Giant Robots and Gender

[Vent Noir]

Found this essay, and wondering what the people here think:

http://girl-wonder.org/trouble/?p=13

[Gundam Genki]

Firstly, I think the writer of that article is over-analysing a little bit. Most of these shows where, like she says herself aimed at young males. You can fall outside the target audience and still like it, but the show was SPECIFICALLY made for the target audience.

Secondly, where the western countries had quite a bit of female emancipation, Japan has a much longer way to go on that point. Gender differentiation is different in Japan. And not only is it different in Japan, even here 'in the west' it's unusual to find female tank crews or female fighter pilots. There are examples, but it is not common. So it's not really unexpected.

I would personally love to see characters such as Karen from Code Geass more often. She can and does kick ass when necessary. She is actually useful, regardless of her gender. Unlike some Gundam girls. With Four Murasame being the most idiotic example. What general in his or her right mind would put a psychotic scared woman behaving like a 4-year old in the seat of such a powerful weapon?

It's not necessarily that I want to see women kick ass on screen, it's more that I like to see them perform their jobs in the same way as their male colleagues do, as in the real world. But that's the japanese gender differentiation. You won't see male nurses in anime for example (is there an English word for 'male nurse' anyway, or is the word nurse applicable for both males and females?).

I don't think it's worth putting too much energy into. It's just a difference of culture I guess...

[RedBlitz]

(is there an English word for 'male nurse' anyway, or is the word nurse applicable for both males and females?).

It's called a male nurse or just a nurse.

[Gadget]

Firstly, I think the writer of that article is over-analysing a little bit. Most of these shows where, like she says herself aimed at young males. You can fall outside the target audience and still like it, but the show was SPECIFICALLY made for the target audience.

I was told that Gundam -W was trying to get some girl audience. Afterall, if you stripe the G-boys of their war machines, hack, they could form a boy band. In fact, I always suspect that the G-boys were models after some boy bands like Take That or N'Syn or Backstreet Boys.

What was not mentioned was in Duel: Parallel adventures, it's a boy that pilot a girl looking robot. Come on, a robot with high heels. And they did a theory only why man were block from piloting these alien machines.

BTY, I always wonder why Kira did not use the pink PSA on the Strike Rouge. Too girly?

[Albireo_818]

Yeah. The points were valid, but too generalised and stereotyped.
The Fafners, from FAFNER, were very gender-neutral. As were Gasaraki's mechs. Two of the greatest mecha anime's of recent times, both with neutral mechs.

And Prime had some women in his army.... she's forgetting the motorbike girl.

[Dark Duel]

And Prime had some women in his army.... she's forgetting the motorbike girl.

Arcee, I believe her name was. Not sure, as I never watched G1.

I actually think that really, REALLY skilled female pilots are often somewhat underappreciated - take characters like Kallen, like Naomi Fluegel or Canon Memphis, or to use examples from Gundam, like Emma Sheen or Haman Karn.
All too often they're relegated to secondary character roles, and I actually think it's great that Code Geass, for one, is focusing on Kallen as much as it is, though I would like to see her get a little more character development.

[Black Knight]

I find it interesting that the author is familiar enough with Patlabor to admit that it was still successful when other mecha shows were in decline, but otherwise failed to address the interesting issue of the TV show's main character being a female, and that the majority of the better pilots in the show were female. Of course, this may not have anything to do with the show being attractive to females, or showing much of a feminine aspect to the show (most of the female characters out-man the males, after all).

Of course, most of the Labors still fall into the "boxy = masculine" motiff that the author put forth with the discussion on Z Gundam's designs, but such machines as the Griffon, Graubear and Brocken are quite curvy without being the least bit feminine (I've often though that the Brocken rather resembled the Quebeley, in fact).

[toysdream]

Good article, I think, and I can't fault the research. When the author mentioned the Qubeley, my immediate thought was "Well, maybe that's a Nagano thing," and the article then followed that exact train of thought.

The Patlabor example actually suggests another way of depicting the pilot/robot relationship - as a partnership rather than a fusion. In the case of Patlabor, "Alphonse" is named after the heroine's (male) dog, suggesting that she views the robot as a kind of pet rather than as an extension of her own body or a superheroic alter ego. This is also the case in Brainpowered, for example, but it's definitely the exception rather than the rule.

-- Mark

[Ascension]

And Prime had some women in his army.... she's forgetting the motorbike girl.

Arcee, I believe her name was. Not sure, as I never watched G1.

There have actually been a number of female Transformers over the decades, but veeeeeeeery few of them have been major characters. Here's a list. And here's an article on the treatment of female Transformers in various continuities.

Yeah, I'm a Transfan too. I'm not very picky about my giant robots.

About the subject of the article... Yes, it's generally true, and I don't think we'll see anything like an industry-wide shift away from gendering unless there's a massively successful show in which a female protagonist pilots an overtly "masculine" machine or a male protagonist pilots an overtly "feminine" machine, and even then the change would be less a revolutionary shift in gender politics and more an exercise in follow-the-leader-and-hope-to-cash-in.

Also, while I did find it odd that no man piloted a Qubeley, the not-exactly-a-girl Carris Nautilus pilots the almost-Qubeley Bertigo in X. At least that's something.

In closing, I just want to say that I would pay to see a series in which a super macho dude signs up for the super macho mecha corps only to end up being forced to pilot a Nobel-esque girlymech.

[flamingtroll]

The immediate example where a macho main guy pilots a girly robot would probably be Dolores from ZOE.

[Vent Noir]

Regarding the "Boxy = Masculine, curvy = feminine" paradigm... the Strains from Soukou no Strain always felt feminine to me, even though they weren't overtly female-shaped. After reading that I understood why.

Of course, Soukou no Strain only has three significant male pilots.

[Koshernova]

Hey everyone. I'm happy to see you enjoyed my article (for yes that is me!). You can see why I'd have done proper research, after all, I am a huge fan of these shows

Many of you have pointed out I don't focus on the characters. This was intentional. I think there is a LOT to say about gender in giant robot anime, comparatively as well as within specific franchises. But crucially, that would have taken the article in a tangent I didn't want to take it to. I was mostly focusing on the aesthetics of giant robots, and how these may relate to their symbolism (as well as how prevailing they are in Japanese science fiction).

And yeah, like people point out, there were VERY few female TFs, and most of them were quite unimportant. Probably the most developed female TF in all continuities is Blackarachnia, who sparked the writing of the article in the first place! Arcee (who is a car, not a bike!) is a comparatively minor character. Plus she only shows up for season 3 of the original series: Optimus's army had no female TFs in it (except in a flashback).

But as we say in Sociology, it's not about absolutes. It's about tendencies. The TFs have a heavy tendency to be 99% male.

To finish, I want to apologise for not covering shows like Gasaraki and such, or more recent stuff like Geass. I just don't keep up as much as I should (anime is expensive!). With Geass though, I didn't see any fundamental shift in the design paradigm that would warrant a mention (the mecha design, while really cool, is to me very similar to what I've already seen in Nadesico and Escaflowne).

[Antares]

Well written Kosh, you bring up many interesting points to discuss in your piece. For example in GS, aside from the girly boys, there weren't any female pilots to discuss (Cagalli did get a pink Gundam, "the Rouge" and the Astray girls were basically fodder). The idea, the "tendency", is definitely there, although it is possible to stretch it too far, too.

Well it definitely is an interesting field to study. I remember writing about GiTS and Donna Haraway's A Cyborg Manifesto back in the day for a Lit Met class (in GiTS: Innocence, there was a cyborg-scientist named Haraway, which I found funny enough to mention in the paper). And other series like LoGH veritably beg to be turned into academic papers.

[Albireo_818]

Congrats, one well written article, i must say, Kosh!

Antares, i must agree with you there. Gundam, as already stated, has a more "male" feel to the show. However, that all goes back to the ancient idea of Male=Intimidating, Femme=Comforting. And, i guess, on the battlefield, you want to intimidate your enemies, not reassure them.