Will ZZ Gundam ever be dub and released in America?

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MV6000 the Ace Zeon Pilot
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Post by MV6000 the Ace Zeon Pilot » Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:02 am

Imperial wrote:
MV6000 the Ace Zeon Pilot wrote:Why did Cartoon Network censored Gundam SEED?

Maybe if they didnt do that it would have gotten better ratings
Honestly, I don't think it hurt the show all that much. Yes, it was silly and we fans had a good time heckling, but I doubt a significant number of people tuned in, only to stop watching once the Disco Guns popped up.

SEED's lackluster performance likely came from the sudden shift to a different time slot without warning. Casual viewers probably didn't watch the show religiously like some fans, so they didn't go out of their way to track it down. With those viewers gone, ratings tanked.

Why did Cartoon Network change the timeslot?
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Post by Mark064 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:04 am

Ok first a general comment. This is not Sunrise pushing Gundam it's Bandai. Bandai Visual's picking up of MS IGLOO is different then Bandai Entertainment picking up SEED Destiny.
MV6000 the Ace Zeon Pilot wrote:so basicly you are saying it is all Cartoon Networks fault.....
I don't think we can say it's Cartoon Network's fault, it makes about as much sense as blaming everyone who didn't watch Gundam on TV. Cartoon Network is doing nothing without reason. Cartoon Network is nothing but another group out trying to make money. Their money comes from ratings and things like that. If you were in charge of Cartoon Network can you honestly say you'd air a show like Gundam again when it has a history of poor ratings? Why air Gundam when you can air more profitable series A?

Other then that I think most people can agree that a TV airing would greatly help a Gundam series but you have to remember that TV airing does not mean instant success. The following series have virtually no chance with a TV airing: Turn A, ZZ Gundam and Victory Gundam. In order for Gundam to get a serious relaunch they have a lot of work ahead for them and not just slapping on the latest Gundam seires on TV.

On the note of SEED it's said that it's DVD sales were pretty good, SEED Destiny's were good too but worse then SEEDs.
Last edited by Mark064 on Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:38 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by Leroy Landers » Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:07 am

Does anyone have any data on how well UC did in the states toy wise? I agree that CN not airing MSG and SEED in its entirety is what hurt the franchise the most. What needs to happen for Gundam to come back is that someone should air 00 when it's available, in order for that to happen CN has to reverse its "No more Gundams!" policy the same goes for retail stores.

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Post by Quiddity » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:55 pm

I don't think we can say it's Cartoon Network's fault, it makes about as much sense as blaming everyone who didn't watch Gundam on TV. Cartoon Network is doing nothing without reason. Cartoon Network is nothing but another group out trying to make money. Their money comes from ratings and things like that. If you were in charge of Cartoon Network can you honestly say you'd air a show like Gundam again when it has a history of poor ratings? Why air Gundam when you can air more profitable series A?
While I personally despise the show, I view Seed as where CN/Bandai had the huge potential, and they absolutely killed themselves. The manner in which Seed was aired on CN essentially killed the franchise, in terms of television airings. Now whether that was just CN's fault, Bandai's fault, or both their faults is the mystery (maybe someone more 'connected' than I can provide more back info on just who was making the decisions), but I view that as the major factor in why Gundam no longer airs on CN and probably won't again.

Seed could have been their next Wing, a huge hit. It had the flashy animation. It had the pretty boy main characters. It had certain levels of maturity to a point like Wing where it could attract some older fans too. Yes, original Gundam was a complete failure, but it is completely illogical to compare a 1979 TV show with a show from the early 2000's. People didn't tune out on Gundam because they disliked the themes and plots, they tuned out on Gundam because the animation sucked, it was viewed as too old. Seed did not have that problem. CN had a clear, documented success with Gundam Wing, a show that targetted a very similar audience as Seed. It's completely illogical in my mind to view MS Gundam's failure as meaning that Gundam Seed was gonna fail and hence they shouldn't give it a legimate shot.

What was so important in the success of Wing? The way CN treated it. They aired it EVERY weekday. I can't stress how important that was. And not only that, they aired two versions, one edited, and one unedited so both older and younger fans could appreciate it. And in the end while there were quirks that certainly bugged me (I will "destroy" you! -_-) the editing on the edited version certainly didn't kill the show.

Seed was treated with no respect whatsoever. It was doomed to fail from the very beginning. Rather than air it every day, CN aired it once a week. Seed's big flaw (in my eyes anyway) is that it is a very slow moving show. Airing it only once a week rather than 5 days a week like Gundam Wing meant it would take a full year to complete the show just once. No way was a large amount of people gonna stick around that long. And that one night a week was a saturday night, the night least likely for people to stay home and watch cartoons. And not only that, they aired it so late at night that the core audience of younger children almost certainly were not gonna be up that late to see it. As a clincher, despite its late timeslot, it was edited as if it aired at 3PM in the afternoon driving away even more viewers.

I'm not saying Seed would have been a hit on the level of Gundam Wing. But I think it definately had potential, and the way in which CN aired Seed, it was doomed from the start. They treated it so horrifically it was never gonna succeed. It obviously failed, and because of that we're likely not gonna see another Gundam series on CN again. CN/Bandai bumbled their way out of any possible success with the airing of Gundam Seed. That they didn't even attempt to do something like they did with Gundam Wing, that they so utterly failed on so many levels in terms of their strategy of airing the show completely killed Gundam on TV. It's very unfortunate. I've got no sympathy whatsoever for CN/Bandai when it comes to Seed/Seed Destiny's success in the US. Both sides, the companies and fans suffered tremendously because of that debaucle.
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Post by Kavik Ryx » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:03 pm

Then how would Zeta possibly fair on CN, granted that the only thing going against it is its age, and even it's animation is not that bad?

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Post by Quiddity » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:13 pm

I doubt it would do too good. I actually think the animation is quite good (I prefer it to Seed's), but I'm one who prefers 80's animation, so that's just me. I doubt it would do any better than MS Gundam would because of the 'outdated' animation. And knowing CN, if they were to even air it, it would be a 2AM on Saturday nights, heavily edited, and even the hardcore fans would ignore it.
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Post by Haros_Pet_Kat » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:21 pm

Zeta Gundam would have probably done decently on Adult Swim.

Granted, MGS was on there as well, but you had to stay up rediculously late to watch it, and it didn't even get to the 2nd half of the series.
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Post by Annon Kaies Zi » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:24 pm

I don't think Z Gundam would have been a huge hit. It's nothing like a Gundam SEED or Gundam W, which is what seems to appeal to the average United States audience. But it doesn't mean it shouldn't have been aired. They should have aired Gundam SEED at a good time slot on weekdays, and then aired Z Gundam at night to compliment it. The older viewers could tune in at night to watch it, along with Gundam SEED in the afternoon. It could defiantly pull in viewers if it was aired correctly. However, airing it the afternoon doesn't make any sense. The target audience wouldn't fit for the most part.

But Gundam SEED, like said above, should have been handled far better than it was. It could have easily brought back Gundam in the States to some degree. Maybe not as big as Gundam W was (sometimes it's hard to remember how popular it became), but it could have came close if treated properly. Then after showing it a few times, Gundam SEED Destiny should have been shown.
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Post by MV6000 the Ace Zeon Pilot » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:10 pm

If a Gundam show ever gets aired in Cartoon Network again I hope they try to avoid what they did to SEED and at least give it a chance
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Post by Ascension » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:27 pm

00 is pretty enough and has flashy enough fight scenes it might do well here. On the down side, it miiiiight have too much of a plot to appeal to the masses. Oh well... :roll:
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Post by Quiddity » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:53 pm

If a Gundam show ever gets aired in Cartoon Network again I hope they try to avoid what they did to SEED and at least give it a chance
I hate to sound so negative on the subject, but if Seed of all shows was treated that badly, I don't see how they would treat anything else any better. If a show that had the potential to be the next Gundam Wing was aired heavily edited on the worst night of the week at a time so late that much of its target audience would miss it, what would they do with a show with lesser potential like Turn A or X? Does CN even air anime in the weekday afternoons anymore? I admittingly have paid little attention to CN the last few years so I'm not familiar with how it is now; unfortunately the "Toonami" era that existed during Gundam Wing, G Gundam, etc... is long gone at this point if CN is still run how I remember it.
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Post by Leroy Landers » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:37 pm

^ There is no weekday Toonami anymore it was replaced with the kiddie Miguzi block, what's left of Toonami airs on Saturday night it consists of mostly goofy stuff not a drama to be found. "If" they were to air 00 and I stress "if" since the person in charge of programming has a disdain for Gundam (don't ask why I have no idea) it would be on Adult Swim but then you'd have to put up with the "I hate Anime" crowd that loves dren like 12 Oz. Mouse, Squidbillies, Tim an Eric, etc. The audience that liked to watch Gundam has pretty much been alienated and has moved on.

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Post by Imperial » Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:21 am

I hate to say it, but I think Leroy and Quiddity are right.

SEED could have been a smash hit if it hadn't been so poorly handled. Even when 00 comes over (of that I have no doubt), its chances on any current CN-affiliated programming block are slim.

Toonami isn't what it once was and Adult Swim is increasingly geared toward its own brand of comedies.

But that's not to say it's all doom and gloom. Perhaps the block that replaces Miguzi would be a friendlier environment to a Gundam series. Or maybe the current Toonami block will be able to do something with it. Gundam may be ailing here in the States, but it can still bounce back.
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Post by Leroy Landers » Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:58 am

^ If Gundam was to bounce back two things need to happen. A channel needs to be found that can air 00 unedited and edited to cater to two audiences one that will watch and enjoy the show and the other that will watch the show and want the toys. Stores need to be willing to carry Gundam toys again, sure the stupid looking G Gundam figures sold bad but what about the other stuff? Surely the figs from the UC series couldn't have done that bad?

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Post by J-Lead » Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:32 am

Leroy Landers wrote:Surely the figs from the UC series couldn't have done that bad?

While I have no numbers to back this up, I'm led to believe that the figures did much better than the show. I very seldom found a MSIA that was at KB toys for more than one day.
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Post by Mark064 » Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:59 am

I think everyone here has forgotten the reason that SEED got the timeslot it got and not the comfortable weekday afternoon timeslot. My only guess is that it was editted then realized it was like that in the end and just rode with it to maintain consistency. Not sure about everyone complaining how slow SEED is that and that it needs to air more then once a week. In Japan it aired weekly, in Canada it aired weekly. Both areas got SEED Destiny aired at the same rate. I guess the Americans are the special ones, either that or fans are just trying to find any flaw to the airing...
Gunota from Nikkei Characters! wrote:Reason why SEED's US broadcast is at 10:30pm? Due to strict US TV censorship laws even for cable channels, there was no way Sunrise could have shown episode 49 and 50 during the afternoon timeslot without major editing. Sunrise maintains a policy to broadcast the show closest to its original format which lead to the 10:30 slot.
Humans exploding is not something they can air easily. Censorship prevents a lot like pointing guns at people and what not. Since Wing I believe the censorship laws got more strict as well with the constant school shootings and 9/11. You can find many quotes of various people saying that they are unable to have people pointing guns at people thus unable to get the message across.

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Post by Kiggz » Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:43 am

ZZ I do not think we will ever get a release for that series in English due to low ratings in Japan and Americans who watched the Fan sub most likely do not care for a dubbing of the series.

ZZ looks to have little hope tho because after Bandai ZOINKS up Zetas dub release with mite I add ZOINKS subs that are not even close to real lines from the japanese series.

After this happened it really ZOINKS up chances of ZZ and possibly some other dub chances so bandai will now think more than twice ever time they plan a release in america

If your really interested in a series there is always still hope and a chance that Bandai will release it in North America but ZZ is not that popular here or in japan there is a better chance for something such as Stargazer ect.

Besides there is still subbed version and Fansubs of all the series so its great that we even get the chance to see some of these series at all so we should all be thankful for subs if not a dub!


Also I never knew you Americans never got Seed Destiny released on TV over there we have it in canada and its not so bad although I would rather watch Subs/Fansubs over the dub, did a DVD release come out in america ??

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Post by AmuroNT1 » Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:56 am

Mark064 wrote:Humans exploding is not something they can air easily. Censorship prevents a lot like pointing guns at people and what not. Since Wing I believe the censorship laws got more strict as well with the constant school shootings and 9/11. You can find many quotes of various people saying that they are unable to have people pointing guns at people thus unable to get the message across.
Even if you ignore the political stuff, there were things like the Janet Jackson "wardrobe malfunction", which seemed to make the censors act like all televisions contained C4 rigged to explode if they displayed any violence, foul language, or adult situations.

What made Seed's censorship really odd was that, apparently, they only had a problem with weapons being used on teenaged or younger characters - hence, whenever someone pointed a gun at Kira or his friends, it was altered into a laser gun (as if that is somehow LESS painful or violent than a shell-slinger), and the bit where Miriallia goes nutty and tries to shank Dearka just looks strange.
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Post by MV6000 the Ace Zeon Pilot » Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:26 am

Kiggz wrote:Also I never knew you Americans never got Seed Destiny released on TV over there we have it in canada and its not so bad although I would rather watch Subs/Fansubs over the dub, did a DVD release come out in america ??

Yes America has SEED Destiny
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Post by mcred23 » Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:32 am

AmuroNT1 wrote:Even if you ignore the political stuff, there were things like the Janet Jackson "wardrobe malfunction", which seemed to make the censors act like all televisions contained C4 rigged to explode if they displayed any violence, foul language, or adult situations.
That seemed to be the case with SEED's American airing. I remember shortly after one of the desert episodes aired the assorted comments that came from a guy being called a "water dealer" instread of an "arms dealer", along with other edits and things like that. It seemed like every thing that may have been connected to violence was getting an edit...
AmuroNT1 wrote:What made Seed's censorship really odd was that, apparently, they only had a problem with weapons being used on teenaged or younger characters - hence, whenever someone pointed a gun at Kira or his friends, it was altered into a laser gun (as if that is somehow LESS painful or violent than a shell-slinger), and the bit where Miriallia goes nutty and tries to shank Dearka just looks strange.
And, odder (and more annoying) still is the fact that there were cases where the edits were inconsistant. The best one I remember was (IIRC) from one of the last episodes where a gun switched back and forth between being normal and being Disco'd when the shots in the scene would change.
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