GSD is left at. Maybe Kira needs to gas a Maius colony or something right at the start so we can go "oh, he is a bad guy". Obviously they could go for a more subtle approach too, but with the said people heading this project, I am less than convinced.

[Kuruni]

Another rumor claim Fukuda once claim Kira is like his avatar, a character who share his perspective. It much more make sense from what we saw in GSD.

[NeoStar9]

In the end I feel no matter how much Fukuda tries to spin things or even works to try and make things better in regards to the film unless they change one key and core aspect of the SEED universe things won't improve. Some might not agree but what I'm referring to is the complete one sidedness of the storytelling in regards to ZAFT, Kira's group, and everyone else. The complete demonizing to various degrees of anyone that isn't apart of Kira's and Lacus' group remains and will remain a central problem to the SEED universe if that isn't fixed.

It's part of the root cause of the problems. If there is no challenging enemy then how you can you allow a character to grow or present a side on the moral high ground or simply in the right? This is was completely lost in Destiny after the "Break the world" event (I think it was called that). I've never been a fan of ZAFT but the shows beginning clearly painted them, at least Shin and crew as "good guys" since they were attacked. What would have made that better I felt if there were Naturals on board that ship and they had at least one or two natural pilots (I guess Rey counts). However as soon as Kira and crew entered the scene once again that was lost. Logic was thrown away as well to make them fit which made things even worse.

The relationship between the factions in a show such as this sets the tone for everything and provides a framework in which to work within.

I still would like to ask those that worked on the show if there were two separate teams that worked on Destiny. The first dozen or so episodes had a drastically different quality to them then the rest of the series. Or if someone important (as an editor or story planner) left after production started.

On a different note. I felt if they wanted Kira and crew in the story they should have simply integrated the characters back into the various factions after the first war when there were new leaders and simply removed Orb from the equation. Lacus, Kira in Plant while the former EA members back in the EA. Then come together with the Minerva crew later on (ala AEUG which is made up of Federation and Zeon pilots and crewmen and leaders) to take on LOGOs (which would be made up of EA and PLANT/ZAFT members). The show might have had a better progression. This is just my feeling.

[J-Lead]

Another rumor claim Fukuda once claim Kira is like his avatar, a character who share his perspective. It much more make sense from what we saw in GSD.

That's called a self-insert, and depending on the director, it can be a huge detriment to the show, because it often leads them to have a powerful bias in favor of that character in most situations. It's a constant problem with fanfiction as well, but that's usually with an pre-established story, so nobody really gives a crap when it happens past a negative review and accusations of weeabooity.

Also, I don't like the thought of Kira being Fukada's beliefs personified into a character. It implies great philosophical immaturity on his part.

[AmuroNT1]

Don't forget the claim that, in one interview, he said Orb represented his "idealized Japan", while alternately proclaiming the EA and ZAFT (whichever was in direct opposition to the Archangel at the time) to represent "George Bush's America".

[Brave Fencer Kirby]

Well, that's not particularly surprising, is it? A collection of volcanic islands in the Pacific, with an advanced tech base but little in the way of natural resources, and a small but elite military, fighting against aggressive, imperialistic, racist superpower trying to crush them and force them under their heel? There are some very obvious parallels to post-WWII Japanese-American relations... from a nationalistic Japanese point of view.

[Phoenix012]

The problem with all of these claims that have been brought up is that none of them actually exist.

A while back I looked up every interview with Fukuda that I could find, and he didn't say any of these things that he's rumored to have said. As best as I can remember, he did in fact say that Kira had strayed from the path of justice, but that's it. As far as I can tell, all this other stuff people keep bringing up that they've heard is garbage.

I invite anyone to prove that he's said any of these things. This isn't a challenge, I'm just tired of seeing people say someone said this or that without a source to back it up.

Don't get me wrong, I think Fukuda deserves a lot of criticism for the way he's handled the two series. However putting words in someone's mouth or just plain making crap up is completely unfair. It also happens all too often on the internet.

[SNT1]

This thread reads like a newstand tabloid about anime.

[Yuusha Tokkyu Might Gaine]

This thread reads like a newstand tabloid about anime.

Though this thread did teach us a valuable lesson...

Fuduka is full of BS.

[Red Zaku]

Don't forget the claim that, in one interview, he said Orb represented his "idealized Japan", while alternately proclaiming the EA and ZAFT (whichever was in direct opposition to the Archangel at the time) to represent "George Bush's America".

That interview is actually on Gunota Headlines about three quarters of the way down the page.

http://aeug.blogspot.com/search?q=Fukuda

Q: The meaning of the neutral country Orb?
A: That's just an ideal. Japan that is. However, they weren't occupied. Think about it, in order to be ruled you need massive military power and that's troublesome.


And the interview where Fukuda said Kira and Company strayed from the path of Justice some of it was posted on Gamefaqs. Newtypes3 copied the posts made by homeless and Vitalemon and sent me what he'd gotten. So here is that interview.


"Another GSD Interview~ *Spoilers*
From: The Homeless Guy | Posted: 11/14/2005 12:17:46 AM | Message Detail
From the December 2005 issue of Animage.

Not the full interview, but the parts the translator found interesting. if anyone has the full version, it'd be appreciated.

Also, I used the other part of the director's name, so it'd avoid the auto-flag. >_>; (Mitsuo Fukuda)

- How was the Shinn character created?

Mitsuo: Morosawa seems to want to make him a pure youngster. Kira seemed to be an ordinary youngster at first, but he was actually not ordinary at all. Athrun is a soldier, and the son to PLANT's leader. So I want to copy the realistic aspects of today's youngsters if possible.

- Shinn seems to have realized that he's wrong during the final confrontation against Athrun, have you ever thought of the possibility that he may go to Kira's side?

Mitsuo: I have absolutely no such intention right from the start, because I always want to create a story where in the end Shinn loses everything except Lunamaria. I hope people don't misunderstand it, I don't think Shinn is incorrect (unjust? wrong?) at all. What Shinn and Dullindal have done are all for the good of the world, on the other hand Kira's side is the one which has somewhat deviated from the path of justice.

- But isn't that (Dullindal's world) a world unable to evolve according to Kira?

Mitsuo: yes, I think Dulldinal is pessimistic (holds no hope?) for mankind. Just like what Kira and Lacus said, the world is full of wars and conflicts, no one can give a clear answer to what the future will be like. Mankind can never stop wars and conflicts, the nature of war cannot be changed. So the basic structure of the world needs to be changed to erase wars from the human world. For Dullindal that's the path of salvation for mankind. He does not want to control the world out of his own desires, so he's not evil in this sense. Even if someone opposes him and says that kind of world will be unable to evolve, he can still counter that if we just leave mankind alone wars will never disappear.

- Lastly, last month Morosawa said the love between Athrun and Cagalli is a misunderstanding, which leads to great reactions. What's the Director's take on this?

Mitsuo: My take is the same as Morosawa's. If Cagalli chooses between her country and her lover, she will definitely choose her country, and Athrun has not reached to a position high enough to protect both Cagalli and her country. So based on their current positions, their relationship can't hold up.

- So the feelings between them up to now is not love?

Mitsuo: Instead of love, it's more like the feelings between war comrades. Although they blushed while kissing, that's because of shyness and confusion, not mature feeling of love."

Continued next post.

---------------------------------------------------------

"From: VitaLemon | Posted: 11/14/2005 1:38:38 AM |
- First i would like to ask you how do you feel about the ending?

Mitsuo: I said it a few times , it was very difficult in the end.In the previous series , i have to write about so many characters. And in this series , i have to link the previous cast along with the present cast in the same world.Also because i want the story to continue , so i ambitiously added new elements(characters), thats why making the 2 elements(characters) merging is such a difficult thing.

- What do you mean that moving the characters was hard?

Mitsuo: In the previous series , the cast was viewed throughout the entire year.For the audience they are familiar to them but to the new cast they(audience) knows nothing about them. So thats why its hard to write about 2 characters that has different starting points.

- You put the new character Shin Asuka as the main character.For a director , how do you view him?

Mitsuo: In the beginning , he is a hard to see through character. Kira is a warrior with saddened eyes , Asuran is a confused and lost warrior.And then Shin reached the hatred filled warrior role. The 3 of them takes different actions to solve problems , thats why Shin , Asuran and Kira will have no similarities. I think thats why Morosawa has a hard time on.

- Miss Morosawa once said that children these days are confused about the information given to them.

Mitsuo: I have thought of that too. Because they don't understand their own situation and when they are fed with a large amount of information , they get confused and used.Also will confuse other people's wishes as their own.I think Shin is this type of character.

- Do you think this Shin learn about his situation in the last episode?

Mitsuo: Althought i don't know what went wrong , but in the last episode Shin has a reached a state of no-return. Although Shin keeps on saying "He is protecting others" to fight. But i think he is actually the person who needs to be protected. Thats why Lunamaria took him in. Because he wants to be protected , thats why he keeps on saying he want to protect others.

- So Shin always kept his own feelings inside his heart?

Mitsuo: Yes because he never met anyone who can lead him his true path. Shin is quite sad(as in other people pitying him).

I'll translate others later on , i skipped the ones that homeless already posted."

Continued again.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

"From: VitaLemon | Posted: 11/14/2005 1:54:38 AM |
Or maybe Kira is the one who diverged from the path of rightiousness.

- You said Kira could be the one that strayed from the path of rightiousness , what do you mean?

Mitsuo: Purely said , If Dullindial's world can truely satisfy the world. Because testing your genes , we can know your personality up to your physical traits , so we Dullindial's world everyone will be a part of it. In Dullindial's world , the so call "unneeded" people are probably the ones who goes against the mass.

- The so call Dullindial's despair , i think it can be seen in the last episode where he saw everything he worked so hard upon , but in the end he accepted his death.

Mitsuo: For him , if his plan is ruin , the world heads towards a path of destruction...it doesn't matter. In this sense , i think he has a very open sense of the world.When he knew Rey was the one who shot him , the words he was thinking is probably "So this is also destiny...?"

- Feels like its because he is despaired so he rather has a open mind instead. I want to know how you feel when Rey shot Dullindial.

Mitsuo: I wanted Rey to have a control of the world's destiny. Same as Rau Le Creuset. In a sense , Rey is the biggest victim.I wanted to write about he has to choose Kira's world(future) or Dullindial's world(future).

- And so he chosed Kira's world(Future)

Mitsuo: Of course he wants a future with a tomorrow...when he himself doesn't have a tomorrow , thats why he wanted to give other people a tomorrow.

And thats the end of the stuff in the interview."

End of the Interview.

[mcred23]

Phoenix012 brings up I point I almost did myself: How many of these 'rumors' have any basis at all? Some of them, such as the thing about Morisawa and some of the VA's not getting along, seem to be second-hand rumors (Somebody-heard-that-somebody-found-out-about-it sort of thing, and please correct me if I am wrong on that or anything else in this post), and some of the quotes seem to come from interviews that may not actually exsist.

While I know there is probably some degree of truth to a lot of this, I can't help but be reminded of the many 'quotes' attributed to Yoshiyuki Tomino I've seen over the years that are totally BS, and I wouldn't be suprised if at least one or two of Fukuda's turned out to be as well. It would probably be best for people to post the interviews that the quotes or comments they're interested in come from (Or links to them, to avoid a bunch of overly long posts), if only to confirm that Fukuda (Or whomever, if it's someone else from the production staff) actually said them at some point...