Aeolia Schenberg's plan to push human evolution

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False Prophet
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Aeolia Schenberg's plan to push human evolution

Post by False Prophet » Tue May 26, 2020 9:28 am

Hadn't Aeolia Schenberg been killed by Alejandro Corner, and the world unified under a peaceful government, how would he facilitate the evolution of humans to Innovators? We know that in about half a century, 40% of humanity had become Innovators? Was Aeolia aware of how fast this transformation occur, which started with just two GN Drives starting Trans-Am Burst, then the ELS assimilation?

I am wonder about the possibility that he might not be aware of that information at the time, and so had some kind of plan to make GN Drives more ubiquitous, thus accelerating the process. This can be an explaination to why there were Sakibure with GN Drives--Celestial Being revealing the technology behind GN Drives was to ultimately create more Innovators.

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Re: Aeolia Schenberg's plan to push human evolution

Post by Seto Kaiba » Tue May 26, 2020 10:16 am

False Prophet wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 9:28 am
Hadn't Aeolia Schenberg been killed by Alejandro Corner, and the world unified under a peaceful government, how would he facilitate the evolution of humans to Innovators? We know that in about half a century, 40% of humanity had become Innovators? Was Aeolia aware of how fast this transformation occur, which started with just two GN Drives starting Trans-Am Burst, then the ELS assimilation?

I am wonder about the possibility that he might not be aware of that information at the time, and so had some kind of plan to make GN Drives more ubiquitous, thus accelerating the process. This can be an explaination to why there were Sakibure with GN Drives--Celestial Being revealing the technology behind GN Drives was to ultimately create more Innovators.
Sustained exposure to GN particles is what turns regular humans into Innovators... so it's a safe bet that the original plan was for the gradual introduction of GN technology throughout the Earth sphere, had Alejandro Corner not been an enormous idiot and tried to manipulate things for his own gain.
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SonicSP
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Re: Aeolia Schenberg's plan to push human evolution

Post by SonicSP » Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:02 pm

As far as I could remember, one of the 00V Senki chapters mentioned that what specifically causes Innovation is GN Particles in Trans Am state. Ian mused he was a little worried about the ESF possessing this system after Season 2 because it can be abused.

Ribbons also wanted Original GN Drives by the late end of Season 2 so he can make his own True Innovators that he can control, after seeing how powerful Setsuna become according to the S2 novelization. He didnt need them though since he had Trans Am already but he didnt know it. All he knew was that the Originals definitely could do it.

Tieria's Monologue from the S2 DVD booklet notes that the second phase of the plan involving transforming humanity into Innovators but this was to be accomplished very slowly and gradually because of potential conflicts between the evolved and not evolved, like UC and Seed I suppose.

Considering the Innovator-Old Human Faction war happened Post-Movie even at a small scale, I imagine that concerns over frictions between Innovators and humans were justified. The Innovades were mentioned in Tieria's Monologue were tasked with facilitating the slow gradual change in Phase 2, and they got back to this after Season 2.

The first Dialogues To Come also happened way way way sooner than anticipated before humanity was ready so that probably threw an extra wrench to the Phase 2 Innovation timescale as well. It Innovated some extra people faster and made their existence known.

------

One thing of note is that Aeolia never envisioned that Jupiter would be needed for the GN Drives. That was a requirement only determined by later Celestial Being scientists. So maybe he originally envisioned them to be easier to make once they entered the Innovation phase.

The plan is a more of a general guideline than hard details except for some big things. Veda will accept a lot of solutions if it works towards the goal of the plan (Ribbons plan more or less meets the broad goals of the plan despite betraying their spirit).The Observers were there as a counterbalance to Veda in the organization, and they have the power to veto it by voting unanimously. They are set up there because Veda lacks the human element.

It is hard to say how Aeolia would have done it, but it really does not matter too much. As long as GN Drive tech with the Trans Am System is realized, they could do it even if manufacturing took a long time. This is even the case if Twin Drive System did not pan out due to it being an imperfect theory or imperfect components. They could even just take GN Condensers and Trans Am them then recharge them from GN Drives lying somewhere working 24/7.

My guess is that the world will be united by a world government, then Trans Am System and Twin Drive System would be released. They will use Trans Am for the Innovation element and Twin Drive System for high particle volume when used in conjunction. Trans Am Burst after all Innovated a lot of people from judt one usage.

I also reckon this was the main reason Trans Am System and Twin Drive System were locked away to begin with. Not just as as a valuable fighting tools, but as important elements in Innovation, the key glue of the Plan. They weren't really needed beforehand either but if something goes wrong, then the important systems would be released. Like the Gundam themselves, they also embody the double concepts of peace-war elements in the same machine that 00 likes to use thematically.

....probably a good thing Ptolemaios/Fereshte factions had all the GN Drives then during the system trap, otherwise. If the Innovator or Corner faction had captured at least one......ooo boy.

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Re: Aeolia Schenberg's plan to push human evolution

Post by False Prophet » Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:21 pm

SonicSP wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:02 pm
As far as I could remember, one of the 00V Senki chapters mentioned that what specifically causes Innovation is GN Particles in Trans Am state. Ian mused he was a little worried about the ESF possessing this system after Season 2 because it can be abused.

Ribbons also wanted Original GN Drives by the late end of Season 2 so he can make his own True Innovators that he can control, after seeing how powerful Setsuna become according to the S2 novelization. He didnt need them though since he had Trans Am already but he didnt know it. All he knew was that the Originals definitely could do it.

Tieria's Monologue from the S2 DVD booklet notes that the second phase of the plan involving transforming humanity into Innovators but this was to be accomplished very slowly and gradually because of potential conflicts between the evolved and not evolved, like UC and Seed I suppose.

Considering the Innovator-Old Human Faction war happened Post-Movie even at a small scale, I imagine that concerns over frictions between Innovators and humans were justified. The Innovades were mentioned in Tieria's Monologue were tasked with facilitating the slow gradual change in Phase 2, and they got back to this after Season 2.

The first Dialogues To Come also happened way way way sooner than anticipated before humanity was ready so that probably threw an extra wrench to the Phase 2 Innovation timescale as well. It Innovated some extra people faster and made their existence known.

------

One thing of note is that Aeolia never envisioned that Jupiter would be needed for the GN Drives. That was a requirement only determined by later Celestial Being scientists. So maybe he originally envisioned them to be easier to make once they entered the Innovation phase.

The plan is a more of a general guideline than hard details except for some big things. Veda will accept a lot of solutions if it works towards the goal of the plan (Ribbons plan more or less meets the broad goals of the plan despite betraying their spirit).The Observers were there as a counterbalance to Veda in the organization, and they have the power to veto it by voting unanimously. They are set up there because Veda lacks the human element.

It is hard to say how Aeolia would have done it, but it really does not matter too much. As long as GN Drive tech with the Trans Am System is realized, they could do it even if manufacturing took a long time. This is even the case if Twin Drive System did not pan out due to it being an imperfect theory or imperfect components. They could even just take GN Condensers and Trans Am them then recharge them from GN Drives lying somewhere working 24/7.

My guess is that the world will be united by a world government, then Trans Am System and Twin Drive System would be released. They will use Trans Am for the Innovation element and Twin Drive System for high particle volume when used in conjunction. Trans Am Burst after all Innovated a lot of people from judt one usage.

I also reckon this was the main reason Trans Am System and Twin Drive System were locked away to begin with. Not just as as a valuable fighting tools, but as important elements in Innovation, the key glue of the Plan. They weren't really needed beforehand either but if something goes wrong, then the important systems would be released. Like the Gundam themselves, they also embody the double concepts of peace-war elements in the same machine that 00 likes to use thematically.

....probably a good thing Ptolemaios/Fereshte factions had all the GN Drives then during the system trap, otherwise. If the Innovator or Corner faction had captured at least one......ooo boy.
Thanks for the detailed explaination? I wonder how did Aeolia planned for the Innovades to facilitate smooth transition? Given that there are Innovades who were made for purposes different than combat, I could imagine a mass infiltration of Innovades into the economy, media, academia, etc. who then used their positions to manipulate from the shadow.

Also, there is the matter of which form would the first manifestation of Trans-Am Burst be? I mean, GN Drives have always been planned to be first unveiled to the world with the Gundam. What if after Celestial Beings finished the first stage of their plan and a world government was established, but there was no A-Laws, no Katharon, and no civil wars? You can't surely create another Gundam with the Twin Drive System and Trans-Am Burst, because that would surely disrupt the peace, right?

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Re: Aeolia Schenberg's plan to push human evolution

Post by MythSearcher » Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:29 am

I'd say he didn't really have a full plan. That is why he created Veda, which will oversee the whole process and make adjustments when needed.
This is also where conspiracy comes into play. We all know that Veda can change the minds of Innovades, Ribbons thinks he has free will, but he doesn't. Veda can simply erase their memories or add in new information. Ribbons can be discarded immediately if he is deemed to be hurting the plan, but he is not. So Veda at least thinks he is not slowing down the process, or maybe even altered his views to stand in that position to speed things up.

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Re: Aeolia Schenberg's plan to push human evolution

Post by False Prophet » Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:58 am

What do you think Celestial Beings used to attract the Observers to their cause, especially the first benefactors who would never enjoy the fruits of their sponsorship? I mean, the daily cost of running Celestial Beings/Fereste must have been really big. Padding it out for two centuries, faciliting the cost of infrastructure, weapon, operation, etc. and you are talking about multination corporation-level of expense. How could Aeolia attracted so much money in the first place?

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Re: Aeolia Schenberg's plan to push human evolution

Post by SonicSP » Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:30 pm

False Prophet wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:58 am
What do you think Celestial Beings used to attract the Observers to their cause, especially the first benefactors who would never enjoy the fruits of their sponsorship? I mean, the daily cost of running Celestial Beings/Fereste must have been really big. Padding it out for two centuries, faciliting the cost of infrastructure, weapon, operation, etc. and you are talking about multination corporation-level of expense. How could Aeolia attracted so much money in the first place?
It is hard to answer that question without knowing the history of Aeolia's time. But I imagine its just a question of very rich idealists, and in the case of the Corner Faction they secretly wanted to dominate the world.

But really resources are not an issue because Veda just manipulates stuff. Veda is a powerful quantum computer, that means that it can hack into classical computers fairly easily if they are using traditional encryption methods. If they got enough early funding combined with Aeolia's super OP tech theories to create Veda first, then they can continually leapfrog everyone else after that.

Ian noted that they can make Veda manipulate the stock market in 00V Senki chapter 1 (Celestial Being were having serious resource issues) but he was reluctant to use that method cos he feels it is unethical.

Undoubtedly standard computers will get better over centuries but we know that Veda uses its powers to hack into things, and I remmeebr reading that Veda does get better itself over time. By stealing other people tech research, info and political manipulation, Veda can ensure that Celestial Being always has a competitive edge.

Considering that the public Jovian Expedition project was just a secret front for GN Drive research and production, Veda influence probably seaps far. Even the orbital elevators, which IS designed in universe by Aeolia also according to background text of Episode 2, also had Veda/Celestial Being handprints on it.

Celestial Being isn't just a small high tech paramilitary group, their full scale dark cabal secret conspiracy that has played a pivotal role in geopolitics and humanity for awhile.

The S1 novelization I recall reading described a few nuclear incidents that helped started the world towards denuclearization (this is why all the world's remaining fission materials are gathered in Taklamakan desert, as seen in the anime). While it never mentions whether Celestial Being caused those incidents, given Aeolia anti-nuclear stance, Veda probably at minimum milked the incidents for all their worth to make the nuclear-free world we see in modern day 00.

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Re: Aeolia Schenberg's plan to push human evolution

Post by MythSearcher » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:20 pm

SonicSP wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:30 pm
Undoubtedly standard computers will get better over centuries but we know that Veda uses its powers to hack into things, and I remmeebr reading that Veda does get better itself over time. By stealing other people tech research, info and political manipulation, Veda can ensure that Celestial Being always has a competitive edge.

Considering that the public Jovian Expedition project was just a secret front for GN Drive research and production, Veda influence probably seaps far. Even the orbital elevators, which IS designed in universe by Aeolia also according to background text of Episode 2, also had Veda/Celestial Being handprints on it.

Celestial Being isn't just a small high tech paramilitary group, their full scale dark cabal secret conspiracy that has played a pivotal role in geopolitics and humanity for awhile.

The S1 novelization I recall reading described a few nuclear incidents that helped started the world towards denuclearization (this is why all the world's remaining fission materials are gathered in Taklamakan desert, as seen in the anime). While it never mentions whether Celestial Being caused those incidents, given Aeolia anti-nuclear stance, Veda probably at minimum milked the incidents for all their worth to make the nuclear-free world we see in modern day 00.
Don't forget we get a scene where Veda can kill people who attained certain knowledge that can threaten the plan. This includes killing off researchers who discovered methods to develop technology that is comparable to CB's but does not join its cause. (Hey, he got killed just by looking at a wikipedia equivalent page of GN particles, and the contents is copied straight out of wikipedia's Baryon page ;9)

With Veda, CB really can't lose. Before you can develop any technology close to CB before Veda deems it is necessary, it can use too many methods to stop the research. Stopping your funding by coercing your sponsor or simply kill you.(Possibly invite you to join CB before trying to kill you as not to waste resources for efficiency measures)

Veda's monitoring is probably above Skynet, and while it is not as genocidal as Skynet, it seems to be able to utilize much more things to target and kill individuals(Including any smart devices and Innovades), and it is not likely to care about bystanders and people happen to be around because killing those off doesn't slow down the plan.

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