The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by SNT1 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:47 am

nacho-wan wrote:This episode really made me feel bad for McGIllis. He was an extremely lucky child that got the opportunity leave the streets, have a better than average education, a fulfilling job, have friends and possible a love interest. Had he being able to go beyond his childish delusions of grandeur he could have it all.
Maybe it's just me, but I think you missed one little detail that made him into what he is.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by SonicSP » Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:05 pm

Kuruni wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:13 am
Well, what's better for sequel movie/OVA (assume that it get one)?

1. If Rustal survive the show, then it's one of the darkest endings in Gundam. The world get back to how it used to be, all major bad guys alive and well (even Izanario probably get back to his throne with a new boy on his side). Tekkadan become villain in history and its members are liekly to be scatterred.

2. If Rustal going to be dead, then...Iok will be in charge since he's the highest rank in Arianrhod now.
Rustal probabaly, he's not too bad most of the time whereas Iok does crazy things the moment he has power, as precedent has showed.

Gaelio is the best chance for a reformation of Gjallahorn though his time might not be now, which may also be why he likely won't play the main bad guy role in any future entries.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by yazi88 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:40 pm

Its amusing that neither Orga nor Eugene have never piloted mobile suits and Eugene is piloting a mobile suit at the last battle for the 1st time, I'm assuming he kept up with training in the suits. Orga only piloted a Mobile Worker only a few times, like the battle of Edmonton to cheer for Mika and rushing towards the Hashmel before Mika went full power with the Lupus. I don't think Orga ever connected the Hoturabi or Isarabi to his AV system... Eugene did that during all the major ship battles with the ships moving.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Chris » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:08 pm

nacho-wan wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:23 am
This episode really made me feel bad for McGIllis. He was an extremely lucky child that got the opportunity leave the streets, have a better than average education, a fulfilling job, have friends and possible a love interest. Had he being able to go beyond his childish delusions of grandeur he could have it all.
So did you miss the part about him being beaten and raped repeatedly by Iznario? How was he a lucky child?
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by nacho-wan » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:56 pm

Chris wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:08 pm
nacho-wan wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:23 am
This episode really made me feel bad for McGIllis. He was an extremely lucky child that got the opportunity leave the streets, have a better than average education, a fulfilling job, have friends and possible a love interest. Had he being able to go beyond his childish delusions of grandeur he could have it all.
So did you miss the part about him being beaten and raped repeatedly by Iznario? How was he a lucky child?
...hmmm I might have missed that part, but still he was able to move from dying poor and became a player in the world stage. For that he was lucky.
Aun cuando mil millones de personas acepten una idea absurda, sigue siendo absurda.
Although a thousand million people accept an absurd idea, it still is an absurd idea
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by SNT1 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:04 am

nacho-wan wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:56 pm
...hmmm I might have missed that part, but still he was able to move from dying poor and became a player in the world stage. For that he was lucky.
I can't even possibly fathom anyone in McGillis' situation can be considered "lucky". I don't want to get too much into debate on this but I'm sorry but I believe his situation is effed up in the worst way.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by sdwoodchuck » Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:45 am

Yeah, I can't consider the victim of child rape "lucky" to be in their situation, even if the alternative is desperate poverty.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Chris » Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:19 am

nacho-wan wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:56 pm
...hmmm I might have missed that part, but still he was able to move from dying poor and became a player in the world stage. For that he was lucky.
If you think being beaten and raped by a serial sexual predator is better than being poor, you have a really twisted definition of what "lucky" is.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by domino » Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:49 am

When we consider McGillis' traumatic past, it's a bit easier to understand some of his actions

1. He married Almiria to protect her and not as a sexual/love interest. He saw his younger self in her - trapped in a world that will force her life along a certain path without giving her the option to choose her destiny. It was better for her to be married to him than to a pedophile. He wouldn't abuse her the way he was abused

2. He idolized Tekkadan and led the rebellion the way he did because he held onto his childish vision of becoming the next Agnika Kaieru. This is represented in his head-on tactics, simple negotiations and even his desire to use a mask. He also truly believed that with the Bael Gundam in his possession that every thing would fall into place - eventhough he did expect Rustal to continue opposing him.

3. He sided with Tekkadan because he thought that they (and expecially Mika) could show him how to truly become Agnika Kaieru. Yes he wanted to use them in his schemes but with his childhood dreams seemingly so close to fruition, he was willing to follow them blindly because he thought it was his "destiny". That's why he convinced himself it was better to try to take on Rustal's fleet on his own rather than remain on Mars when Tekkadan turned out not to be willing to play the role he envisioned for them.

Rustal was right. McGillis truly was still a "child"

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by yazi88 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:29 pm

McGillis married Amelia as a way to gain power from Gaileo's family and support, plus it was arranged by Iznario, but McGillis does not hate her and doesn't really want to use her as a tool. He even took a attack from her on purpose. She would've been fine staying under her father. She was never in any danger, unlike his awful past.

It was Mika's strength with the Barbatos that reminded McGillis of Angnika rather than Tekkadan as a whole, he used them to help his goals rather than out of genuine partnership, as he said to Isurugi before he launched to fight the Hashmel, he wanted to show them they were below him in terms of power and control, it was just 2 groups allying because they have common enemies, rather than a shared goal. Tekkadan just benefited from cooperating with McGillis until Rustal turned everything against them. But he did feel genuine kinship with them to a extent as they have similar upbringings to him as a child.

Maybe McGillis was naive to take on Rustal, but no one else was willing to do it, Gjarrhorn is corrupt and has strayed far from the organization it was meant to be, we've seen how many atrocities are committed in both seasons by Rustal and other members just to further their own ambitions. Yes McGillis was pursuing a childish dream, but he was also honest about taking down the corruption too, he just wasn't good enough and lost.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Zeonista » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:05 pm

Given the events of the past several episodes since McGillis Fareed made his announcement, I am reminded again that many of the seminal Japanese heroes of history & legend are beautiful losers. To wit, they fail in their earthly goals, but their accomplisments and honor redeemed in blood make them enduring, inspirational symbols for future generations. Those who profit by their downfall have their own glory diminished, and the accomplishment of the betrayers' earthly goals somehow never works out in the long run. I mention this because from the home audience POV, Tekkadan are already heroes of the After Calamity era, and their current heroic immolation against Gjallarhorn is the capstone on their legend. Rustal Elion may return to Earth and boast of his triumph, but the people of Mars and the industrial colonies will remember and cherish their heroes, and honor the steel rose that does not wither.

I would not put McGillis Fareed on the same level as Tekkadan, and the people of Mars no doubt would agree. If Orga & Mikazuki are representative of Kusunoki Masahige, he is the worldly-wise yet idealistic Go-Daigou, both the cause of their elevation and their downfall. But he is a beautiful loser in his own right, if not as high-minded or clean-handed as Tekkadan. Coming to the Fareed family from the outside, McGIllis saw the separation of the rulers from the ruled, and the deliberate ignorance (or outright exploitation) of that separation in maintining a peaceful status quo where the few lorded it over the multitudes. Instead of cynically enjoying his own status and assuming the role his adoptive father-mentor planned, he tried to bring justice to Mankind. If he failed, it was not from lack of courage or resolution. Maybe a lack of appreciation of how far Gjallarhorn had sunk from its own standards, or guessing at how far Rustal Elion and the others would go to preserve their status, smugly confident that the masses would not know or care what happened. Maybe he ran out of luck, or pushed his luck too far, and hubris is a common heroic failing.

Which now leads me to wonder what the final ending of this story will be. It is pointless to speculate further on the battle, since without Orga or McGillisin the lead the MS pilots of Tekkadan can only die in a blaze of glory as their comrades & loved ones flee to live another day, and pass on the true story of events. Maybe MIkazuki can make it to Rustal's ship and use it to light his Viking funeral, but that won't change the result of the battle. So, Tekkadan go out like the beautiful losers they are, Fareed's body is chucked out the airlock like trash, and Rustal Elion likely takes the submission of Mars and returns to Earth feeling pleased with himself. The End. And yet.... I am uncertain if Gjallarhorn has truly won the day for the status quo.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by domino » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:20 pm

Interesting perspective Zeonista

I do think it's entirely possible but besides a few instances, I don't think we've really seen the public referring to Tekkadan as heroes.

We do know there's a lot of discontent at how Gallajhorn runs things though

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Outlaw » Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:37 pm

A prediction:
Rustal bites it and Gaelio ends up as the "leader" of Gjallarhorn, possibly even taking out Lord Rustoleum himself.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by AmuroNT1 » Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:27 pm

I did have a funny "April Fools" ending in mind.

Mikazuki actually does end up getting absorbed into the Barbatos, Gjallarhorn brings it in, and when Rustal comes to get a look at "Tekkadan's White Demon", it springs to life and swats him like a fly.

...Oh, and Iok suffers a fatal case of diarrhea or something.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Kuruni » Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:56 pm

We do get a final MA, and it's actually a Brave Series' unused villain bent on controling humanity (exactly what sdwoodchuck want), with human-like face that calling each of its attack!

Of course, when all seem loss with Barbatos' "mask" break open, all of the remaining Gundams (no matter how badly damaged they are) come to its aid and comebine into the Lemegeton Gundam. The incomplete form (because there're less than 72 Gundam now) of the Solomon Gundam that still has enough power to one shot the final MA.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Arsarcana » Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:46 am

AmuroNT1 wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:27 pm
...Oh, and Iok suffers a fatal case of diarrhea or something.
Best. Ending. Ever.

But more seriously, at this point Gaelio and Julieta are the most likely avenue for any kind of immediate reform within Gjallarhorn and a 'good guy victory' in anything beyond a moral sense. Mika could go on a one man rampage in the last episode but that won't change a thing in the big picture and would be throwing away Orga's final wishes so I don't see that as being terribly likely.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by AmuroNT1 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:07 am

I don't see Julietta doing anything of significance, really. She's essentially Gjallarhorn's equivalent of Mikazuki, the soldier who unquestioningly obeys their boss out of loyalty, and that's gone completely unchallenged up to this last episode where Rustal admits to being one of the "bad men" that she hates so much. But I still don't see that overriding her loyalties to him or triggering a desire to change Gjallarhorn.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by yazi88 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:59 am

Definitely a more unique and surprising ending for the Gundam franchise with IBO's ending... almost had me tearing up a few times...
It did not end the way I thought it would, although with the way the show was going it's pretty plausible and makes sense...

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by sdwoodchuck » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:06 am

Yeesh. I was expecting it to be bad, but I wasn't expecting quite THAT bad.

Overall, I feel like Season 1 started strong, meandered a lot through the middle, and then picked up again at the end. I know the early parts of Season 2 aren't well-liked by many but I enjoyed it up until the last four episodes or so. I don't think it's the worst ending in Gundam, but it's definitely on the short list of those that will live in infamy.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by latenlazy » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:41 am

The intrinsically conservatives politics of this series was always my biggest problem with it, and that came to bear in full relief for this epilogue. The neo-romantic idealism that ties together the conclusion is almost sickening in its whitewashed and throwaway contrivances. Next to the broader body of ideas and themes that this franchise has explored, this ending is easily one of the most harmful and cynical messages to ever come out of a Gundam series. It's almost shocking how problematic and regressive this conclusion is, despite its finer sentiments, which are used as cheap emotional hooks to sell its utter nonsense.
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