Zeta Gundam Part II Planning Notes

[doghunter1]

Was it true that for Zeta Gundam's sequel, Tomino had these in mind before the show became ZZ:

1. A guy named Elbow Smash.

2. Char coming back to be the antagonist.

3. Both the Axis Zeon and Earth Federation leadership getting wiped out just before Judau and Char have their climatic final showdown, with Judau winning by being the "True Newtype" and convincing humanity as a whole to finally abandon Earth.

[Gelgoog Jager]

The only one I had heard before is the part about Char being meant to return in ZZ. The idea was scrapped was CCA was greenlit and at that point Glemy's character was decided to take the role Char was supposed to have in the story.

On a related note, I suspect that the red Qubeley used by Ple Two was a leftover design from then and was probably meant to be used by Char. In ZZ this unit only appears briefly before being destroyed, but I think it's better than not appearing at all, as in the case of Jerid's unused yellow Baund Doc.

Anyway, another change I've heard about is that Axis/Neo Zeon forces were supposed to mainly use many Zaku variants, from which the Zaku Mariner and Desert Zaku (ZZ ver.) were part of, but that idea was also scrapped and the design of the Zaku III was most likely modified at that point considering that it differs a lot from the aforementioned units.

[doghunter1]

The only one I had heard before is the part about Char being meant to return in ZZ. The idea was scrapped was CCA was greenlit and at that point Glemy's character was decided to take the role Char was supposed to have in the story.

Personally speaking, I'm not buying that Char was planned to return for Zeta's sequel, because wasn't he writing Hi-Streamer, which had Char as antagonist, at that point?

[Chris]

The first two are correct. Mark Simmons has mentioned Elbow Smash, I believe way back in the old Gundam Project site. From some notes I have, Char was supposed to come back and instigate a Neo Zeon rebellion, and I believe he was supposed to kill Haman and then be the final boss for Judau. As Gelgoog noted, Glemy was quickly drafted as a Char stand in once Tomino got the approval to CCA, hence his inexplicable transformation from useless moron to rebel leader. I'll have to dig through my computer at home and see if I still have that info.

[Arbiter GUNDAM]

Elbow Smash? That cannot possibly have sounded cool even in Tomino's head?

[Chris]

Ok, here's some info about Zeta Gundam Part II translated years ago by RGZ of Gunota Headlines.

Which centers around a 13 yr old boy Judau Ashta a story where you see Judau become a MS pilot fighting against Haman's Independent Force Manibaring. Judau becomes first newtype (don't ask me what this means) and leaves a msg to the Earthnoids and leaves for Mars. The story starts out similar to ZZ. Scirocco is dead and EFF becoming pro-AEUG with Haman aiming for Earth. Bright and Emma (she isn't dead) were able to secure a place in Shangria to do repairs. Camille is taken to a hospital. Judau is apparently a bad kid, who is part of a bike gang called Gigaa. Judau successfully stole Zeta after fighting Bright and Emma then Haman's independent force Manivaring entered the colony. First, Judau agrees to destroy Ahgama after talking with Manivaring. However, Fa and Emma convinces him and he ends up protecting Ahgama. Anways it becomes Judau in Zeta vs Manivaring inside the colony with Emma piloting Mk II as well. Roux shows up from La Vie En Rose and Elbow Smash shows up. Elbow is an AE technician. Oh ya, members of Gigaa joins Ahgama crew.

Apparently Gigaa and Ahgama crew don't like each other. Emma might die (don't ask me). Haman and Bright met or got close enough to have a dialog. Bright rejects Haman's offer about agreeing to the Zabi family's return. Judau kicks all the weak members of the Ahgama crew to La Vien Rose and now Gigaa controls Ahgama. Next is a plan to retake Shangria. Apparently Bright and Ahgama are successful at the retake. Behind the scenes Char helped out with this as his last salute to the crews of Ahgama. Camille becomes missing and Fa returns to Ahgama.

The scenario switches to Earth, where Bright heads there to talk with the Earth Federation Forces. The EF official tells him, "Char is going to monitor Haman." in response to Bright's displeasure about giving Haman Side 3. Judau becomes pissed and punched the EF official. Judau is jailed. Amuro, Hayato, Beltochika came up a plan to rescue Judau and do so. From them, they hear Camille is at Hong Kong (doing something. sorry the kanji is too blurry). Haman laughed at Bright and Judau's debacle. Ok, Haman Kahn's dictatorship started and she began to purge any that resisted. She also worked on a plan to take over Earth. Judau and Roux infiltrates the colony and is suprised at the fact they don't feel Char's presence. They only feel Haman's dictatorship. Judau recognizes that Haman is going after Earth. So he decides to kidnap Mineva but fails. Haman's force centering around Axis heads toward Earth.

EFF panicking asks for any help. It says that Fa might become the next Emma (Fa bitchslap!). It also says that Char hasn't killed Haman because he was too busy commanding a force responsible for assassinating all of Earth Federation high officials. After the EF government passes a legislature giving a go sign for Space Migration, Char joins Haman's force. Mineva is happy about Char's return. Char kills Haman when her force was about to attack Earth. During this Bright rescues Mineva. In the last battle, the whole world sees Judau's NT thingy. Judau apparently says something like "being selfish won't free the people and Char's way is selfish too". Char agreed to what Judau said and he actually has a long quote here (which I don't feel like translating, something like people being able to understand each other and able to conquer space, blah blah blah). Camille heard this. The story ends with Judau joining the Mars exploration and Mineva going to Earth.

[balofo]

It would still have the majority of the bad ZZ parts we got...

We can only pray for a good retelling of ZZ like GOL and 0083 Rebellion.

Another funny thing is that ZZ hasn't been in a SRW with its story being played since the first Alpha.

[AmuroNT1]

Elbow Smash? That cannot possibly have sounded cool even in Tomino's head?

Think of it this way: Most people believe that anything sounds cooler in a foreign language. You could read from the Japanese phone book, and most anime fans would think that it sounded like a badass DBZ or Naruto attack.

Well, the effect also works in reverse, with the Japanese thinking that English words and phrases sound cool by default. This is, of course, how we get things like Fei from Gravion Zwei, whose post-battle catchphrase is "Jack off!"

[Quiddity]

Tomino's given us Engrish names like Shot Weapon, Marvel Frozen, Kitty Kitten, Full Flat, Carrying Cargo, etc... not to mention numerous characters whose names seem like random syllables thrown together (Mian Ku Ha Ascher, Zou Habel Gande, etc...).

Elbow Smash is not that out of the norm for him.

[ShadowCell]

besides which Elbow Smash is in fact objectively awesome, we need more Gundam characters named after pro wrestling moves

[yazi88]

I can already picture TOMINO WRESTLE-MANIA with ELBOW SMASH vs TURBO BROCKEN!

[False Prophet]

Wait an minute! You said that Tomino got the green light for CCA so he scrapped ZZ's original plan. So it must mean Hi-Streamer/Beltorchika Children was pretty much conceptualized before ZZ entered production?

Somehow it make ZZ sounds even more like the "appendix" of UC that Tomino tried to cut.

[zetatype]

Wait an minute! You said that Tomino got the green light for CCA so he scrapped ZZ's original plan. So it must mean Hi-Streamer/Beltorchika Children was pretty much conceptualized before ZZ entered production?

Somehow it make ZZ sounds even more like the "appendix" of UC that Tomino tried to cut.

Do we actually know when CCA was green lit?

[doghunter1]

Wait an minute! You said that Tomino got the green light for CCA so he scrapped ZZ's original plan. So it must mean Hi-Streamer/Beltorchika Children was pretty much conceptualized before ZZ entered production?

Somehow it make ZZ sounds even more like the "appendix" of UC that Tomino tried to cut.

This is what I mean about what Tomino intended post-Zeta. Plenty of discrepancies on what Tomino wanted to do with Char after Zeta ended.

[Kuruni]

Tomino's given us Engrish names like Shot Weapon, Marvel Frozen, Kitty Kitten, Full Flat, Carrying Cargo, etc... not to mention numerous characters whose names seem like random syllables thrown together (Mian Ku Ha Ascher, Zou Habel Gande, etc...).

Elbow Smash is not that out of the norm for him.

And IMO, 00S2 has even more ridiculous names like Revive Revival, Hiling Care, Bring Stability, and Anew Returner.

[Quiddity]

Tomino's given us Engrish names like Shot Weapon, Marvel Frozen, Kitty Kitten, Full Flat, Carrying Cargo, etc... not to mention numerous characters whose names seem like random syllables thrown together (Mian Ku Ha Ascher, Zou Habel Gande, etc...).

Elbow Smash is not that out of the norm for him.

And IMO, 00S2 has even more ridiculous names like Revive Revival, Hiling Care, Bring Stability, and Anew Returner.

Agreed. When I was watching Gundam OO recently for the first time I thought to myself (jokingly) if Tomino was involved at all with naming the Innovators since their names were so ridiculous. Bring Stability might be the champ for the most ridiculous name.

[Heaven Piercing Man]

And consider it's even more ridiculous, since it's actually "Stabity"

[Gelgoog Jager]

I just realized that if Emma was supposed to be alive on ZZ, it means that the first version of ZZ was scrapped before Zeta Gundam finished, since they certainly went out of their way to show Emma dying during the last couple of episodes. I think it's safe to assume that this situation might have provoked other changes to the last few episodes of Zeta Gundam.

[Zeonista]

besides which Elbow Smash is in fact objectively awesome, we need more Gundam characters named after pro wrestling moves

I am certain Elbow Smash will get his chance for a mecha anime debut in a forthcoming Heavy Object episode.