Macross/Robotech

[Apache]

What the difference? I remember watching robotech when it aired in the us, and I wanted to know what the difference between the two series are. I tried looking it up on wikipedia but it kinda confuses me more.

[Recon 5]

Robotech is basically what we got when Harmony Gold took 3 series:

1. Macross
2. Southern Cross
3. Genesis Climber Mospeada (my fave)

and had Carl Macekre(I think thats his name) do a chop- chop- paste number on them, animation and storywise.

Clear?

[Hyakushiki]

Super Dimension Fortress Macross is a separate TV series that was combined into what became Robotech. When Carl Macek and Harmony Gold attempted to get Macroos on the air in syndication in the US, it was deemed too short for syndication at 26 episodes long. So they purchased the licencing rights to two other shows, Super Dimension Calvary Southern Cross and Genesis Climber Mospeda, then with some editing he made three shows into one become Robotech.

The differences between the two versions are some character names were changed, and certain plot points were altered, for example in Robotech's Macross saga, the SDF-1 was a ship created by Zor to escape the Robotech Masters with his followers and Zentradi came to claim it before they did, while in Macross it's simply a gunboat one of many belonging to the Zentradi fleet part of which came to Earth to find it after it went missing.

[MrMarch]

I'll try to post it as simply but as detailed as necessary so as to avoid confusing you. But I honestly think the wikipedia has it explained quite well. Anyway, here goes:

I'm going to assume you already know the following, but just to keep it straight:

Super Dimension Fortress Macross was edited and became Robotech The Macross Saga in the United States.
Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross was edited and became Robotech Master in the United States.
Genesis Climber Mospeada was edited and became Robotech The New Generation in the United States.

In order to combine three unrelated shows together and have it all make sense, it was necessary to change the meaning of dialogue, change the reason for events and insert footage from the later two shows into Super Dimension Fortress Macross. This would link the show, in it's form Robotech the Macross Saga, to the other two stories that would be told in the other two series. In addition to these narrative edits, the release of a Japanese show in the United States prompted some production editing as well. Character names where changed to more familiar English sounding names and various elements of nudity, violence and scenes too mature for western children's audiences were edited out of Super Dimension Fortress Macross. To go through a list of all the various edits would be a lengthy process, but I'm going to assume this is enough to answer your question.

Now, I'm going to jump ahead here and anticipate your next questions because experience has taught me they almost always follow. So please forgive me if this doesn't apply to you:

Question: Why were these edits made and why are these shows supposedly unrelated yet they all have transforming fighter jets?

Answer: Everything started with a japanese anime series called Super Dimension Fortress Macross released in Japan in 1982. The show was a huge success and spawned numerous other anime shows in Japan, shows that also featured transforming mecha because the concept was so popular with kids. Some of these shows were Super Dimension Century Orguss, shows that would use certain parts of the Super Dimension Fortress Macross title to increase sales of their own show through familiarity with a more popular one. But ultimately, these subsequent shows had nothing to do with Macross other than being transforming robot shows.

A few years after the release of SDF Macross in 1982, a fella named Carl Macek and his company Harmony Gold really liked the show Super Dimension Fortress Macross and wanted to bring it over to television in the United States. Syndication rules for U.S. television at the time demanded any show have a certain number of episodes, which SDF Macross did not have (being only 36 episodes in length). Carl Macek came upon a solution to combine Super Dimension Fortress Macross with two other shows in the same transforming mecha genre to meet the minimum episode count required. He edited Super Dimension Fortress Macross into Robotech The Macross Saga, combining footage from Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross and a third show called Genesis Climber Mospeada. these added two shows had nothing to do with the Macross franchise, but they did feature transforming robots, again, because it was a very popular theme at the time.

Robotech was released and the rest is history, fortunate and unfortunate as it is.

[Apache]

kthx, I just didnt get how 3 completely unrelated shows could be grouped together. I thought they all followed the same story line, I didnt see how the plot could be the same, along with the mechs and alien races. Thanks for clearing that up guys.

[Koshernova]

Well, they aren't. Robotech is simply quite cleverly edited (if one doesn't look too closely). Notice you never see a giant Zentraedi next to an Invid or to a Robotech Master. In fact, no character from a series is ever shown around the characters from the other, they're always "off-screen". The only exception is Dana Sterling, but she obviously looks quite different from her parents in Southern Cross, since she's originally a different character.

[MrMarch]

Exactly. If you look at the shows objectively you can clearly see the three sagas are not linked at all despite the effort to try and do so. The production design, the stories, the characters, the themes, everything is different aside from being transforming anime robot shows. Plus the obvious drop in quality from the first story compared to the other two is a big hint.

[Skippy438]

Not to mention that Southern Cross didn't even take place on Earth, but on a planet with 2 moons.

[Koshernova]

Exactly. If you look at the shows objectively you can clearly see the three sagas are not linked at all despite the effort to try and do so. The production design, the stories, the characters, the themes, everything is different aside from being transforming anime robot shows. Plus the obvious drop in quality from the first story compared to the other two is a big hint.

While I haven't watched all of the original version of Mospeada, I have to say that visually the show is stunning. The character and mechanical design is quite original. Even the Legioss, despite its obvious inspiration from the Valkyrie, is a very unique mecha.

[Recon 5]

I'd love to see the Armo Bomber/ Beta Veritech again. I can't imagine why that design hasn't reappeared in any other series outside Mospeada. Raw cool, and raw power.

[OpMegs]

I'd love to see the Armo Bomber/ Beta Veritech again. I can't imagine why that design hasn't reappeared in any other series outside Mospeada. Raw cool, and raw power.

Well, the Beta was used rather commonly in Robotech: The Shadow Chronicles, if not as a seperate mecha all that often, primarily attached to Alphas. There was, however, reasoning for this at several points. Personally I would've loved to see the Beta in battroid mode in the movie, but ah well. Maybe the sequel.

[VF5SS]

Mospeada is like the cheesey ripoff of Macross. It's episodic to a fault sometimes and somewhat painfully formulaic early on. Also Stick is a real asshole. I do agree that the designs are nice and are some of Shinji Aramaki's best work.

[codename:v]

Macross is an example of how animes from Japan got americanised by fanboy companies like Harmony Gold, which later turned into a deviated franchise as we know today-Robotech. Other notable americanised+pirated products are Sabrerider & the Star Sheriff(Bismarck) and Voltron series(Golion & DairuggerXV), where deaths and killing scenes are removed based on grounds that deaths and killings aren't allowed on american TV, but unfortunately guns are still easily available everywhere...

[OpMegs]

Macross is an example of how animes from Japan got americanised by fanboy companies like Harmony Gold, which later turned into a deviated franchise as we know today-Robotech. Other notable americanised+pirated products are Sabrerider & the Star Sheriff(Bismarck) and Voltron series(Golion & DairuggerXV), where deaths and killing scenes are removed based on grounds that deaths and killings aren't allowed on american TV, but unfortunately guns are still easily available everywhere...

What's interesting is that Robotech fandom is both cognizant of the inherent oddity of Robotech's origins and accepting of it. There's been anything from attempts to work in the other Macross series in a Robotech context(Invid vs. VF-21s?) to noting the fact that Macross Zero actually works a lot better with Robotech's time frame than Macross's(due to subtle differences in their backstory).

Honestly, most Robotech fans are as irritated as Macross fans that the little Harmony Gold/Whoever's Running Macross Lately feud is keeping those things from reaching stateside because they like it as well. Which always amuses me from the whole "Macross vs. Robotech" debate.

[Leroy Landers]

I've known a hardcore Robotech fan for many years and he has gained an immense hatred for Harmony Gold over the years frequently complaining that they do little to nothing in order to promote the franchise, I know where he's coming from since HG doesn't seem to know how to market their product it's almost as bad if not worse than Bandai when it comes to Gundam, a 90 minute movie every four years? When the fanbase seems to be clamoring for a full length show.

[VF5SS]

There's been anything from attempts to work in the other Macross series in a Robotech context(Invid vs. VF-21s?) to noting the fact that Macross Zero actually works a lot better with Robotech's time frame than Macross's(due to subtle differences in their backstory).

Fanfic can do wonders.

[Koshernova]

Macross is an example of how animes from Japan got americanised by fanboy companies like Harmony Gold, which later turned into a deviated franchise as we know today-Robotech. Other notable americanised+pirated products are Sabrerider & the Star Sheriff(Bismarck) and Voltron series(Golion & DairuggerXV), where deaths and killing scenes are removed based on grounds that deaths and killings aren't allowed on american TV, but unfortunately guns are still easily available everywhere...

I don't remember Roy Fokker's or Ben Dixon's death being removed... or most of humanity being massacred being removed. Do you?

For me, Robotech is perfectly acceptable, because it showed a mass audience outside Japan that you could have adult themes in animation, alongside interesting characters and great mechanical designs. Yes, it's not perfect. But I don't see the need to hate Harmony Gold, who after all made us all aware of these shows well before we would've ever heard of them. In fact, they did much to popularise Robotech back in the day, and more than a few anime fans got into it that way.

I prefer to keep my appreciation of the shows separate. Of course, nowadays I find Macross on its own is simply much better written. But I wouldn't in a million years dismiss Robotech.

[valkyriepilot]

Truth of the matter is, for many of us, Robotech was our introduction into (or one of at least) to animelandia. Call Macek a script/story butcher or what, but the fact remains that given the resources and time available to him at that time, he has managed to somehow coherently put together a very good story. I agree with Kosh, Macross on it's own nowadays may have an edge, but Robotech will always be around.

[Koshernova]

I am not interested in watching new Robotech material, but you have to admit we could have done a LOT worse than HG's edit. They kept death and mass extermination in, as well as adult science fiction themes in, where they could've just rewritten all of it.

In fact, if you watch the Robotech version of Macross, you'll see that a lot of the original dialogue is left intact. No idea about the others, but there are many crucial scenes that had the dialogue translated and not changed in the slightest. So yes, there's edits, but there was a very strong attempt to keep the tone as close to the original as possible, at least where Macross is concerned.

[codename:v]

Kosh, that's called cheating...
Although Robotech maybe the first thing to bring mecha animes into US, which later created mecha animes awareness. Then again, it's a lame excuse for Harmony Gold to continue that franchise with the same old things from Mospeada(Invid wars)
Let's face it, the Robotech we watched back then was 20 years ago. Isn't it high time for Robotech to have it's own line of mechs, characters and scripts? How long do Robotech has to keep using the same old mechs from Mospeada? Why we were taught or told to support originals and hate pirateds? Isn't the Robotech franchise hypocritical?