Von Braun and Moon Cities - Gundam

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DragoMaster009
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Re: Von Braun and Moon Cities - Gundam

Post by DragoMaster009 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:59 pm

How about just agreeing that even the animated TV shows don't fit together perfectly well (let alone everything else like movies, manga, and games), and just leave it at that?

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ShadowCell
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Re: Von Braun and Moon Cities - Gundam

Post by ShadowCell » Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:40 pm

that sounds just crazy enough to work

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MythSearcher
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Re: Von Braun and Moon Cities - Gundam

Post by MythSearcher » Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:43 am

Deacon Blues wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:55 pm

You'll have to point out which publications, exactly (I'm curious), utilize that terminology. Honestly, I've never seen 野史 used in publications before, and a cursory Google search doesn't yield much on that term (less than 10,000 hits), which is really weird. As for 異説, this is used in Gundam Officials a lot. The entire encyclopedia puts together conflicting information as well, so I don't get why you're holding the book to be the HOLY BIBLE of Gundam when information has changed since then. Heck, even the author who penned the Encyclopedia and put out those other smaller versions noted information that has changed over time. If you want to be "technical" this is how they classified material as of 20 years ago:
And does that help in any way?
I don't see it happening, you can refuse to accept even terms like "Another UC" or "異説" with your own reasoning.
You can definitely find a way to convince yourself to maintain your own view. Why waste both of our times?

I am using GO as the official account because it is sold and named as such. Isn't it obvious? Gundam Officials?

You might want to list the differences in Gundam Officials and things like Gundam Encyclopaedia Ver. 1.5 if you claim they are different. At least the timeline printed in the back seems to be just a reproduction.

Here's the thing though, you're stating a bunch of things as though they're fact. You told the thread starter that Origin is not canon, which isn't true. You really need to learn to how to say that it's not canon, in your opinion.
Here's the thing, my opinion is that they have a canon, so I will be claiming that as that.
You can keep your view thinking there isn't a canon, and keep telling others there isn't and don't have to label it as your opinion like you are doing here. So the same can apply to me.
Citation needed where they agree. Gotta back up your claims somehow if you are going to pull that card. I don't recall reading anything that indicates the prologue to 0083 is invalidated (at least not in GO).
The intro in 0083 has things happening backwards from the GO account, it is Gato who told Delaz about the sinking of the Dolos class, not Delaz telling Gato about the news. Which makes much more sense because that is Gato's mothership and he needed to resupply on it, landing on Delaz's ship is exactly because his mothership sank.

DragoMaster009
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Re: Von Braun and Moon Cities - Gundam

Post by DragoMaster009 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:11 pm

...are you two just trying to keep this idiotic argument going now? Look: Original MSG tv show, MSG movie trilogy, MSG 0079, and MSG Origin are all different viewpoints on how the main conflict in OYW went down, the truth lies somewhere in the middle of all four options. How does that work out?

Anyway, going back to the original point of this topic, when's the last time we saw an overcrowded colony or a slum area in one of the lunar cities in Universal Century Gundam?

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Deacon Blues
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Re: Von Braun and Moon Cities - Gundam

Post by Deacon Blues » Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:46 pm

DragoMaster009 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:11 pm
Anyway, going back to the original point of this topic, when's the last time we saw an overcrowded colony or a slum area in one of the lunar cities in Universal Century Gundam?
Well, we certainly have slums in the colonies (Shangri-La) and one could argue that where Kou was beaten up was a "slum" area of Von Braun.
And does that help in any way?
I don't see it happening, you can refuse to accept even terms like "Another UC" or "異説" with your own reasoning.
You can definitely find a way to convince yourself to maintain your own view. Why waste both of our times?
Why? Because honestly, I'm calling you out on your BS dude! If you can't even cite the publications that you so claim use that terminology your entire argument falls apart! It should be easy for you to rattle them off! Here is where things pose a problem for you: 異説 has nothing to do with something being "non-canon" or "alt-UC" as you so think it does. It literally means a different opinion/conflicting view.

You're holding on to a book that is two decades old. You're adhering to a view from the book that contradicts a show that was released in 1991! You're essentially breaking the defense of your own theory. But again, I'll continue to say it. Do not tell people that your own headcanon is factual when it isn't. You need to present it objectively if you want to share information with everyone. Instead, you inject too much into things or read too much into them, which I believe that Mark has called you out on in the past.

For what it's worth, the only terms that I've been able to track down were 準オフィシャル (Inoue), セミ・オフィシャル (MS Encyclopedia) and "semi-official history" 準正史 (Minakawa).

Although all of this is hilariously ironic when you think about it. Gundam Officials was compiled by Minakawa. It does not reflect what Sunrise says is official. But, what's even more ironic, is this:
There's actually a Wikipedia article on the concept of "official history" (正史). The corresponding Japanese Wikipedia page says the same thing - this means the "official version" of historical facts approved by a government. In Minakawa's books, this reflects the fact that the timeline is supposed to be written within the U.C. world and approved by the Federation government. If you wanted to use it in a fictional sense, it's more like "continuity" than "canon" - that is, the current official view of what did and didn't happen.
So there you have it. That's one way of spinning this whole entire debacle away.

But wait, there's more!

Years ago, Mark was kind enough to post what Gundam Officials own afterword says:
Faced with this situation, the copyright-holder Sunrise currently expresses the stance that "depictions in film have priority." Since Gundam originally began in film, and Sunrise is an animation production company, this is a very reasonable point of view. Much of the charm of the "Gundam world" comes from its abundant setting, but it would be counterproductive for a production company to let that limit the enjoyment of the filmed works.

Simply by attempting to seek consistency, one is likely to end up rejecting previous created material. There is a natural desire to clarify things that are ambiguous or contradictory. However, even if a limited individual person were to do this, they would be losing the abundance of the present "Gundam world" in the process.

The important thing is that the stance currently expressed by Sunrise does not negate everything except film. Rather than being managed like a bonsai tree, where the side branches are trimmed off, the "Gundam world" has a silhouette that follows the trunk called film - perhaps Sunrise's stance could be interpreted in this way. This is because, although Gundam takes place in many media, its roots are grounded in film.

"Gundam Officials" was written with the intention of supplementing this stance.
Fast forward to an interview from 2005, and you have:
So, what is the basis for saying what's "official" in the Gundam world? This magazine asked the well-known Koichi Inoue, head of Sunrise's planning and development office.

"The first thing we have to say is that, where the Gundam world is concerned, the true official--that is, what could be called Sunrise official setting--should, strictly speaking, be thought of as limited to the films and to things that appear in the filmed works.

However, even if they're not like the above, Sunrise supervises and gives publishing permission to books and games that deal with the Gundam world. Thus, in a broader sense, the original setting that appears in these could be called semi-official.

Doesn't everyone treat the Gundam works produced by Mr. Tomino, the creator of Gundam and in a sense its 'god,' as being official history regardless of medium?

From the beginning, even the TV series, movies, and novels of First Gundam all differed from each other. So even if you asked 'which is the real thing?' they were all supervised by Mr. Tomino, so it's hard to say which is the truth. (laughter)"
At any rate, I'm done arguing.

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