The Most _____ Moment in anything Gundam

[Dark Duel]

Oh man, gotta post this:

MOST "I'm sorry, what was that you were saying?" DEATH IN GUNDAM: Tubarov in Wing.

He's babbling about how "No one can compete with my mobile dolls!" and "I am invincible! MWAHAHAHA!", all while Wufei is effortlessy ripping apart the Virgo MDs...And then he dies when the Altron's "scorpion-tail" twin beam cannon vapes his little hidey-hole.

[muishkin]

Five most kickass moments in gundam

1. Uso paragliding towards the Victory corefighter. He runs across roof and jump off the edge and falls into the outstretching hand of Marvet. After that he hangs on for his dear life straddling the nose of the corefighter while being shot at.

2. Uso paragliding into Lt. Chronicle's shokew and then manage to take it over after it crashes into the water.

3. Kira Yamato makes his appearance in the freedom in the battle of Alaska.

4. Amuro crashing a passenger plane into a mobile suit in Zeta.

5. The appearance of Victory 2's wing of light.

Most "HECK YESSS!!!!!!!" moment: In GSD's Ep34, when Kira gets pwned on every conceivable level by Shinn.

Pwning is what Kira did to pretty much all mobile suits in gundam seed destiny. What shinn did was scoring an empty victory.

Most "GOD **** IT! THOSE ******s!!!!" moment"
Three of them, same series
1. Kira being alive and basically uninjured after an internal explosion the size of New York City and the subsequent surface impact.

Clearly this explosion was exaggerated to the extreme by the animation director. How else do you explain the fact that the Strike was for the most part intact after the explosion? If you look at the interior cockpit area the upholstery is melted but everything else is okay. Either way Kira surviving the self-destruction of the aegis isn't that farfetched imo. He is a luckly bastard for sure though.

[Dark Duel]

Hah, funny. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE STRIKE.
Read it again:
"Kira being alive and basically uninjured after an internal explosion the size of New York City and the subsequent surface impact."

1. Kira was severely injured after the Strike's explosion. I mean, he didn't even regain consciousness until at the very least 4-5 DAYS later.
2. The Strike and Aegis exploded on land and on the ground, not over water, so there was no subsequent surface impact.

I'm talking about the Freedom, obviously.

[muishkin]

Hah, funny. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE STRIKE.
Read it again:
"Kira being alive and basically uninjured after an internal explosion the size of New York City and the subsequent surface impact."

1. Kira was severely injured after the Strike's explosion. I mean, he didn't even regain consciousness until at the very least 4-5 DAYS later.
2. The Strike and Aegis exploded on land and on the ground, not over water, so there was no subsequent surface impact.

I'm talking about the Freedom, obviously.

Yeah I assumed you were talking about the destruction of Strike since that was the more improbable survival event. Surface impact is a pretty vague term that could mean over land or over water. The Freedom's NY city size explosion (once again exaggerated to the extreme by the animation designer) didn't even destroy it's upper torso which contained the cockpit. Given that I don't think Kira being uninjured is farfetched at all.

[ShadowCell]

Given that I don't think Kira being uninjured is farfetched at all.

Of course, this time it was the third time he had survived the destruction of his machine; the second time he had survived the Freedom's destruction specifically; the second time he had survived being in remarkably close proximity to a really huge freaking explosion; and the second time he had survived with no discernible major injuries. Plus how, after such an enormous and exaggerated explosion, he was magically revealed to have had his finger on the nuclear reactor's "off" button the whole time.

One miraculous survival? It's cliche, but okay, I can deal with that; sometimes fate smiles upon you and mere millimeters are enough to save your life. Two miraculous survivals? Now you're pushing it. Three miraculous survivals? I don't think so.

[muishkin]

Given that I don't think Kira being uninjured is farfetched at all.

Of course, this time it was the third time he had survived the destruction of his machine; the second time he had survived the Freedom's destruction specifically; the second time he had survived being in remarkably close proximity to a really huge freaking explosion; and the second time he had survived with no discernible major injuries. Plus how, after such an enormous and exaggerated explosion, he was magically revealed to have had his finger on the nuclear reactor's "off" button the whole time.

One miraculous survival? It's cliche, but okay, I can deal with that; sometimes fate smiles upon you and mere millimeters are enough to save your life. Two miraculous survivals? Now you're pushing it. Three miraculous survivals? I don't think so.

Yes the large explosion after Shinn had stabbed Kira is a gross error on the production team's part (more like artistic exaggeration since it's a show targeted at kids). The script of the show clearly included two scenes that directly contradict with the magnitude and the implied nature of that explosion i.e. Impulse being intact and the Freedom's torso also being intact. I usually tend to ignore errors of such nature since they aren't important to the overall show. If they had done the animation correctly GSD would just have one less animation error. It still wouldn't improve the show that much.

Kira surviving the destruction of Genesis in SEED was the only truly miraculous event. He had less than 2 seconds to haul ass out of there. Even if explosion was in the few dozen kiloton range Freedom would've received a huge amount of irradiated energy not to mention some really fast Genesis debris.

[ShadowCell]

The magnitude of the explosion makes no difference. The fact that Kira has survived getting the Aegis blown up in his face; has survived the Freedom being in GENESIS's line of fire and only partially getting out of it in time; and has survived the Freedom getting destroyed in DESTINY is what matters. If only one of those had happened, I'm sure we could all swallow hard and accept it, because cliche as it may be, sometimes these miracles do happen in the real world, in war and peace, and it's not so hard to believe. But he's managed to come back despite all odds not once, not twice, but three times. Who is that lucky? Gundam demands suspension of disbelief, but that's ridiculous.

[muishkin]

The magnitude of the explosion makes no difference. The fact that Kira has survived getting the Aegis blown up in his face; has survived the Freedom being in GENESIS's line of fire and only partially getting out of it in time; and has survived the Freedom getting destroyed in DESTINY is what matters. If only one of those had happened, I'm sure we could all swallow hard and accept it, because cliche as it may be, sometimes these miracles do happen in the real world, in war and peace, and it's not so hard to believe. But he's managed to come back despite all odds not once, not twice, but three times. Who is that lucky? Gundam demands suspension of disbelief, but that's ridiculous.

I disagree. The yield and the nature of the explosion makes a huge difference. All else being equal the survivability of the target only depends on how much destructive energy was delievered to it (Kira in this case).

Freedom was only severed in the GSD. What should have happened after is a tiny explosion (probably from a ruptured power conduit or something like that) that blows the torso away from the leg. This would fit more consistently with the next scene.

Edited: To summarize in two of those three events you mentioned by looking at the aftermath form of Kira' Mobile Suit I believe the on-screen explosions were erroneously done in order to mislead the viewers into thinking that the survivability of those events are low.

["Kamille! Kamille!]

Most creative moment in battle: when Kelly in the Val Varo grabs hold of the GP01Fb's legs and Kou separates the top of the MS (it has a core fighter, remember) and shoots it.

[Wedge14]

Most pause the DVD and rewatch a 1 second scene over and over again was in Char's counter attack when Quess' dad tells the Captain that theres plenty of openings in beach cleaners. Then the man raises his fist and shakes it like he's gonna hit him in the most overexagerated pose i've ever seen.

Then it cuts to something else. Then back to the captain and he's magically regained his composure.

[ShadowCell]

I disagree. The yield and the nature of the explosion makes a huge difference. All else being equal the survivability of the target only depends on how much destructive energy was delievered to it (Kira in this case).

And how are you going to determine the yield and nature of an explosion in an animated medium where the point of drawing an explosion is to tell the viewer that "hey, this is an explosion"? You can't. Refer to our rules in the Mecha and Technology forum, please, and bear in mind that you cannot scientifically analyze animation, because it is not objective. It's an explosion. It goes boom. That's about all the animators are going to tell you. And since just about every other explosion will kill a fully-grown human in this show (not to mention so very many others), Kira being such a special case as to survive this scenario more than once--bearing in mind, of course, that you cannot separate all these blasts into different categories, because you can't prove it, and so you cannot say that the yield or the nature make any difference--is not believable. What makes him so special as to get those stars to align in just the right way? Or, if you prefer, to be blessed with explosions that aren't of sufficient destructive force to harm him?

Man, that sounds ridiculous just typing it.

Besides, Kira, contrary to popular belief, is supposed to be a human being. I have a hard time believing, even if you could say that the animators cared about "yield and nature" and not just "does this look awesome?" in their drawings of explosions, that Kira could survive the "destructive energy" delivered to him by the explosions we saw him survive. Make it out of just one of those explosions in one piece over here in the real world and you're considered lucky beyond all reckoning.

Freedom was only severed in the GSD. What should have happened after is a tiny explosion (probably from a ruptured power conduit or something like that) that blows the torso away from the leg. This would fit more consistently with the next scene.

That was not what happened though. What happened was a huge blast, from either the Freedom or the Minerva's positron cannon, that wiped out a good deal of the Impulse and totally shattered the Freedom. You know, bits and pieces all over the place.

I don't see why this is up for debate. I mean, explosion. It goes boom. This is not the real world we're talking about here.

Anyways. To get back on topic.

Most dissatisfying Patriotic Sacrifice for the People: Anavel Gato running the Neue Ziel into a Salamis. I mean, come on. A Salamis. Fine, maybe the bullet in your side made it kind of hard to steer. Okay. Sure. But a Salamis. You couldn't go for anything more glorious than that?

[Shinji103]

Most dissatisfying Patriotic Sacrifice for the People: Anavel Gato running the Neue Ziel into a Salamis. I mean, come on. A Salamis. Fine, maybe the bullet in your side made it kind of hard to steer. Okay. Sure. But a Salamis. You couldn't go for anything more glorious than that?

What else was there? The only thing better was probably just a Magellan (iirc, there wasn't even one of those around there at the time), and those aren't really anything to go "SIEG ZEON!!!" over either. He picked the juiciest target (a dried out leaf, just his luck lol ) and ate it. ^^;

And I'm sure that fresh piece of shrapnel from his cockpit that had just lodged itself in his shoulder probably didn't help his steering either, lol. ^^;

[muishkin]

What I meant was that the animators clearly didn't think about what they were animating. Since the script meant for the survival of Kira hence the animator shouldn't have drawn any large explosions no matter how awesome it looks.

The Impulse was in proximity to the Freedom. If the explosion shown in the episode actually took place then the Impulse would've been blown to small bits along with the Freedom. The fact that both weren't blown into small bits is an unreconciled contradiction.


ME: (Wingnut) Only quote the part of the post you are directly replying to. Large quote blocks like that are an eyesore and don't illistrate what you are replying to. Keep this in mind when you quote someones post

["Kamille! Kamille!]

Most dissatisfying Patriotic Sacrifice for the People: Anavel Gato running the Neue Ziel into a Salamis. I mean, come on. A Salamis. Fine, maybe the bullet in your side made it kind of hard to steer. Okay. Sure. But a Salamis. You couldn't go for anything more glorious than that?

What else was there? The only thing better was probably just a Magellan (iirc, there wasn't even one of those around there at the time), and those aren't really anything to go "SIEG ZEON!!!" over either. He picked the juiciest target (a dried out leaf, just his luck lol ) and ate it. ^^;

And I'm sure that fresh piece of shrapnel from his cockpit that had just lodged itself in his shoulder probably didn't help his steering either, lol. ^^;

I agree; hell, he did a lot better than Haman.

[ShadowCell]

What else was there? The only thing better was probably just a Magellan (iirc, there wasn't even one of those around there at the time), and those aren't really anything to go "SIEG ZEON!!!" over either. He picked the juiciest target (a dried out leaf, just his luck lol ) and ate it. ^^;

And I'm sure that fresh piece of shrapnel from his cockpit that had just lodged itself in his shoulder probably didn't help his steering either, lol. ^^;

I know there were slim pickings for a glorious end, but the writers shafted him there. They didn't leave some glorious unscratched battleship like the Gray Phantom there for him to smash into, taking with him a shining example of Federation military power--no, he ran into the cannon fodder ship.

Man, Gato. Scah-roooooed.

What I meant was that the animators clearly didn't think about what they were animating. Since the script meant for the survival of Kira hence the animator shouldn't have drawn any large explosions no matter how awesome it looks.

Sure the animators were thinking about what they were animating. "Does it look big and cool?" Well, it looked big and cool. Whaddya know.

They're not making these shows so that the handful of fans who arm themselves with analytical minds can pick it all apart and say that Explosion X is sufficiently powerful enough to have Effect Y on Person Z. They make these shows, and animate them as they do, so that the average viewer gets the picture of what's going on. The average viewer isn't going to pause the DVD and get out the measuring tape and try to figure out just how much force something is blowing up with. Hence, the animators are not going to spend their time making sure every explosion, every battle, every event follows the laws of physics to the letter. They don't have time for that, and most people don't care anyway.

What they give us in an enormous explosion. The story calls for Kira to survive one--after he's survived others. I don't see how this isn't far-fetched. If you know a bunch of people who survive being practically in the middle of a gigantic explosion, tell me how they did it, because I want to be that indestructible too.

The Impulse was in proximity to the Freedom. If the explosion shown in the episode actually took place then the Impulse would've been blown to small bits along with the Freedom. The fact that both weren't blown into small bits is an unreconciled contradiction.

Of course, the Impulse hadn't had a bunch of parts blown off of it and didn't have a huge sword sticking through it, compromising its armor.

But, again, that alone should prove to you that when you look at that scene, you can't play semantics games with magnitude and yield and whatever. It's inconsistent. Hence, claiming that Kira can survive all of these explosions because "they aren't strong enough" runs up against the image you see on the screen, of a blast strong enough to wipe out the Freedom--which, naturally, should be enough to wipe out the Impulse, but did not. Hence, you can't try to finesse it as "not strong enough to kill Kira." The only way you can look at that scene--a scene that you're overanalyzing, frankly--is that the Freedom blew up, but somehow Kira magically survived. Again.

And that is what is so difficult to swallow.

[Dark Duel]

Freedom was only severed in the GSD. What should have happened after is a tiny explosion (probably from a ruptured power conduit or something like that) that blows the torso away from the leg. This would fit more consistently with the next scene.

BULL.
The sword went straight through the REACTOR.

And you talk of animation errors, then explain to me how the waist, right wing, the portion of the torso that was impaled, and both legs of the Freedom, were completely obliterated, and yet the upper torso and head survived?

The Impulse was in proximity to the Freedom. If the explosion shown in the episode actually took place then the Impulse would've been blown to small bits along with the Freedom. The fact that both weren't blown into small bits is an unreconciled contradiction.

Significant difference: The explosion originated within the Freedom's torso, at the point where the sword penetrated the reactor.
The Impulse was standing some meters away, so the explosion was in its case entirely external, and PS Armor provides a fair degree of protection against explosions.
So it seems much more plausible that the Impulse, given that other than a very small amount of damage to its head, was completely intact, that it suffered as much(or little) as it did.

[Wingnut]

Freedom was only severed in the GSD. What should have happened after is a tiny explosion (probably from a ruptured power conduit or something like that) that blows the torso away from the leg. This would fit more consistently with the next scene.

BULL.
The sword went straight through the REACTOR.

You can't prove that. There is no evidence that the impact went through the reactor. If it did, then we really would have had a nuclear explosion that would have anniliated both the Freedom and the Impulse for sure and fallout throughout the region. None of which happend. Thus there is no evidence that the Impulse ASS ever hit the reactor itself.

[zechsbidan]

BULL.
The sword went straight through the REACTOR.

You can't prove that. There is no evidence that the impact went through the reactor. If it did, then we really would have had a nuclear explosion that would have anniliated both the Freedom and the Impulse for sure and fallout throughout the region. None of which happend. Thus there is no evidence that the Impulse *** ever hit the reactor itself.

that being said, it's not even that it can't be proven that the reactor was hit, the evidence is much more that it -didn't- get hit.
however, i seem to recall that there was some warning thing going on the monitor as kira bled uncociously and sunk into the water-- something about a nuclear core overload, or something, which would explain the big explosion out of the water conveniently -just- after cagalli allegedly pulled kira into the archangel.

[Wingnut]

That explosion afterward was the Archangel intentionally detonateing one of its engine units to throw ZAFT off their trail long enough to escape the area.
As for inside the Freedom, that was the emergency shut off panel we were looking at for the reactor that the pilot could press if the reactor might overload or something else that might cause it to go boom. Kira activated that feature as a safety measure to prevent anything happening to the reactor. (Radiation leaks, explosions, etc.)

[muishkin]

They're not making these shows so that the handful of fans who arm themselves with analytical minds can pick it all apart and say that Explosion X is sufficiently powerful enough to have Effect Y on Person Z.

Yes I agree that the production team didn't design the show for any meaningful quantitative analysis but qualitative analysis is still possible.

They make these shows, and animate them as they do, so that the average viewer gets the picture of what's going on. The average viewer isn't going to pause the DVD and get out the measuring tape and try to figure out just how much force something is blowing up with. Hence, the animators are not going to spend their time making sure every explosion, every battle, every event follows the laws of physics to the letter. They don't have time for that, and most people don't care anyway.

Of course that is why I said the production team failed to convey what is going on to the viewers because the boom they drawn was way too large. If the boom was much smaller then most people would have an easier time accepting that the Freedom's upper torso being intact in the aftermath (Kira being alive is only a secondary effect of that). For example the production team would never portray a nuclear size explosion every time a mobile suit's limbs blew off. In other gundam shows there are cases in which the upper torso of a mobile suit was still intact with other parts blown off. Those were all portrayed convincely without any doubt so why couldn't the GSD production team done the same for the case of in episode 34. Oh yeah they went ahead with the ridiculously large explosion instead of thinking about "hmm what the hell does this mean for the next scene?"

Of course, the Impulse hadn't had a bunch of parts blown off of it and didn't have a huge sword sticking through it, compromising its armor.

But, again, that alone should prove to you that when you look at that scene, you can't play semantics games with magnitude and yield and whatever. It's inconsistent. Hence, claiming that Kira can survive all of these explosions because "they aren't strong enough" runs up against the image you see on the screen, of a blast strong enough to wipe out the Freedom--which, naturally, should be enough to wipe out the Impulse, but did not. Hence, you can't try to finesse it as "not strong enough to kill Kira." The only way you can look at that scene--a scene that you're overanalyzing, frankly--is that the Freedom blew up, but somehow Kira magically survived. Again.

And that is what is so difficult to swallow.

I am not trying to play the semantics game here. Like I said before they should've portrayed the mechanics of the explosion qualitatively different from a freaking nuclear fireball in order to fit it consistently with the scenes in the aftermath. It's not that hard. I think I used to have a real-life footage on my hard drive showing a plane with it's forward section blown off intact. Quite honestly I don't think it's tricky to draw that and it would greatly reduce the need for suspension of disbelief.

BULL.
The sword went straight through the REACTOR.

And you talk of animation errors, then explain to me how the waist, right wing, the portion of the torso that was impaled, and both legs of the Freedom, were completely obliterated, and yet the upper torso and head survived?

Wingut already made a rebuttal.

Significant difference: The explosion originated within the Freedom's torso, at the point where the sword penetrated the reactor.
The Impulse was standing some meters away, so the explosion was in its case entirely external, and PS Armor provides a fair degree of protection against explosions.
So it seems much more plausible that the Impulse, given that other than a very small amount of damage to its head, was completely intact, that it suffered as much(or little) as it did.

The magnitude of the explosion seem indicate that it's of a nuclear one hence even the most conservative estimates would not result in the survival of impulse. However that is not the point. Since I believe in the aftermath i.e. hence in my mind the production team made a gross error in the animation.