Question about Char's Counterattack

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Question about Char's Counterattack

Post by Arbiter GUNDAM » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:27 am

Why did Tomino decide not to have Kamille in CCA? And if he had been in it, what would his role have been? I can't remember if Kamille was still amnesiac at the end of ZZ or not...
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Post by Wingnut » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:33 am

Like Kira stealing the show in Destiny from Shinn, Camille would have done the same thing to Amuro and Char.
Plus, even at full health, I doubt that Camille would have wanted anything to do with fighting any more, especially if it involves mobile suits.
In short, there's no point to having Camille show up in CCA in anything other than perhaps a non-speaking cameo role that hints at what he has been up to, and even that is not needed as we see exactly that at the end of ZZ.
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Post by Chris » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:51 am

Although we see Kamille running on a beach with Fa at the end of ZZ, we don't know the extent of his recovery (or lack thereof). Even if he was mostly back to normal, I imagine he'd have to be traumatized from all the things he experienced in Zeta, let alone what Scirocco did to him. Also, Kamille's fight was against the Titans and later the first Neo Zeon - both of which are gone by CCA. I've seen lots of people say that if Kamille were in CCA, he'd take Gyunei's place, but I think that's dead wrong. Kamille makes it very clear in the last episode of Zeta that the people whose souls are weighed down by gravity are wrong, but he doesn't agree with dominating them the way Scirocco intended. There's no way he would join Char's Neo Zeon, and if he were to fight, it would be with Londo Bell. I think the more important question is why Sayla isn't in the movie making an attempt to stop her brother.
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Post by Mark064 » Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:29 am

Didn't Sayla decide long ago there was nothing she could do about her brother and his actions? I'm sure Sayla is smart enough to realize there isn't a single thing she can do in the end that would change his mind. I think she said something about this at the end of ZZ Gundam...

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Post by RedBlitz » Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:36 am

Yeah I think she said something like that.

But if your psycho brother was trying to destroy the world.... doesnt it make sense to at least TRY and talk him out of it!? lol
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Post by Arbiter GUNDAM » Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:44 am

Actually I just thought of something else. Why didn't they have Judau Ashta in the movie either? I know CCA is supposed to be the final resolution between Char and Amuro, but it also closes out an entire arc in the history of UC, so why did only some characters from MSG make an appearance? Not even Fraw was in it as I recall...
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Post by RedBlitz » Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:36 am

Maybe that Judau and Kamille just retired from fighting you cant blame them. Kamille might be ok by this point but I doubt he ever wants to fight again also was the ZZ Gundam still in one piece at that point or was it destroyed? Im not sure if it was destroyed since I didnt see the end of ZZ Gundam.

I like to think that both Kamile and Judau were in the many mobile suits trying to push back Axis and in the end made it out safe.
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Post by NastyNate » Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:43 am

Hey, for all we know japan might release an ova about kamille and the zz gundam pilot and we could see what happens to them in their future lives.
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Post by turkishproverb » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:56 pm

You know, I always thought that would've been a fun prequal/side story. Brief Clips of CHar and Amuro going around to check on potential allies who turn them down (or not) Like Kamille, whom would probably flatly refuse because of the combination of mixed loyalties and trauma.
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Post by mcred23 » Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:06 pm

MBF-06/ZGMF-X12A Arbiter wrote:Why didn't they have Judau Ashta in the movie either?
Because at the end of ZZ he went off to Jupiter, which has a one way trip of just over 32 months, so he was way seperated from events around Earth.
RedBlitz wrote:Kamille might be ok by this point but I doubt he ever wants to fight again
I think the explination that he was done with fighting was also given (Or hinted at) in ZZ.
RedBlitz wrote:also was the ZZ Gundam still in one piece at that point or was it destroyed?
It was destroyed in the last episode of ZZ.
RedBlitz wrote:I like to think that both Kamile and Judau were in the many mobile suits trying to push back Axis and in the end made it out safe.
Nice thought, if totally impossible for it to have actually happened. 8)
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Post by Arsarcana » Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:09 pm

NastyNate wrote:Hey, for all we know japan might release an ova about kamille and the zz gundam pilot and we could see what happens to them in their future lives.
Gundam Evolve, Crossbone Gundam: Skull Heart and the Victory side-story all have something in common: They do just this for Judau. Evolve takes place a few years after ZZ and show him doing some sort of deep space work but I can't recall what it is, the other two occur years later and show him as an old man with a collection of Franken mobile suits. I'm told it ends with him leaving the solar system with a bunch of Newtype children but I've never been able to find the manga myself.

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Post by Wingnut » Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:10 pm

MBF-06/ZGMF-X12A Arbiter wrote:Actually I just thought of something else. Why didn't they have Judau Ashta in the movie either?
He's still way out at Jupiter with Roux. I doubt he even knew of the conflict until after it was all over anyway. And even if he did know about it as quickly as the rest of the Earth Sphere did, there would not be enough time for him to get back to Earth anyway before it ended.
Why people keep forgetting this fact is beyond me at times.
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Post by Mark064 » Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:11 pm

mcred23 wrote:
RedBlitz wrote:also was the ZZ Gundam still in one piece at that point or was it destroyed?
It was destroyed in the last episode of ZZ.
No the ZZ Gundam wasn't destroyed in the last episode of ZZ Gundam. The Core Base was destroyed, the rest was damaged. If you watch the Gundam Evolve featuring ZZ Gundam you see Judau still using the ZZ Gundam with a new type of Core Base, of course at the end as a birthday present Judau recieves a replacement Core Base.
mcred23 wrote:
RedBlitz wrote:Kamille might be ok by this point but I doubt he ever wants to fight again
I think the explination that he was done with fighting was also given (Or hinted at) in ZZ.
I'm really not picking on you but... There was never any explination I think maybe Fa said something like that but that's Fa. Kamille on the other hand we see wanting to actually go out and fight despite his condition, of course he gets stopped by Bright and Fa. In the end I'm finding it hard to believe that Kamille is so traumatized from fighting. Though he probably is done from fighting, he wasn't a real soldier part of the army anyways.
Arsarcana wrote:Gundam Evolve, Crossbone Gundam: Skull Heart and the Victory side-story all have something in common: They do just this for Judau. Evolve takes place a few years after ZZ and show him doing some sort of deep space work but I can't recall what it is, the other two occur years later and show him as an old man with a collection of Franken mobile suits. I'm told it ends with him leaving the solar system with a bunch of Newtype children but I've never been able to find the manga myself.
That's the basic idea of the Victory Gundam Side Story, though I can't remember at the moment exactly who he left with. From what I remember they use a colony for method and reach Alpha Centauri or something at some far off year. I'll have to check when I get home for more details.

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Post by valkyriepilot » Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:58 am

Mark064 wrote:
mcred23 wrote:
RedBlitz wrote:also was the ZZ Gundam still in one piece at that point or was it destroyed?
It was destroyed in the last episode of ZZ.
No the ZZ Gundam wasn't destroyed in the last episode of ZZ Gundam. The Core Base was destroyed, the rest was damaged. If you watch the Gundam Evolve featuring ZZ Gundam you see Judau still using the ZZ Gundam with a new type of Core Base, of course at the end as a birthday present Judau recieves a replacement Core Base.
Arsarcana wrote:Gundam Evolve, Crossbone Gundam: Skull Heart and the Victory side-story all have something in common: They do just this for Judau. Evolve takes place a few years after ZZ and show him doing some sort of deep space work but I can't recall what it is, the other two occur years later and show him as an old man with a collection of Franken mobile suits. I'm told it ends with him leaving the solar system with a bunch of Newtype children but I've never been able to find the manga myself.
EDIT: well parts of the ZZ (particularly the head) seems to have survived and became part of the mecha named Gump (from the Crossbone Skull Heart and V-Gundam side story manga), which is listed by MAHQ as being owned by Grey Stokes (together with other odd mecha) who is also identified as Judau himself...

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Post by Mark064 » Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:24 am

I have never seen Grey Stoke actually identified as Judau Ashta. From what I remember the name Judau Ashta never appears once in Crossbone Skull Heart or the Victory Gundam Side Story manga, let alone him being identified as such. Even his profile in G Generation G-Spirits does not make any mention of such. Of course there is enough information seemlingly to identify him as such, including his voice actor in G-Spirts being Kazuki Yao, but he never directly is.

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Post by valkyriepilot » Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:55 am

Mark064 wrote:I have never seen Grey Stoke actually identified as Judau Ashta. From what I remember the name Judau Ashta never appears once in Crossbone Skull Heart or the Victory Gundam Side Story manga, let alone him being identified as such. Even his profile in G Generation G-Spirits does not make any mention of such. Of course there is enough information seemlingly to identify him as such, including his voice actor in G-Spirts being Kazuki Yao, but he never directly is.
sorry about that, i just based my observation from what MAHQ lists.

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Post by Kavik Ryx » Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:33 am

I think I read somewhere that in one of the second universal century manga, Camille and Fa have a short cameo. While seeing him in a cameo would have made that movie an extra spice, it is obvious that he would want to stay away from any conflict. Even in Zeta Gundam, it is obvious that he even hates the AEUG to a degree. He joined on his own free will, and I would bet that he would stay out on his own free will. It's just a little annoying that they couldn't just have like a three second shot of him watching the battle from Earth or something.

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Post by Mendou » Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:45 am

The film focused on the rivallry between Amuro and Char, not Kamille and the events of Zeta and ZZ Gundam.

It wouldn't make sense including him.

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Re: Question about Char's Counterattack

Post by Zangetsu » Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:55 am

I've thought about this too, but often wondered why more UC characters weren't in the closing instead of those random (as far as I know) people looking apon Axis. You know like short scences of other characters gazing from Earth, the Colonies, or Jupiter in Judah's case.
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Post by Oruma » Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:59 pm

Honestly though, if we go on with a Z:A new translation timeline, I would LOVE to see a CCA with Judau as the "hot shot Londo Bell pilot" before Amuro comes aboard, and Kamille helping Char...
then it'd be an all-star cast of Amuro + Judau VS Char + Kamille :roll:
Wouldn't that be fun? :lol:
Kavik Ryx wrote:I think I read somewhere that in one of the second universal century manga, Camille and Fa have a short cameo. While seeing him in a cameo would have made that movie an extra spice, it is obvious that he would want to stay away from any conflict. Even in Zeta Gundam, it is obvious that he even hates the AEUG to a degree. He joined on his own free will, and I would bet that he would stay out on his own free will. It's just a little annoying that they couldn't just have like a three second shot of him watching the battle from Earth or something.
If you're talking about a non-canonical manga, that may be Moon Crisis, set in UC0099.
Its Kamille/Fa cameo is this: during the power outage and subsequent evacuation of a Lunar city, Kamille refused Fa's plea to escape, instead deciding to stay behind and treat the injured.
(it also has a Judau cameo at the end of the manga. The Judau look-alike returned from Jupiter to find Earth & Spacenoids being cosy and wonders what he missed :D )
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