My Tomino checklist...

The place to discuss anything relating to anime or manga.
User avatar
Koshernova
Posts: 375
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:30 am
Location: Glasgow (the city, not the Knightmare Frame)

My Tomino checklist...

Hi everyone! I've been lurking for a while but only now decided to post... I'm Kosh, how are ye? Good? Good. In case you have that sort of memory for an almost-inactive member, I used to be A Bao Char in the old Gundam.com forum and posted semi-regularly in the old Models section. With that out of the way, let's move on.

Ever since watching the 0079 movies and Zeta, I've become a big fan of Tomino's anime, which was cemented when I first saw a non-Gundam show by him, L-Gaim (it also helped I'm a fan of FSS but I digress). Since then I've been trying to watch as much of his works as possible, my favorite being Turn A Gundam so far.

At the moment I've left Ideon halfway through, in favour of Victory Gundam. My indecision aside, I will of course finish watching these shows soon in any case. My question is, what next? Tomino is relatively prolific as far as anime directors go, and I'm wondering what to watch next. There's Dunbine of course, which I've heard nothing but praise for, but I'm also curious about more recent productions like King Gainer and Brain Powerd. While of course everyone has their own opinions and favourites, I'd like some input from people who've watched more Tomino anime than I have, pros and cons of some of the shows, that sort of thing.

I've been reading Mecha Talk long enough to know silly favourites threads aren't tolerated, so that's really not what I'm after here. So, onwards, in anticipation of your insight into the future... of my anime watching. Heh.
Quiddity
Posts: 204
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:13 am
Location: The Ephemeris

Tomino's a big favorite of myself as well (after all, I did review three of his series here at this site :P). I'll assume that you've seen all his Gundam stuff. I personally still have to see Gundam ZZ and Victory Gundam. Original Gundam, Zeta Gundam and Char's Counterattack were nothing short of amazing, and Turn A Gundam was extremely good as well. Like you I enjoyed L-Gaim a lot as well.

I can offer my input on three Tomino shows that it doesn't appear you've seen (or completed). I've yet to see Brain Powered (I own it actually, just never have gotten around to it for some reason :P), Triton of the Sea, and Brave Raideen and have only seen a couple of episodes of Xabungle and Zambot 3 so I'll refrain from commenting on them for the time being.

Dunbine is a mixed bag. The show's concept is a very good one, and quite original for an 80's mecha TV show. The animation is for the most part quite good, being done by one of my favorite character designers, Tomonori Kogawa. The mecha are also rather unique and interesting. The big problem I have with Dunbine though is that just when the show is hitting its peak, a major plot change occurs that sends the quality crashing down. I'd say that for at least a dozen episodes or so the story is very dragged out and slows to a crawl. It picks up slightly at the end, but by that point the damage has already been done.

I've got very little to complain about Ideon. After a rough first 10 episodes or so, it becomes arguably Tomino's best non-Gundam show. It's another Kogawa anime, so the animation is pretty good for the most part, particularly in the movies. Very odd and strange mecha. It is much more of a super robot show than Tomino's other 80's offerings. The ending movie, Ideon: Be Invoked is without a doubt a top 3 anime movie of all time with me, with End of Evangelion and the original Galaxy Express 999 movie. If you like Eva you should enjoy it, as Eva was heavily influenced by it, particularly with respect to "Instrumentality". Make sure to finish it when you're done with victory! :P

King Gainer's an "Eh" show with me. I didn't care much for the early episodes, many of them bored me. Around ep 12 or 13 or so (I think) the show started to pick up and was relatively entertaining until the end, although the ending was somewhat anticlimatic with me. That said, the show never reached a 'Great' level with me. If you're talking about any random director out there, its a servicable show. If you're talking about Tomino though, arguably the greatest anime director of all time, it has to be seen as a dissappointment in my mind. It does have pretty good animation, interesting mecha design, and a very good dub IMHO. And Tomino's reputation of incomprehensible names remains (President Kitzmoot for example).
MAHQ Staff - Dunbine, L-Gaim, Escaflowne, Ideon, Gasaraki, The Big O, Overman King Gainer, Zambot 3 and FLCL
In my search for justice, I created war. In my search for war, I created death. In my search for death... I have lost my soul.
User avatar
padre
Posts: 120
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:02 am

I have to disagree with Quiddity regarding Dunbine after the change in direction, if I may call it that. I enjoyed those episodes just as much as the ones before it, but I watch Tomino for the characters and not the plot, and the story certainly takes a different route through those episodes.

Garzey's Wing, the first of the Dunbine spin offs, is probably the worst thing Tomino has ever done. It lacks direction, and offers no closure whatever. And yet, I still like it for some reason.

I've only seen the first two episodes of The Wings of Rean, but thus far it is shaping up better than Garzey's Wing.

I have mixed feelings about Ideon. The series is a mixed bag, with flashes of brilliance, and lulls in between. The movies, however, are fantastic. Of course, they lack the content the series has, but their presentation is far superior in my estimation.

Brain Powered is probably Tomino's most difficult work. It's obsessed with the parent-child relationship: all of the characters, humanity's relationship with the earth, the aptly-named Orphan, the Antibodies relationships with Orphan and the humans; it is a work driven by its theme, not its characters or plot.

Overman King Gainer is probably the most whimsical of Tomino's work. It's the most lighthearted and downright fun of all I've seen.

I only watched the first episode of Raideen, and I wasn't impressed. That Tomino left the show halfway through to go work on Star of the Seine does not leave me hopeful, either. Still, it's only one episode, so my opinion is hardly final.
Happiness is a warm gun.
Bang bang, shoot shoot.
User avatar
Chris
Administrator
Posts: 3381
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:20 pm
Contact:

As a Tomino fan, I'll through in my two cents. I don't know if I'd call him the greatest anime director ever, but he's definitely one of the all-time greats. Here's some thoughts on the non-Gundam series I've seen.

Zambot 3- Only seen the first episode so far, but it's pretty much what you'd expect from a super robot show from the 70s.

Ideon- A great series, though a bit problematic. For the first 20 episodes, there's some good stuff going on, but after awhile it tends to be come really slow and repetitive. At around episode 20, it kicks into full throttle and goes non-stop into Be Invoked, which I'll agree with Brian is one of the best anime films ever.

Xabungle- Also only seen the first episode, but it looks like lighthearted mecha fare.

Dunbine- A personal favorite. Very similar in tone to Zeta Gundam, so if you enjoy that series, you'll like Dunbine. I have to disagree with Brian about the final arc - I enjoyed it because the movement of the story to Earth changed the stakes of the war. Even then, it still ends with one of Tomino's infamous "Kill 'Em All" endings. The Neo Byston Well OVA is pretty bleh, and I'm not sure if Tomino did that one himself.

L.Gaim- Although this series is bookended by Dunbine and Zeta, it's very different. Filled with lighthearted stuff, it works on many levels: characters, action and fantastic mecha designs by Mamoru Nagano (making it a must-see for fans of his Five Star Stories). Like Ideon and a lot of other Tomino series, it's kinda slow for the first half until things really get going.

Brain Powerd- As padre said, a difficult work. It's full of lots of Tomino-isms: angsty teenagers who have problematic relationships with parents, mysterious masked villains, etc. There's a lot of potential for the series, but so much goes unexplained. You feel like the first episode is really the middle of the series, and you're always playing catch up with some of the technical concepts that are vaguely explained. There are some pluses - the series features one of the better romances for a Tomino series, as romance isn't exactly his strong suit. It again features great designs from Nagano, as well as a haunting score by Yoko Kanno.

Overman King Gainer- I've only seen the first half of this series, but I greatly enjoy it. This is the new "Happy Tomino" that first appeared with Turn A Gundam. Wacky mecha designs, strange characters and some great action. This is definitely Tomino having fun with the genre - only in a series like this will you have the enemy female pilot switch sides, become a schoolteacher, and win a relay race in a photo finish simply because her breasts are so large.

Wings of Rean- Set in the Dunbine universe. I've only seen the first episode, and it was rather messy. Lots of people chasing other people for reasons that aren't clearly explained, then some Byston Well ships show up and more confusion ensues. Given the pricing on this release, I'd recommend holding off on it in favor of Dunbine and other shows, leaving this until the end.
Co-founder/editor-in-chief, MAHQ
Pronouns: he/him/his
User avatar
Kishiria
Posts: 231
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:32 am
Location: Hidalgo Colony, Side 3

I enjoyed "Overman". Just the opening titles (you can find them on YouTube) are worth the price of admission.
Techno-Viking does not dance to the music; the music dances to Techno-Viking.
Quiddity
Posts: 204
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:13 am
Location: The Ephemeris

Indeed, even if I don't think the show itself is amazing, the opening certainly is a great one :lol:
MAHQ Staff - Dunbine, L-Gaim, Escaflowne, Ideon, Gasaraki, The Big O, Overman King Gainer, Zambot 3 and FLCL
In my search for justice, I created war. In my search for war, I created death. In my search for death... I have lost my soul.
User avatar
Ascension
Posts: 1474
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 11:50 pm

I've read the Brain Powered manga and highly enjoyed it (even if it was, admittedly, more than a little confusing), but I've read that the anime suffers from inconsistent animation quality. I personally can't say, as I've only read the manga, but it might be something to take into consideration.
Don't call it a comeback...
...in fact, it's best if you forget I was ever here before.
Saikuba
Posts: 155
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:50 pm

Ascension wrote:I've read the Brain Powered manga and highly enjoyed it (even if it was, admittedly, more than a little confusing), but I've read that the anime suffers from inconsistent animation quality. I personally can't say, as I've only read the manga, but it might be something to take into consideration.
That is indeed one of Brain Powered's flaws. There are episodes with good animation quality, but in a few nothing really seems to want to move at all to the point where you start to think that the antibodies characteristic teleport-blinking (which is actually very cool) was invented just to save animation costs.

I'd say that it is more often the mecha fights than the characters that suffer from poor animation quality, though it only gets really bad in a few places. Then again I haven't seen Brain Powered for around six monthes so my exact memories of this are a bit hazy.
User avatar
Koshernova
Posts: 375
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:30 am
Location: Glasgow (the city, not the Knightmare Frame)

Thanks for your comments guys. Just for the record, I have watched L-Gaim and loved it. It's a pity Nagano's final vision never made it to TV screens after he was disappointed with the FSS movie. L-Gaim is amazing due to the combination of Nagano's epic storytelling with Tomino's multi-layered conspiracies and character development. Gaw Ha Lecce is one of my favorite anime characters, period.

I think I may go for Dunbine next, as I am very curious about it. I'm glad you guys answered my questions regarding more recent works, which seem to have been ignored by the larger anime community. I've always been curious about Brain Powerd, not only because it's yet another Nagano-Tomino collaboration but also because I have heard of some production woes (apparently Yoko Kanno did not know what the show was about when composing the soundtrack, so I hear). Moreover, I have heard that Tomino was not too pleased with Evangelion's success as he did not like that series (don't know why though), and that his idea was that Brain Powerd would be an "Evangelion beater". Any take on this or is it all just unfounded rumour, lies and chickanery? :)
toysdream
Posts: 3164
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:24 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA
Contact:

I do recall seeing some Tomino interviews from the Brain Powered era where he discussed his dislike for Evangelion, mostly on the grounds that it was too negative, focusing on depicting pathology rather than solving problems. (I'm paraphrasing, but I think that was pretty much it.) This seems ironic coming from "Kill 'em all Tomino," but looking at his own post-Evangelion works, I feel like it motivated him to shift his own focus towards modeling positive behavior.

Brain Powered and Turn A, for instance, end up as parables of forgiveness and reconciliation--the first within troubled families, the latter between estranged societies. King Gainer is a lot lighter in tone, a bit like Xabungle, but even here Tomino focuses on a introverted, alienated otaku youth growing into manhood under the mentorship of a lively "big brother" figure (kind of like a healthier version of the Char/Kamille relationship in Zeta Gundam). And in the Zeta movies, he made a lot of changes not only to the ending but also to the depiction of the characters, as with the warmer relationship between Emma and Henken and the reinforcement of Bright's family ties. Looking at the work he's done since Evangelion, not to mention his subsequent interviews, I do get the impression that Tomino is trying to deliver more positive messages than he used to.

As far as entertainment value, I've really been enjoying his recent work. Recent Tomino anime is very choppy and fast-paced, but the imagery is really beautiful, and he's gotten very good at impressive action setpieces. I loved King Gainer and the Zeta movies, and Wings of Rean is off to a pretty interesting start. Your mileage may vary, though.

-- Mark
User avatar
Dygenguard
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:06 am
Location: Swordian

Tomino also wanted Brain Powerd to rival Eva in that "esoteric mech" vein (see also: RahXephon for "esoteric mech"). It's a shame since too many shows are measured against Eva just because it's the most well known, but Brain Powerd just had a different approach and an arguably more positive outlook. The idea was noble, but the execution of Brain Powerd was...well, a little flimsy at best.

I'd like to agree with the comment about things being choppy, but with great action sequences. However, the last shows I've seen of Tomino's were Wings of Rean and some Overman King Gainer. Rean was eye candy, but felt rushed, and Gainer was fairly entertaining, but again, each scene felt like it lasted three seconds. They were highly entertaining, but lacked something. Perhaps ol' Kill 'Em All is just trying new things(?)
Ougi: Guren Maengun!!!
Saikuba
Posts: 155
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:50 pm

I'd say that Brain Powered and Evagelion are really only similar on the most superficial of levels. Yes there are some similar plot devices and some similar stylistic choices, and I always did feel that Yuu's flashbacks to his childhood were meant to be reminiscent of Shinji's life, but at it's heart it's a Tomino anime through and through. Themes of parental abandonment in particular are at an all time here, though pretty much every Tomino cliche shows up (except for "Kill 'em all" -- no one dies en masse except nameless extras).

As for the scores, from the interviews that I've seen it sounds like Tomino gave Kanno more of an overview of what he wanted his philosophy for the series to be, neglecting to mention anything about the plot or characters (though this is also hazy memory at this point so don't take this as absolute fact). The result is a soundtrack which isn't what you'd really expect for a mech anime of this sort. It works in some areas (I especially like when Ark is used), in others the music doesn't really connect to the action as well. I think it gets better after seeing a few episodes just because you get used to what kind of soundtrack it is going to be.
flamingtroll
Posts: 456
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:13 pm

The ending movie, Ideon: Be Invoked is without a doubt a top 3 anime movie of all time with me, with End of Evangelion and the original Galaxy Express 999 movie. If you like Eva you should enjoy it, as Eva was heavily influenced by it, particularly with respect to "Instrumentality". Make sure to finish it when you're done with victory!
Ah my sentiment is almost the same. Be Invoked is definitely a very memorable movie that it is worth to sit through the TV series so you can watch the movies with a better understanding of the characters and the story, even if you don't like the TV series. It just had that great of a mileage for me.
User avatar
Sume Gai
Posts: 3909
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:57 pm
Location: side 3; watchin' out for Zabis

on Zambot 3:

this starts out feeling like an old super robot title and pulls a bait and switch to a tragic angle that won me over shortly after introducing (forgive me if I romanize this incorrectly) "Nigen Bakudan"

If you like Tomino's darker works it's a must watch.
User avatar
Mark064
Posts: 1667
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:57 pm

I hated Zambot 3. There are few super robot shows I can truly say I hate but Zambot 3 is one of them. The stupidity of the characters is hard to believe. For example in an early episode everyone hates Zambot 3 so an enemy attacks in the middle of the ocean. What does Zambot 3 do? Drag the enemy right into the city where everyone is! End result? More people hate Zambot 3. I was reminded of ZZ Gundam in how that someone would have a habit of getting mad and stealing part of the ZZ Gundam and flying off somewhere, of course making ZZ Gundam unable to be used. The exact same thing would happen in Zambot 3. Hated it both times. And do not get me started on the enemies. If you really want to watch a show with a 3 in it watch Daitarn 3, much better.
User avatar
Kavik Ryx
Posts: 1784
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:28 pm
Location: Expatriating in Tel Aviv
Contact:

Tomino and cheesy super robots don't mix well. I saw the first episode of Zambot 3 and found it exceptionally bad. I find the opening hilarious though.
User avatar
kupoartist
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:21 am
Location: England, UK

Dunbine is the only non-Gundam Tomino series I've stuck with until the end, and I'd say it's better than a few of the Gundams (0079, ZZ at least). I think it's doubly interesting as a kind of proto-Escaflowne (which I'd accordingly call a fusion of Dunbine and Fushigi Yuugi for anyone who has seen either) and would surely be worth watching for anyone who liked L-Gaim as well (which I must admit I've seen very little of, beyond that awesome Opening Theme :P).

I've 'got half-way' through Ideon twice before. I'd recommend seeing it through if you're the kind of person who easily drops series, yet likes to see them completed. I've found it... really quite boring, and worse than the original Gundam which I was never too excited about.
Quiddity
Posts: 204
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:13 am
Location: The Ephemeris

kupoartist wrote:Dunbine is the only non-Gundam Tomino series I've stuck with until the end, and I'd say it's better than a few of the Gundams (0079, ZZ at least). I think it's doubly interesting as a kind of proto-Escaflowne (which I'd accordingly call a fusion of Dunbine and Fushigi Yuugi for anyone who has seen either) and would surely be worth watching for anyone who liked L-Gaim as well (which I must admit I've seen very little of, beyond that awesome Opening Theme :P).

I've 'got half-way' through Ideon twice before. I'd recommend seeing it through if you're the kind of person who easily drops series, yet likes to see them completed. I've found it... really quite boring, and worse than the original Gundam which I was never too excited about.
:( Ideon's definately a better show in its second half. Eps 23-39 are for the most part great. Those first 10 episodes or so certainly are brutal though. At the very least there's a compilation movie out there, although it does skip much of the stuff in the second half of the series, like the entire arcs on Kyaral and Earth.
MAHQ Staff - Dunbine, L-Gaim, Escaflowne, Ideon, Gasaraki, The Big O, Overman King Gainer, Zambot 3 and FLCL
In my search for justice, I created war. In my search for war, I created death. In my search for death... I have lost my soul.
ParaParaJMo
Posts: 59
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:21 pm
Location: Sakaide-shi, Kagawa-ken, Japan
Contact:

Hideo Kojima reminds me of Tomino, both of them don't really have egos and they are highly critical of their own works.
To see my anime reviews, please go to
http://www.youtube.com/user/paraparajmo
Gadget
Posts: 835
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:13 am

Didn't Tomino said he did not want to do another Gundam. Or was it he didn't want to work with Sunrise/Bandai. I think it was mentioned, but I cannot remember where.
Post Reply