Gundam 0080 on the ANN's "Buried Treasure" Feature

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MrMarch
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Gundam 0080 on the ANN's "Buried Treasure" Feature

Post by MrMarch » Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:30 am

Not one to pass an opportunity to chat about my favorite Gundam story, the AnimeNewsNetwork has a feature about Gundam 0080 War in the Pocket on their website. Check it out:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/buried- ... 2007-08-16

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Post by Wedge14 » Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:47 pm

:D

I fell in love with 0080. It's definatly my favourite Gundam OVA or even anything gundam...but G gundam may have it beaten just in pure entertains the crap out wedge14 factor.

I defiantly do agree though, calling it a hidden treasure is a sad title for such a great mini series. I think it's wonderful how about anyone can enjoy it anime fan gundam fan or just a casual viewer. It's quick and straight to the point. And I think thats why its so appealing. Not only that it's very touching and human.

Numerous times i've shown non anime people this movie. And every time every person i've shown it has given it great reviews.

It's truly a shame it's overlooked.
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Post by Wingnut » Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:58 pm

Moved to Anime and Manga.
The Gundam wiki

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Post by Aegis » Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:27 am

What? No raves over Macross? ;p

I don't know about being a 'hidden treasure', but it's a Gundam series that is not only underrated, but should be viewed even if you're neither a Gundam fan or an anime fan (unless, of course, you're more interested in mindless action, to which I'd overlook that for something flashier like *shudder* 0083). I agree with the remarks as far as Tomino's storytelling goes: it tends to be chalk full of dialogue and plenty of wtf moments. In comparison, 0080 was more grounded, down-to-earth, and made it a point to show us that war is bad.

I'm also one of the few who actually liked the music in the OVA, and considering the nature of the story, the synthesizers and the cheesy tunes were very much appropriate, complete with the cheery happy vocals.

All things considering, scarred as he may be, Al came out of this chin up and better than anyone would expect after seeing a loss like this, especially realizing that Chris was the one piloting the Alex.

Gundam 0080 ranks high amongst all Gundam titles, though Turn A Gundam still remains my personal favourite of them all. ;p

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Post by Haros_Pet_Kat » Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:25 am

I have always considered 0080 to be one of the best, even above the highly acclaimed 8th MS team. Even though 8th MS Team has the best grasp of technological realism and grunt portrayal, 0080 has the best grasp of the actual sadness of war while still having some really good action.

Tomino's stories were usually about advancement of the human race and those trying to survive. 0080 was about very normal people.
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Post by MrMarch » Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:23 pm

Wedge14
Yeah, I've always felt Gundam 0080 just doesn't get enough attention. So I plug it any time I can :)

I'm a fan of very human stories, which are very rare in any anime, not just Gundam. But the great thing about anime is that there is the possibility for truly great storytelling in animated format, in contrast to most western animation which almost never features a serious story like you would see in Ghost in the Shell, Gundam 0080 or Grave of the Fireflies.

Gundam 0080 is not just my favorite Gundam story, it's one of my favorite animes, period :)

Aegis
Nah, no Macross. There's enough Macross debate over on MW to make my head spin, especially given the Macross Frontier news that came out today.

I liked the music for Gundam 0080 as well. It is dated, but it's also incredibly appropriate for the story. Rather than just using wild J-pop for the sake of a "cool" theme, the eclectic electronic score plays perfectly to match the characterizations of the series and the themes of Al's character in particular. It's good stuff.

Haros_Pet_Kat
I also really like stories a little more grounded. I dislike most of the Gundam stories with Newtypes, even CCA (which was pretty cool overall) and the deus ex machina at the end. It just feels that while the concept of human's adapting to space in unexpected ways makes for interesting dramatic possibilities, the comic book-esque "super powers" manner in which Tomino directed most Gundam series is weak storytelling. Gundam 0080, Gundam 0083 and 08th MS Team were the series I got the most out of from the Gundam franchise. I've not seen Turn A Gundam, so I can't comment (sorry Aegis).

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Post by Aegis » Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:59 pm

Well, seeing the high praises you gave for 0080 and 8th MS Team (I don't recall seeing you write anything on 0083), I personally doubt you'll like Turn A quite as much as you would 0080, but I'm sure you would find more enjoyment out of that series than all the others. I don't think I need to explain why it's considered a good series, as Turn A has been talked quite alot. :P Just know that, while it still has some weird moments, you will like how much more grounded it is compared to past Tomino works, and I'm sure you'll find much of the cast to be very different from the usual, yet still believable.

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Post by MrMarch » Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:23 pm

Yeah, I'll have to give it a shot. Just as long as I'm not turned off by the first dozen episodes (no G Gundam for this anime fan thank you) :)

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Post by flamingtroll » Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:28 am

I find the antagonism toward Tomino rather amusing though in the forum of the article. Seems like they are taking out their suffering form UC elitist persecution on him. :D

I think people should realize that Tomino's recognition should not be compared in the standard of anime we have today. It would be like saying Gene Roddenberry is a 'hack' (as some would put it) because the original Star Trek was low budget, episodic and for the most part pretty corny.

And heck, some of Tomino's better stuff is still better than a lot of things I see today, even though he does have a fair share of mediocre to bad productions.

0080 is among my top gundam titles and the first time I watched it I was around the same age as Al (and is some what like Al various regards, although I was probably slightly more mature than Al in regards to stuff like wars and human sufferng due to my first gundam experience being Zeta gundam), you can guess the powerful impact the show have had on me.

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Post by Nagi » Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:05 am

flamingtroll wrote:Seems like they are taking out their suffering form UC elitist persecution on him.
Yes, because the only conceivable way to ever have any issue with anything Tomino ever does is to somehow have been traumatized by an uninvolved third party, right? Heaven forbid any of us actually...y'know...have some genuine issue with the way he writes or anything.

Some of us don't like being told something is "wrong" with us purely because we don't happen to share your opinion, flamingtroll. Just to let you know.

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Post by MrMarch » Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:15 am

Yeah, I'm gonna skip over that one. This is a fun thread and a celebration of one of Gundam's best stories, IMO. Only advice I can say is stop taking things so personally.

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Post by jam! » Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:29 am

Gundam 0080 was definitely an experience for me.
It was really the most emotionally-fuelled anime series I've ever watched. The last battle really struck a chord with me too. Poor Bernie. And Bernie's speech to Al at the end? That was simply the icing on the cake. Whoa.

I know some thought it was stupid that the Gundam was damaged badly by a Zaku and that the whole series had no point but imo, I think they missed the point of the series which was elaborated on above by someone else. A wonderful story really.

It really changed how I viewed anime war stories. I wish more series would strive to be as expressive as 0080 was.

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Post by flamingtroll » Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:34 pm

Nagi wrote:
flamingtroll wrote:Seems like they are taking out their suffering form UC elitist persecution on him.
Yes, because the only conceivable way to ever have any issue with anything Tomino ever does is to somehow have been traumatized by an uninvolved third party, right? Heaven forbid any of us actually...y'know...have some genuine issue with the way he writes or anything.

Some of us don't like being told something is "wrong" with us purely because we don't happen to share your opinion, flamingtroll. Just to let you know.
How did I even tell anyone that their opinion is right or wrong. But some of the comments in the forum under that article are pretty antagonistic without much examples of what they are criticizing about. For example, calling him a 'hack', without much definition of a 'hack' in producing anime, nor providing examples why he is considered a hack, nor did they compare his stuff with his contemporaries to provide a fair benchmark of his writing. Heck, I doubt half of the people posting there had watched enough anime from that period to do that.

And, of course, that comment was meant to be a joke to begin with. I personally doesn't like half of Tomino's stuff in Gundam, but that don't mean I would think less (or too much) of him because I try to understand the reason why he was considered to be an important person in anime culture.

I am just saying that I THINK that people, especially newer anime viewers, should try to understand the historical viewpoint with which why many people within the anime culture thinks that he had made a big impact, instead of the usual . "Oh, he is overrated" just becuase they don't like his style of directing or what not.

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Post by Nagi » Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:42 pm

flamingtroll wrote:I am just saying that I THINK that people, especially newer anime viewers, should try to understand the historical viewpoint with which why many people within the anime culture thinks that he had made a big impact, instead of the usual . "Oh, he is overrated" just becuase they don't like his style of directing or what not.
As you seem to say yourself, it's entirely possible to appreciate the historical context of someone's work and still not like it. That doesn't mean we have to tip-toe around it though, and avoid using the same critical eye on them that we would of any other director. An influencial director is still a director, and is still subject to the same potential flaws and virtues as any other in the field, and if we feel the need to point them out, we should have the right to do so without having to, again, make a lot of handicapping statements about context.

I appreciate that his work has made a big impact on not just the anime industry, but the entire Japanese entertainment industry, as a whole. However, I still don't like his directing style, I still think he struggles greatly at writing effective character development and interaction, and I still think most of his older work has aged horribly compared to, say, Leiji Matsumoto's body of older work. Yes, looking at his work from an objective viewpoint, I think the technical merits of it are greatly overstated, for the most part, and I shouldn't have to make a bunch of hobbling, excusatory references back to context to be able to say so. I realize the time in which it was made, I realize the impact it had, and I respect that, but at the same time when I look at it objectively, I don't find much to personally like about it, and yet I'm apparently not allowed to say that without having my opinion discounted because I "don't appreciate older titles" (false), "am not qualified because I was somehow 'wronged' by his fans" (false), or about half a dozen other excuses that have been wrongly made of me over the years to basically make my viewpoint seem less intelligent.

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Post by flamingtroll » Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:56 pm

Unless you are the person that called him a 'hack' without a good explanation :D. I am perfectly fine with constructive criticism of anything, as long as they provide some good arguments, examples, or just indicate that it is a personal preference, not a rational opinion. I just don't like to see a criticism on anyone without a good amount of backing.
I don't find much to personally like about it, and yet I'm apparently not allowed to say that without having my opinion discounted because I "don't appreciate older titles" (false), "am not qualified because I was somehow 'wronged' by his fans" (false), or about half a dozen other excuses that have been wrongly made of me over the years to basically make my viewpoint seem less intelligent.
That might have constituted as part of UC elitism that I was speaking of, at least within the gundam context.

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Post by MrMarch » Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:01 pm

Nagi wrote: I appreciate that his work has made a big impact on not just the anime industry, but the entire Japanese entertainment industry, as a whole. However, I still don't like his directing style, I still think he struggles greatly at writing effective character development and interaction, and I still think most of his older work has aged horribly compared to, say, Leiji Matsumoto's body of older work. Yes, looking at his work from an objective viewpoint, I think the technical merits of it are greatly overstated, for the most part, and I shouldn't have to make a bunch of hobbling, excusatory references back to context to be able to say so. I realize the time in which it was made, I realize the impact it had, and I respect that, but at the same time when I look at it objectively, I don't find much to personally like about it, and yet I'm apparently not allowed to say that without having my opinion discounted because I "don't appreciate older titles" (false), "am not qualified because I was somehow 'wronged' by his fans" (false), or about half a dozen other excuses that have been wrongly made of me over the years to basically make my viewpoint seem less intelligent.
Wow, that was a very nice and well constructed opinion. I really respect your position, even if I may not agree with it 100%. But I'd be hard pressed to express my own as eloquently.

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Post by Leader » Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:44 pm

0080 is my favorite Gundam series by far. The action scenes, while short, were awesome, and the writing was perfection, particularly, the characters. There wasn’t some moronic idealist (Shiro Armada) or some over emotional teen (Amuro Ray). It was all so real; I wouldn’t be surprised if the writers based the characters off of people they knew. It’s probably my second favorite anime and third favorite piece of animation period, behind only Akira and Heavy Metal, The Movie. The music kicks butt too. Go synthesizers!!!

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Post by ShadowCell » Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:10 pm

Gundam 0080 remains one of my favorite Gundam shows simply because of the giant pool of pure irony it wallows in. The whole overarching theme of the OVA is "remember, the people inside the mecha are way more important than the mecha they're piloting." And what's the one enduring aspect of Gundam 0080 that has outlived the rest of the OVA?

The mecha.

Ah, irony.

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Post by MrMarch » Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:00 am

It's still a mecha anime and thus the unusually well written story has limited it's audience by convention of being a mecha anime. That's why it's perfect for a buried treasure feature :)

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Post by Saikuba » Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:54 pm

Really I'm not too fond of the last episode of 0080. Everything seems contrived so as to heighten the eventual tragedy, and I think they overdid that to the point where I disconnect with the story by the end of the episode. I guess what I mean is that in making sure that we realize that war is pointless by making the end battle pointless, they went so far that I couldn't really be interested in the episode anymore.

Not that I don't like the series. In particular I think that episode 4 is very effective in how the light tone of the series to that point disappears and everything goes straight to hell. It's interesting to see Bernie's attitude toward war in the earlier episodes being as more as more of a joke since his assignments have been so easy, and then have that all dissapear when he realizes how suicidal their mission really was. I also like episode 5 in that Bernie reacts pretty realistically and then stands up for his convictions.

I guess what kills part of ep 5 and most of ep 6 for me is that I don't understand Killing's motivations at all. Clearly he wants to nuke the colony for some reason and it seems that the Alex is just an excuse to do so (or else he would given the Cyclops Team more resources rather than ensuring his destruction). But why is he so intent on doing so, other than giving a reason for Bernie not to run away in episode 5 (and even then, it's not like destroying the Gundam would save the colony, at best it would delay it's doom, but the whole point is moot because the nukes never get there...)

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