The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

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sdwoodchuck
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by sdwoodchuck » Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:42 pm

Yeah. He didn't save Hush this time. Telling him to retreat when he's mortally wounded and literally can't move would be some goofy-ass writing.

Mika acknowledging Hush is a checkmark in Mika's development. Hush's character arc is too abbreviated for what you're describing to work. He gets set on his goal, and then gets plopped into being a pilot and his arc abruptly stops. From then on, he's just the guy who always needs saving in fights, and Mika's legs outside of fights. When his final moment is being just as bad in battle again, and dying for it this time, it doesn't become character development for him when someone else says something comforting to him.

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yazi88
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by yazi88 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:23 pm

I noticed that Hush made a good number of mistakes which did lead to his demise...

1. He wasn't paying attention which he said himself of course.

2. He went out in the Hekija which is a specialized MS for Space Combat, as its a high mobility unit, I'm also basing this on how the high mobility suits in IBO that the high mobility suits are for space only. If it had to function on ground I'm guessing that it needed to be configured with different equipment like the Rourei which had different packs for space and ground mode. The Graze/Reginglaze is also another example as it has different thrusters for earth and space.

3. This is not a mistake but Hush has been lucky so far, the only time he got to shine was against Jasley's forces and he had the advantage because of his suit, not really his skills. And even then IIRC he had assistance from Shiden forces too. He's only had about 4 actual combat sorties: 1. Earth with Shiden. 2. Jasley's forces. 3. Space battle against Rustal's forces. 4. Tekkadan's last stand on Mars. He's had to rely on Mika or someone else to bail him out when he's in trouble which also happened in the Jasley battle. While yes he is a supporting character, that doesn't mean anything in the end if he's a mediocre pilot and screws up...

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by domino » Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:26 pm

Hush's character arc is too abbreviated? Ok it seems like you were one of the writers.

Hush was critically wounded but Mika stopped the final killing blow. That's always how he saved Hush. True, this time he was a little too late.

Btw you need to rewatch the series regarding Hush. He ALWAYS fantasized about being like Mika to the point of wanting to risk his life for AV surgery. This was inspired by his own sad past. He changed his mind after experiencing the hardship of battle and became a counter-mirror to someone like Zack who is ultimately rather realistic in his ambitions (often taking the time to call everyone crazy to keep rushing into battle regardless of the risk). The fact that he chose to help Mika instead of replace Mika was to show he embraced the Tekkadan way of life. That's why he also stayed when Orga said anyone could go. His admiration of Mika changed from jealousy to sensei-student until eventually he was granted pilot status with his own exclusive unit. Unlike his original plan, he did not earn it via a selfish desire to become a pilot but by committing to Tekkadan. Therefore, Hush dying for Tekkadan while also receiving the recognition of his sensei speaks volumes - he committed to Tekkadan instead of to his original vision of being the "hero", Mika recognized him AND he died as a pilot protecting others (the escaping Tekkadan crew).

Do yourself a favour and rewatch the series and quit trying to twist words on others. For instance - you said Mika was comforting Hush. I didn't. So you can't now use "comforting" to dismiss my assessment. Don't be silly.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by yazi88 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:36 pm

I think Hush has come a long way in the end compared to how he was in the beginning of season 1, he started off as a glory hound and was all bark with no bite. Yes he wanted to prove he was worth something after seeing his gang leader off himself in his backstory. But he got a dose of reality in his 1st battle and saw Mika as a inspiration to be something, if anything as strong person in battle. So he attaches himself to Mika and becomes more reliable and bonds with Mika too, although Mika is blunt like always but dismisses him less, not that Mika can help it after the MA battle. While there could've been more development for him, he did grow as a character and I was satisfied with it.

In the end, Hush proved himself to be something, of some use to others, rather than a "street rat" and dying off with no one caring like countless other kids living in poverty in Mars, he appreciated being with Tekkadan especially like all the other kids, he had no one and nothing to go back to.

You can't blame the majority of Tekkadan members for staying with the group, even if its retreating to Earth or facing demise at the hands of Gjarrhorn, they have nothing left to go to, there is no decent employment, they would have died on the streets like countless other kids, and they were taken care of and looked after in Tekkadan. They are loyal to Orga and what he did for them, even though Orga screwed up by making a deal with McGillis for the King of Mars thing, it didn't matter as Rustal would still wipe them out as he said in his conversation with Orga. Its most likely because Rustal wants to get back at Tekkadan for standing up to Gjarrhorn in season 1 in the Dort Colonies and in Edmonton.
Last edited by yazi88 on Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by sdwoodchuck » Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:46 pm

domino wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:26 pm
Hush's character arc is too abbreviated? Ok it seems like you were one of the writers.
Saying his character arc was abbreviated is just general criticism; it has nothing to do with "being one of the writers." If you're going to take a childish tone about a simple discussion and disagreement on a television narrative, then I'm not sure what to tell you; that's silly. I'm not making your hangups my problem.

As for the rest of your post, I disagree. Hush gets a strong character push early, and then they never really handle his character arc beyond that. He makes a few minor shifts along the way in his rhetoric, but the character writing just isn't there, and his shifts don't really affect the plot in any meaningful way, let alone enough to justify his screen time. You could cut Hush out of the series entirely with very little lost, and a lot more screen-time gained for characters who actually matter to the story they're telling.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by domino » Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:02 pm

Err....you realize Hush is a side character, just like Zack and the big dude right? It seems you wanted Hush to be a significant player somehow.

Sigh, this is why I and others have given up debating with you. You're trying to reinforce your view by saying it's bad writing. It is what it is.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by sdwoodchuck » Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:10 pm

I definitely didn't want him to be a major player--I was of the opinion that Season 1 already had a slightly bloated cast, and I'd have preferred less newcomers. I'm fine with Hush being a side character; I'm just saying he's not a particularly well-written one. It's a pretty simple statement; if people disagree, they can disagree, and we can discuss it. People here (well, two of you) seem to take disagreement as somehow being antagonistic, when it's really just discussion. Again, I'm not making that hangup my own. As far as I'm concerned, we're talking about a TV show that we watch, and we disagree on the quality of different elements of it, and that's about the extent of it.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by domino » Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:19 pm

sdwoodchuck, you're either a troll or just silly. Re-read your posts. You've focused and obsessed over Hush for a few pages now. Your only rebuttal? It was bad writing and the writers probably were forced to change their original plans. That's the strength of your ability to "discuss".

Moving on...

With Gaelio having his revenge and him previously declaring that he bears no ill will against human debris anymore then I wonder if he will just sit out the rest of the operation. As much as he might not agree with Rustal's methods, it's unlikely that he would betray Rustal since that would mean betraying his father and family.

Julieta being the final foe against Mika still seems like a weird match-up. She's going to have to also take down at least 3 other experienced pilots, one of them piloting a Gundam. One can only assume that she not only has special equipment but is willing to play dirty like Rustal tends to do in order to win the day. She had no problem with the use of the Dainslef afterall.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by yazi88 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:19 pm

I'm not being antagonistic with you sdwoodchuck, but you seem to try hard to make your opinion a fact, especially with the writing part of the show. Its one thing to disagree with the writing of the show, its another thing to say the writing should have gone like this because you think it should have and call it bad writing when it didn't. You kept insisting on things like McGillis being the antagonist and screwing everyone over and it didn't happened, and you blame the writing for it.

I'm really sorry if I offended you but that was never my intent...
domino wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:19 pm


With Gaelio having his revenge and him previously declaring that he bears no ill will against human debris anymore then I wonder if he will just sit out the rest of the operation. As much as he might not agree with Rustal's methods, it's unlikely that he would betray Rustal since that would mean betraying his father and family.
The problem I see with that if Gaelio doesn't do anything against Rustal, then he shows he never cared about the corruption in Gjarrhorn and that he ends up being a toadie to a war criminal and happy with the status quo, and in a way proves McGillis right about wanting to reform Gjarrhorn.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by X_zoro » Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:48 pm

sdwoodchuck wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:42 pm
Yeah. He didn't save Hush this time. Telling him to retreat when he's mortally wounded and literally can't move would be some goofy-ass writing.

Mika acknowledging Hush is a checkmark in Mika's development. Hush's character arc is too abbreviated for what you're describing to work. He gets set on his goal, and then gets plopped into being a pilot and his arc abruptly stops. From then on, he's just the guy who always needs saving in fights, and Mika's legs outside of fights. When his final moment is being just as bad in battle again, and dying for it this time, it doesn't become character development for him when someone else says something comforting to him.
And this here is the Main Problem IBO has ,Hush died way to soon ( it was not his time) unlike the rest of the cast that got a lot of screen time, he didn't get enough to justify his character death, Hush character was meant to be the grunt soldier that works hard and it seem like that what they wanted to do when they made him work his ass off to be a good pilot ( even Dane said "noticing your faults is a sign of a good pilot" ) The reason he got killed was BS too they didn't have time to set the Mobile suit for ground combat really ? but they had a enough time to work and Beal, Barbatos and a few shidens ? its really dumb when you think about it ( honestly this isn't even Hush's fault just bad writing )

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by yazi88 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:52 pm

Hush's demise might be related that the Hekija is a high mobility suit that was meant for space battles, its not as effective in ground battles, and Hush wasn't that good of a pilot either, he also did the dumb mistake of fighting alone with no support nearby and didn't pay attention which he said himself. The Gundams and Shidens are general suits that are good in any field, the Landman rodi is optimal for ground combat but can function in space ok. But the Hekija with its high mobility mode and extra thrusters is not useful for ground battle. I'm guessing it would've been the same result if he was in a Shiden. While I am sad Hush is gone, its pretty much the end of the show, and lots of death going to happen, no one is safe, even if you're out of combat.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by sdwoodchuck » Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:45 pm

domino wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:19 pm
sdwoodchuck, you're either a troll or just silly. Re-read your posts. You've focused and obsessed over Hush for a few pages now. Your only rebuttal? It was bad writing and the writers probably were forced to change their original plans. That's the strength of your ability to "discuss".
"Obsessed"? Are you under the impression that a person can't focus on an element of a narrative without being obsessed with it? Especially when that's the element of the narrative that's being discussed? Is verbosity somehow indicative of investment? I'm serious here, is that your understanding of how discussions work?

Also, I never said that they probably had to change their plans. I offhandedly mentioned that I suspect that's the case, because a lot of the writing in the series doesn't add up for me. I may be 100% wrong about that; I'm fine with that.

It's funny, I elaborate on my points; I get accused of "obsessing." Then the next paragraph, I'm told that I "only say it's bad writing." Look, if you have questions about why I feel the writing is bad, ask them. What you're doing right now is silly and childish. I'm here having a discussion; you're just trying to "win an argument." I have no interest in that.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by BrentD15 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:47 pm

Show
Anyone else feel like Gaelio was saying goodbye to Ein after killing McGillis? When we got that close-up of that red lens reflecting Gaelio's face, it seemed like he was telling an old friend to rest after a hard-fought battle.
"To you who will watch, I offer a heart filled with gratitude." -Yoshiyuki Tomino, Gundam Reconguista in G, Episode 25

sdwoodchuck
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by sdwoodchuck » Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:50 pm

yazi88 wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:19 pm
I'm not being antagonistic with you sdwoodchuck, but you seem to try hard to make your opinion a fact, especially with the writing part of the show. Its one thing to disagree with the writing of the show, its another thing to say the writing should have gone like this because you think it should have and call it bad writing when it didn't. You kept insisting on things like McGillis being the antagonist and screwing everyone over and it didn't happened, and you blame the writing for it.
1) I didn't say you were being antagonistic. I said that you seem to take disagreement as antagonism.

2) Supporting an opinion is not "trying to make an opinion fact." Supporting an opinion is discussion. All criticism is subjective. All judgment of quality in the arts is subjective. It doesn't carry a different intent, because the opinions are supported.

3) I'm not calling the writing bad because it didn't go the way I wanted. You are AGAIN making assumptions. I've speculated about how the series would go, and my speculations were wrong. That's fine. My calling the writing in the series poor has nothing to do with it not going the way I wanted it to go. Opposite way around, actually--my speculation was based on thinking the writers were better than to waste so much screen time on stuff that wind up being narrative dead ends. That is not the same thing as thinking "this didn't go the way I wanted it to so it's bad." Stop making this assumption.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by SNT1 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:58 pm

I like a good internet sparring session as much as the next guy, but everyone seem to be getting a little too heated up. Anyways. 8)
Err....you realize Hush is a side character, just like Zack and the big dude right? It seems you wanted Hush to be a significant player somehow.
He was built up to be a little bit more than just a "side character" in the first 5 or so episodes, with a lengthy flashback scene added in... then he became a human walking stick. This is fact.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by yazi88 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:12 pm

Alright, I apologize if it seemed that I took our disagreement as antagonism, and sometimes discussions do get a bit heated, I can own up to that.

Its just some of your speculation goes a bit overboard sometimes without some of it seeming plausible, like Angnika talking down the mobile armors in the Calamity War...

Maybe its best to move on to another topic... anyone notice Orga/Eugene's white Shiden has the shoulder shield of the Garm Rodi? I found it amusing that Eugene who is the one of the top guys in Tekkadan, still gets mocked by the younger kids. lol

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by domino » Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:31 pm

yazi88 wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:19 pm
domino wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:19 pm

With Gaelio having his revenge and him previously declaring that he bears no ill will against human debris anymore then I wonder if he will just sit out the rest of the operation. As much as he might not agree with Rustal's methods, it's unlikely that he would betray Rustal since that would mean betraying his father and family.
The problem I see with that if Gaelio doesn't do anything against Rustal, then he shows he never cared about the corruption in Gjarrhorn and that he ends up being a toadie to a war criminal and happy with the status quo, and in a way proves McGillis right about wanting to reform Gjarrhorn.
That's true but Rustal also saved his life. Gaelio is loyal. I assume that he was unsure at first of what role to play hence why he took on the mask and "Vidar" persona to hide until he was sure what action he wanted to take. He made his decision to be Rustal's puppet after he left Earth.

It is funny that Eugene gets mocked by the younger Tekkadan crew for his lack of battle experience. That is inline with the theme of IBO - the importance of family (or as we said before it's a mafia/mob story). Eventhough they're facing despair, they will face it as a family.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by AmuroNT1 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:38 pm

Maybe what'll happen is Gaelio will turn on Rustal, but not in a military sense. Because he's a first-hand witness to the kind of shady underhanded dealings that have been going on, he could reveal this to the world and get Rustal discredited in order to force Gjallarhorn to take accountability for their actions.

I dunno what he'll do, but I can't see him staying 100% loyal. Not after this past episode.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by nacho-wan » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:23 am

This episode really made me feel bad for McGIllis. He was an extremely lucky child that got the opportunity leave the streets, have a better than average education, a fulfilling job, have friends and possible a love interest. Had he being able to go beyond his childish delusions of grandeur he could have it all.
Show
Instead he decides to go in a forgettable blaze of glory after his ridiculous plan blows up on his face, after dragging all those loyal soldiers, who believed in his cause. The worst part is that he will never rest in peace, as he has to atone in the next life for all the treachery he did to those closest to him.
As for the other characters:
Gaelio: his character arc is fulfilled. He has no more narrative fuel. So he gets to be a background character for the final episode.

Julieta: she decided to fight as a human in opposition to Mika, who became a monster to protect his family. I bet that she will survive the series and tell us about the immorality of Tekkadan. She did it this episode, but got cut short by Rustal. She might fight in her original Reginzale and have a fair battle with an already battered Barbatos.

Rustal: he is not the final bad guy, he is just the stand in for the establishment. The big joke on IBo is that there is no definitive villain. There wasn't one in the first season, there is none in the second either. It's about Orphans in a crapshot world and how they try to survive in the dirt.

Tekkadan crew: all the guys in MS die in battle - even Mika- to buy time for the junior members, who will live happily in Earth after Tekkan is presumed dead in their final standoff

Bonus: Mila's child will be named Orga
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Although a thousand million people accept an absurd idea, it still is an absurd idea
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Kuruni » Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:13 am

Well, what's better for sequel movie/OVA (assume that it get one)?

1. If Rustal survive the show, then it's one of the darkest endings in Gundam. The world get back to how it used to be, all major bad guys alive and well (even Izanario probably get back to his throne with a new boy on his side). Tekkadan become villain in history and its members are liekly to be scatterred.

2. If Rustal going to be dead, then...Iok will be in charge since he's the highest rank in Arianrhod now.
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