Are you Turn-Atheist?

[kupoartist]

Regardless of whether you like the show or not, is Turn-A Gundam really the far flung future of all Gundam, or is it just another alternate Universe... or somewhere in between? Poll above, thoughts below, Lame puns ahoy.

[Gambit01]

Turn-Atheist. Didn't 'Kill 'em all' Tomino want it to be the love child of ALL his mecha animes, and not just Gundam?

[Annon Kaies Zi]

I said "yes" because it's hard to deny the fact that Turn A Gundam has many references to Universal Century, as long as other AU series. If not of all the universes, at very least the future of Universal Century. Though it's easy to piece things together to make a time line (not always accurately...but it's fun to play around with). But, the way I see it:

After Colony
-Moonlight Butterfly
Current Era (being our time now, covering BC and AD...or BCE and CE...however you look at it)
Universal Century
After War
Future Century
-Moonlight Butterfly
Correct Century

I don't include Cosmic Era, as obviously it was not released when Tomino made Turn A Gundam. However, if I had to put it somewhere for fun, I'd place it probably after After Colony (before that Moonlight Butterfly).

[Krogoth255]

I do like how Turn A Gundam combines all the elements of Gundam metaverse and each universe is a part of cycle of destruction and rebuild.

The only problem is how can you directly connect each universe in chronological order?


My best guess is UC => AC => AW => FC => CC.

CE is not part of the cycle. It is truly an alternative universe and retelling of UC for the new generation.

[J-Lead]

I sort of look at the way Turn A presents things as a "hypothetical future" to all the universes rather than the set-in-stone future of UC.

[mcred23]

I voted for no, but I really don't like the choices in the poll...

That said, I really don't know and I really don't care if Turn A someone is connected to one or all of the other Gundam shows. Might it be in someway connected to one or all of the other AU's out there? Yes. Might it just be another AU? Also yes. There are lots of things that support both cases, and I really don't side with one or the other as both make a lot of good (and bad) reasons.

When it comes right down to it, I simply see it as another AU that may or may not be connected to one or several or all of the other Gundam universes in some way.

[wraith1701]

I'm torn between 'Future of all Gundam' and 'Alternate Universe'; with strong leanings towards 'Alternate Universe'. True, there are many references to other Gundam series in Turn-A, but the same could be said of Gundam Seed. After all, Seed has Zakus, right?

[Aegis]

I personally also consider Turn A to be more of a seperate AU that simply used other universes as a loose 'what if' story. Mind you, I also happen to like the idea of all the universes being connected together with Turn A being the be all and end all of the timelines. I don't care if Tomino doesn't bother giving us a detailed history of how the timelines are connected since that's not even the point of the series anyways, other than to introduce a nice little surprise factor and something to be used as an excuse for Black History. I just happen to like the fact that it's the only series to even make such an implication (G Gundam and its cameos are simply cameos, nothing more).

[kupoartist]

I like the idea of Turn-A as the future of UC, but the links between CC and the other eras are otherwise pretty loose. To the point where AW, FC and AC are just as likely to be Television shows within the UC/CC canon. Their significance just got inflated by the thousands of years of misinformation and decay called 'the black history' in Turn-A

[Mark064]

You know I thought about and really if you think about it you can't think of any possible way the series goes together by explaining events in previous series. The way it goes is various cycles of going into space, and eventually leaving on space colonies. In other words any event is pretty much independent from each other. In other words current Universe A probably has limited knowledge of past Universe B. How much and what is questionable.

I like the idea of Turn-A as the future of UC, but the links between CC and the other eras are otherwise pretty loose. To the point where AW, FC and AC are just as likely to be Television shows within the UC/CC canon. Their significance just got inflated by the thousands of years of misinformation and decay called 'the black history' in Turn-A

So much so that technology from the various universes are being dug up in Mountain Cycles? That's quite a leap there. It's like if thousands of years from now someone watched out history and over time some show like the Jetsons (let's imagine it's a live action show) got mistaken as their past. But not only that they dug up Jetsons hovercars too which I guess someone built just for fun. Quite a stretch there.

[padre]

I honestly don't think you're asking the right question. The premise of Turn A is that all of these events have happened over thousands of years. But of course, that was never part of the premise when Wing or G or X were made. Asking whether Turn A is "really" the future or not is akin to asking whether Iphigenia died or not. In Aeschylus, yes, in Euripides, no. There is no fact of the matter. It's all artifice. And Turn A was written based on an assumption the others lack. That's all.

[kupoartist]

So much so that technology from the various universes are being dug up in Mountain Cycles? That's quite a leap there. It's like if thousands of years from now someone watched out history and over time some show like the Jetsons (let's imagine it's a live action show) got mistaken as their past. But not only that they dug up Jetsons hovercars too which I guess someone built just for fun. Quite a stretch there.

That's not what i'm saying at all. There are no machines from the AU series in the Mountain Cycles.

[Mark064]

You're right there aren't any AU machines but AU technology is present. The Gozzo/Godwin and Eagle both use AW style cockpits. The Mahiroo has a Mobile Trace System (or at least sometihng like it). And none of these suits even come from Mountain Cycles they are all just really really old suits, the Gozzo and Eagle are said to be older then the SUMO and the Mahiroo is at least 1000 years old. AC is the exception in this probably due to the fact that they destroyed everything, I assume data as well.

You also have to remember Dark History isn't merly just footage from past events it contains quite a bit of data too. Some of the data Guin copied included both Fuunsaiki and Nether Gundam. So in order for the keepers of Dark History to make such a massive blunder... well that's pretty much unbeleiveable.

And lastly you are ignoring an important part of the data. Humanity goes through many cycles of going into space then leaving the Solar System. This I guess it the best possible explination as to why there are different Eras from UC, FC, AC, CE, AW, etc. And I guess lastly we can go to the Turn A Gundam manga in Gundam Ace which directly stated after the various timelines past and named them.

[solid snake]

I suppose it's possible, though until someone comes out and says it's official I won't take a firm "yes" or "no" stance.

[HEDGESMFG]

The entire concept is intentionally designed to be open-ended so viewers, and even future Gundam content creators can more or less create their own canon on the matter. While CE may have come after the creation of Turn-A, there are a few subtle homages within the CE canon that could indicate Turn-A still being in it's future (or possibly even it's past!). Art from Turn-A Gundam episodes 40 and 45 was reused in episodes 45 and 46 of SEED Destiny for the moon city Copernicus. UC styled colonies can be seen leaving the earth sphere in volume 1 of Astray... Even small sight gags like the "moustached haro" point to Fukuda's apparrent fondness of the whole series.

Of course, the official timeline also refers to the AD calender occurring before the CE, (the irony of this being that our current calender is now called "Common Era" in educational circles anyway), so there are some notable contradictions on the whole issue as well.

Now, with AC, FC and AW, it's a bit more open-ended. Bandai actually removed their AD calender references to keep in line with the possibility that they may still fit within the Turn-A history if I recall.


Really, at least from what I can gather, Tomino has kept silent on the matter and personally only acknowledged the series that he had created last I met him at the Chicago Film Festival, perhaps indicating that he simply could care less about other Gundam works as of now. I assume that, like with the Zeta movies and their effects in the timeline, he pretty much believes that fans can create their own conclusion on this whole matter.

[Mark064]

It's worthwhile to note that every current Gundam universe has been identified as taking part in the past of Turn A. Through the Turn A Gundam animation itself and the more recent manga in Gundam Ace every universe even CE is said to have been the past. In other words regardless of the way it goes Turn A is the end. And UC took place around 10,000 or 5,000 years ago depending on which version of Turn A you go on (movie or series).

Also AW never had an AD reference and it's past timeline never really had a name. I've seen it identifed as BW (Before War) but I have a hard time beliving it was really that and that is just a way to name it something. Though I'm not sure when the AD reference was removed from FC. And AC I'm really not recalling one right now.

[DAG101]

I forget where this was said, but '\-/ (Turn-A) is canon in its own universe' or something like that. it can be said about any gundam storyline: within said story, the story is entirely canon, even if in the main storyline, it is not.

[Mark064]

It is. Black History is canon in Turn A Gundam. It's part of the storyline and there is no way to doubt it really. This is what makes these kind of topics silly. As it's basically asking if you believe what it said in the show. Might as well ask if you believe any info stated in any show. >.>

[Annon Kaies Zi]

It is. Black History is canon in Turn A Gundam. It's part of the storyline and there is no way to doubt it really. This is what makes these kind of topics silly. As it's basically asking if you believe what it said in the show. Might as well ask if you believe any info stated in any show. >.>

I don't think you understand what he was saying. Basically, the fact that Turn A Gundam is the connection of the other series is canon in and upon itself. So in the anime Turn A Gundam, "Dark History" is very much canon. UC, FC, AC, and AW all happened before CC. However, outside of the Turn A Gundam universe, it's not officially canon. For instance, CE doesn't have to follow the Turn A Gundam theory. Nor does any other AU series that comes out from now on. So, again, "Dark History" is canon in Turn A Gundam, but doesn't have to be part of canon in any other series.

[WhiteWingDemon]

I do like how Turn A Gundam combines all the elements of Gundam metaverse and each universe is a part of cycle of destruction and rebuild.

The only problem is how can you directly connect each universe in chronological order?


My best guess is UC => AC => AW => FC => CC.

CE is not part of the cycle. It is truly an alternative universe and retelling of UC for the new generation.

You forget that at the end of Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz, it says "The weapon called Gundam was never used again." Therefore if there was any chronological order between Universes, After Colony would have to be the very last.