The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by yazi88 » Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:52 am

Loop_Stratos wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:36 am
yazi88 wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:02 am
Well....
Show
Nobliss was the one who ordered the hit on Orga, it wasn't a surprise given how much of a backstabber and shady guy he was, but surprisingly enough, McGillis died too, gravely injured and outside the Bael, but not before wrecking a lot of havok on Rustal's fleet, Kimaris Vidar got damaged a lot too but Gaelio might turn things around against Rustal, or maybe not... Sadly Hush died too, but given the deaths around the end of the show its to be expected.
Where'd you get this?



I saw the ep, that's how I knew.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by sdwoodchuck » Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:12 am

Hahahaha, wow, the writers really did get completely lost this season, and barring some last episode miracle, are limping, tripping, and stumbling across the finish line. That is a really sad outcome for a series that actually had better writing for most of its run than a lot of recent efforts.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Loop_Stratos » Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:19 am

yazi88 wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:52 am
Loop_Stratos wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:36 am
yazi88 wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:02 am
Well....
Show
Nobliss was the one who ordered the hit on Orga, it wasn't a surprise given how much of a backstabber and shady guy he was, but surprisingly enough, McGillis died too, gravely injured and outside the Bael, but not before wrecking a lot of havok on Rustal's fleet, Kimaris Vidar got damaged a lot too but Gaelio might turn things around against Rustal, or maybe not... Sadly Hush died too, but given the deaths around the end of the show its to be expected.
Where'd you get this?



I saw the ep, that's how I knew.
Not out yet for me, but I'm guessing on the TV.
IMO

This is just a block of text. Move on.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Loop_Stratos » Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:57 am

Saw the episode.
Show
-Mika can lead.
-How can they fight like that under those circumstances? It is exactly because of that, doh! >.>
-Rip Hush, you didn't stand out but you had to be an example death.
-Rip McGillis, you should've just enjoyed life with your wife.
-"Their Place"? Sounds like Heaven. Heck it fits what Orga said to Mika.
IMO

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Swithin » Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:01 am

sdwoodchuck wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:12 am
Hahahaha, wow, the writers really did get completely lost this season, and barring some last episode miracle, are limping, tripping, and stumbling across the finish line. That is a really sad outcome for a series that actually had better writing for most of its run than a lot of recent efforts.
Seconded. In fact, I'm a little bit miffed that you expressed my feelings so perfectly that I had to quote you. I wanted that chance at catharsis. :/

It actually seemed like everything was on track up through about episode 45 - on track, that is, for a strong ending given ten more episodes to wrap it up. I'd love to see the alternate universe version of this show where the writers, on realizing they were running out of blue sky, asked for an extension or a third season and were granted it. I wonder if IBO has done well enough to warrant an Evangelion style re-do of the finale via OVA.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by The Green Flame » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:37 am

HahahahahaHAHAHAHAHA THE IRON MASK STRIKES AGAIN!

All things considered this episode wasn't stellar by any means but Galieo vs McGillis was definitely the highlight. I actually thought their final exchange was really nice as well as the fight itself. Looks like ol Julietta is on the chopping block for the finale though.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by X_zoro » Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:08 am

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:( :( :( :( :( ZOINKS NO NOT HUSH HE DIDN"T HAVE TO DIE !!!

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Chris » Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:30 am

People, we have spoiler tags and they've been fixed. Please be sure to USE THEM.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by X_zoro » Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:36 am

Chris wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:30 am
People, we have spoiler tags and they've been fixed. Please be sure to USE THEM.
Sorry Chris my bad was in a state of shock, I'll remember next time

on Topic tho
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If the Rustal's group actually wins i will be pissed

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by domino » Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:04 am

Shocker episode for me!
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I never expected McGillis to die before he even got the chance to face off against Rustal. I'm disappointed that all he did with Bael was slice and dice....really, no ranged weapons at all? I'm sure it has electromagnetic cannons. Still, he went out in a blaze of glory. Rustal seems to be the one with the good luck because Nobliss was actively seeking to find extra favour and Rustal's choice to let McGillis and Gaelio fight go on one-on-one was ultimately a good call. He can now use those results as propaganda for his future endeavours. Gaelio played his role perfectly.

Hush dying is symbolic that the next generation of Tekkadan has no future.

I'm sad that Mika's final fight will be against Julieta instead of Ein or McGillis. It's somewhat insulting but this in my opinion raises the likelihood that Julieta will be piloting a Gundam (whether or not its Flaurios)

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by yazi88 » Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:10 am

In the end
Show
McGillis didn't have a master plan via resurrecting a MA nor betray Tekkadan after all, I don't really understand why there was a lot of speculation McGillis would betray Tekkadan because it doesn't match his actions throughout both seasons, aside from luring Carta towards them in season 1, but that did benefit them and their revenge.The only people he betrayed is Gjarrhorn which was his intention from the beginning. And given his awful childhood and his dialogue with Mika, he has more of a connection to them, plus they have saved his life earlier too on Earth against Galan. And he was right in his crusade to try to take down Rustal, but as much of a schemer he was, he wasn't a tactician like Rustal who outmanuvered him completely, and he paid the price for it.

To me he was a anti-hero and not the villain some people kept insisting he should be in the end. He wanted power to change the world and that isn't a bad thing, but it also depends on how power is used, while yes there might've been a possibility he might be a tyrant had he won, there might've been a chance he could turn Gjarrhorn from its awful current form into a decent organization and keep the peace in a better manner, unlike how Rustal has been committing various war crimes as the top dog of Gjarrhorn.

I think Gaileo can come around and redeem his character after McGillis's death which was his sole driving plotline. Now he has no reason to put up with Rustal's crap and put a end to him and achieve McGillis's goal of reforming Gjarrhorn.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Amion » Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:21 am

yazi88 wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:10 am
In the end
Show
McGillis didn't have a master plan via resurrecting a MA nor betray Tekkadan after all, I don't really understand why there was a lot of speculation McGillis would betray Tekkadan because it doesn't match his actions throughout both seasons, aside from luring Carta towards them in season 1, but that did benefit them and their revenge.The only people he betrayed is Gjarrhorn which was his intention from the beginning. And given his awful childhood and his dialogue with Mika, he has more of a connection to them, plus they have saved his life earlier too on Earth against Galan. And he was right in his crusade to try to take down Rustal, but as much of a schemer he was, he wasn't a tactician like Rustal who outmanuvered him completely, and he paid the price for it.

To me he was a anti-hero and not the villain some people kept insisting he should be in the end. He wanted power to change the world and that isn't a bad thing, but it also depends on how power is used, while yes there might've been a possibility he might be a tyrant had he won, there might've been a chance he could turn Gjarrhorn from its awful current form into a decent organization and keep the peace in a better manner, unlike how Rustal has been committing various war crimes as the top dog of Gjarrhorn.

I think Gaileo can come around and redeem his character after McGillis's death which was his sole driving plotline. Now he has no reason to put up with Rustal's crap and put a end to him and achieve McGillis's goal of reforming Gjarrhorn.
Couldn't agree more, Yazi, I just wish we'd have gotten to this conclusion sooner plot-wise. This episode should have been, by all rights, LAST week's episode. seriously now, they wasted so much time thus far and now we have officially run out of... well, plot.

IBO needed to seriously redefine it's objectives. What were they? Marie Okada admitted her inspiration was boys getting covered in dirt. What do we have as our finale? A bunch of boys excavating a tunnel :lol: Seems to me I must apologize to Marie, as she's actually not far off from her inspiration. But should inspirations be goals? Should a series focus on the inspirational image alone? I think not, at least not when it comes to a bunch of orphans playing in the dirt. :evil:

To me, IBO always felt like it was limping along since very near the beginning. It picked itself up during the Hashmal arc but the writers never followed through on fights or development. On a purely mecha-porn level, they completely and intentionally avoided showing off the Gundam Vidar, a personal issue for me, even when there was absolutely no reason I can think of not to have it get a shot at Mega Skarmory. And sadly, that arc was the most action-packed. the rest of the series seems to avoid battles like a disease. On a purely entertainment level, that's bad for a mecha show, that sometimes lives and dies by its fights, no pun intended, honest. :|

Well, we can predict who will die next episode, but at this point the whole cast could go and I'd really not care. While Destiny had a horrific and unacceptable ending I still enjoyed its first 34-37 episodes (even the Chess filler episode) more than I ended up IBO. It didn't feel like a waste of time, just potential. IBO feels like an exercise in futility. The entire show demonstrates this, in my opinion, with awkward ques and fetishes that it doesn't even take seriously, such as Kudelia and Atra. This ending feels like a horrendous conclusion (barring a miracle, which I'm still hoping for) to an already exhausted body of work.

Fafner in the Azure demonstrated hopelessness in a compelling way, and then sent hope dashing in to chop it up through the tears. IBO, however, is hopeless, depressing, and lacking in enough intensity to sell it. It projects a languid pace, yet attempts to present the dynamic and bombastic in its second season. The first season projected a sense of urgency, yet this too didn't mix properly with the all-pervasive lethargy. Even the blues music didn't create a proper atmosphere on most occasions (speaking of, today's soundtrack for the Bael vs Kimaris Vidar fight was absolutely brilliant).

The reason I and others, I assume, wished for a surprise Mobile Armor awakening was because it was the last twist that could up the tension. That, technically, could still happen, but there's precious little time now for it, or anything else, for that matter.

I wish the staff had taken a different route from the epic saga and instead focused on a more seedy, down-to-earth work about Teiwaz and Tekkadan's jobs for them smuggling weapons and whatnot. Of course, there would be run-ins with the law of space, Rustal Elion (who's name even sounds like a sheriff to me).

It would have had a more languid, Bebop pace to suite the lethargic motion of the pacing. Make it episodic and we could have had a classic setup with plenty of action and down to earth moments the writers seemed to love so much, all rolled into a package devoid of unnecessary "Grand Schemes" or convoluted plot.

And this ending, of the "space pirates" getting cornered at last, would feel FAR more appropriate an ending to this kind of series, rather than to a Gundam show that tried to deal the "Reform and Revolution!" card. again...
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Kuruni » Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:51 am

Actually, Nobliss didn't order to kill Orga. His hitmen act on their own, although he does has them spy on Admoss Company.

Good use of morality chain trope. Mika understand Orga enough to follow his final will instead of goes berserk. That being said, it look like he'll use final clock up.
Spoiler
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Poor Hush, ultimately he doesn't reach his potential. He actually does well there consider that Hekija isn't optimized for land combat yet.
Ultimately Bael is a mundane but high performance suit, no flashy gimmick.

I think Gaelio finally understand McGillis, now that he himself has to denie their freindship since it will weaken his resolve. Damn, that whole scene make him come off as a yandere yaoi guy.
Spoiler
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I just hope that now his "personal issue" is dealt with, Gaelio'll prove to Rustal that he still has some sense of moral.
Why Atra still wear Tekkadan jacket?
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by phillosmaster » Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:00 pm

Swithin wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:01 am
sdwoodchuck wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:12 am
Hahahaha, wow, the writers really did get completely lost this season, and barring some last episode miracle, are limping, tripping, and stumbling across the finish line. That is a really sad outcome for a series that actually had better writing for most of its run than a lot of recent efforts.
Seconded. In fact, I'm a little bit miffed that you expressed my feelings so perfectly that I had to quote you. I wanted that chance at catharsis. :/

It actually seemed like everything was on track up through about episode 45 - on track, that is, for a strong ending given ten more episodes to wrap it up. I'd love to see the alternate universe version of this show where the writers, on realizing they were running out of blue sky, asked for an extension or a third season and were granted it. I wonder if IBO has done well enough to warrant an Evangelion style re-do of the finale via OVA.
I feel bad for you guys. I haven't been this engaged with a Gundam show in a long time. It's too bad it's falling flat for you guys.

I hope nothing like a redo happens. Because that sounds awful. This is the path we've been going down since the beginning of the season.
Show
So Mcgillis didn't have anything up his sleeve. He was exactly as he appeared to be up until this point. I really like that. It makes his character sad and pathetic especially since he killed his best friends and sacrificed his subordinates to get here. Though I mean even in season 1 where he was wearing that ridiculous disguise that Mika easily saw through he was kinda the same way even back then. He was just a kid playing a field owned by the real puppet masters like Nobliss, Rustal, Makanai... this is all sort of a larger version of the Earth arc from earlier in the season with Takaki, Aston and Galan.
Even as we speak, the stealth bombers of the Brotherhood of Dada are swooping silently overhead. They’re using stealth bombs which level whole cities without even the slightest trace of noise or damage. Nothing remains of the world you knew and still you stand in the ruins, acting as if nothing has changed.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by domino » Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:07 pm

phillosmaster wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:00 pm
I feel bad for you guys. I haven't been this engaged with a Gundam show in a long time. It's too bad it's falling flat for you guys.

I hope nothing like a redo happens. Because that sounds awful. This is the path we've been going down since the beginning of the season.
I agree

Gundam IBO is the first series since V Gundam that made me get emotionally attached to the characters as much as the mecha. The art and designs are top notch and while it has been exposition heavy, it all paid off in credible characters who're ultimately flawed - and sometimes pay for their flaws.

As a result, we're all deeply invested in the finale hence the varied emotional responses.

Regarding the deaths: the writers have made it such a habit to have tragic, senseless deaths that "almost" seem escapable (ie why did that person have to die? Couldn't it be in a (better) blaze of glory??) that they must be doing it all on purpose.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by SNT1 » Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:57 pm

Hahaha, this episode probably has done more character development for certain guys than the first 23 episodes of S2. I loved it.

+Mika. He's going nuts against Gjallarhorn, don't get me wrong. But it's not a wild, berserker Mika, but of pure, calculated brutality.

+Eugene. I've always wanted to see him in an MS given how crazy he is in a worker or in a ship, but there's a good chance he bites it. It's a free-for-all in the last episode now.

+Hush. I liked that he had the attitude in this battle that he suddenly forgot since the Galan Mossa arc. I hate that he also bites it, but I like this better than IBO's typical "Look at me! happy music and flashback! I will die nao!" death flag. Mika does care for him, but even with Orga and Hush, he doesn't seem to loose cool like some have predicted will happen here.

+Speaking of death flags... Fareed-Bauduin III. DID NOT DISAPPOINT. ALL-OUT BRAWL. props to Rustal for being Gjallahorn and respecting the duel. It came down to who can stab the cockpit better, apparently. McGillis never figured this out, (he missed another clean cockpit stab, ladies and gentlemen) and eventually getting knocked out by way of drill bit. I gotta give props to Macky though... I think he has had more kills than Mika in a single battle (not including the current battle Mika is on), and looked more dominant in the grunt-wiping fest with less, two swords, that in my opinion isn't really much compared to Barbatos' toys.

So the Bael, cool unit, but fairly basic. No MA tricks or anything like some of us (including me) have predicted, just a high performance basic unit beaten by a unit that has been armed to the teeth and specially prepared to defend against the Bael. And McGillis, anti-hero to the end. I've predicted that he genuinely admires Tekkadan for the most part, even pulling a Eugene in his Fareed class ship, and there was no betrayal in his part against Tekkadan. And I like it that way. There was no way that he could pull anything off, even if he cleanly destroys the Kimaris he's a dead man walking anyway. Clealy a suicide mission.

-Gaelio? Come on man, you got your revenge. What are you going to do now?

+Julietta recovered quicker than I thought... and that crazy bitch mechanic is so smarmy that she may have cooked up something for a finale between... Mika and Julietta? None of us could have predicted that at the start of S2.

Overall, I enjoyed this episode, but from purely an action standpoint. Sucks that macky and Hush had to die... wouldn't even be surprised if anyone in Tekkadan even survives this whole ordeal.

But what's the end goal here? Rustal wins and corruption and old money prevails, and the poor and Debris remain in hiding and poor (should they survive?) Talk about a grim end if the moral of the story is "Don't start revolutions and just let the oligarchs/aristocrats rule"
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Amion » Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:26 pm

The ending we should take away is, clearly, serve Rustal-sama. Butterflies, anyone?
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by sdwoodchuck » Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:46 pm

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There's a way to do McGillis as the anti-hero that doesn't involve poor writing. That's not the direction the writers went with it. They decided to have a sociopathic back-stabber one season become a shockingly ignorant righteous dope the next. If there's nothing to Bael but a symbol, then he's entirely stupid to get the MS and think the world would unite around him. It's entirely stupid for the writers to create the setup for that and then just sort of flop over and "whoops, it's actually nothing." Not just in terms of power (because that's also bland writing), but as a symbol, and as a narrative device, Bael falls completely flat. You've got the sociopathic manipulator turned righteous dope flying around in a legendary mobile suit that belonged to a legendary historical figure, and all of them--McGillis, Kaieru, Bael--had so much narrative setup that just kind of gets farted out. It's doubly a shame because I'd have preferred him as a troubled anti-hero rather than the villain, but they utterly failed to tell that story.

But that's a problem that goes well beyond McGillis. You've got Hush, a character that was also given quite a bit of setup, who starts with a narrative push that peters out mid-season, and now just gets killed offhandedly. He has this obvious intent for his character starting out, striving to become a pilot, wanting to live up to a memory, and then nothing comes of that narrative setup. It's just "yep, you're a pilot now, character arc done. You can spend the rest of the season carrying Mikazuki out of battle, and being carried by him in battle." This narrative false start is time that could have been used to develop the laughably bland villain. Rustal doesn't even get the narrative false start that the others have. He's just token evil guy. "I have all the power and I intend to keep it mwahahahahaha"--that's his character. That's the entirety of his character. And no, "ruthless tactical genius" is not part of character development. You can have a ruthless tactical genius who actually has some character drive other than writer whim--but IBO, apparently, can't.

I fully suspect some heavy rewriting went into this season, and I doubt this is the ending they envisioned. We'll probably never know on that, but the alternative is that the writers were always this bad, and I just don't see that. As it is, Takaki and Aston were the writing highlight of the season, and that's kind of embarrassing.

Also, and this is silly nitpicky junk, but apparently it's part of mobile suit cockpit design SOP that you include just enough crush-resistance to allow the pilot a few minutes of bleeding out so that they can rattle off a choking death monologue. Not enough to save anybody, oh no, but just enough to give them a final moment of philosophical BS so that their teammates can go "<you're name here>? <YOU'RE NAME HERE>?! Argh!"

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by yazi88 » Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:55 pm

Yeah... I'm not gonna bother telling sdwoodchuck anymore to stop talking as if he knows what the writers are thinking... just because its not the way he wanted things to go does not mean the show was rewritten or not what the writers had in mind... Over speculating and over analyzing... You can just say you don't like how things went, not the "I know its not what the writers wanted because I think so route without any proof"...

Its not worth arguing over again...

I wasn't a fan of how things turned out, but I can't blame that on faulty writing, IBO has its number of Gundam tropes, but also altered some in ways people didn't see coming which I appreciate. McGillis was going to betray Tekkadan and that Orga was gonna go power crazy in the end right? Nope, neither happened and their actions and the narrative has shown us why.
Last edited by yazi88 on Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by sdwoodchuck » Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:05 pm

But it is worth making goofy passive-aggressive assumptions again, apparently.

"Over speculating" doesn't enter the equation, and it's petty for you to assume it does. I'd have loved for them to take it in a completely unexpected direction, if they'd have managed that with some actual quality storytelling. But yeah, I do like for the entertainment I spend my time on to have some quality to it. When it fails--especially when it fails to live up to the potential it sets early on--I'm going to be the first to say so. If that offends you, then by all means, do us both a favor and actually stop responding rather than doing this passive aggressive "here's a response to say that you're not worth responding to" nonsense.

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