The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk II

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:57 pm

Oh hey, look: Tekkadan actually failed to accomplish something! Too bad it's something that'll really only impact one character, but it's a start.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by Kyuzo Aoi » Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:17 pm

I think Tekkadan had to fail once in that mission.
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Maybe the Barbatos getting the Gusion armor as we thought might be more bearable after all. Kudal makes Ali al-Saachez and Yazan Gable look like a paragon of sanity.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by Deacon Blues » Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:05 pm

Kyuzo Aoi wrote:I think Tekkadan had to fail once in that mission.
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Maybe the Barbatos getting the Gusion armor as we thought might be more bearable after all. Kudal makes Ali al-Saachez and Yazan Gable look like a paragon of sanity.
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How do you figure? I'd rate Ali a hell of a lot higher on the scale of bad than Kudal. Kudal hasn't really done much of anything aside from smack a couple kids, yell at them, threaten them then (as I see it) accidentally kill one of the kids in the group. Well maybe it wasn't so much an accident than anything. It wasn't a cold blooded killing like Saji's sister after all.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by Kuruni » Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:14 am

balofo wrote:Every kill so far but the point blank range smoothbore gun shot was a mace/sword to the cockpit(Gusion Hammer got one too).

Even grunts are invincible to ranged weapons until the script calls to Mika kill them with a mace/sword to the cockpit. There will never be any tension.
And it is something actually established in the setting, isn't it? With nanolaminate armor make range weapons much less effective than melee. It still work, just not reliable for killing blow. Fact that both grunts and custom suits follow the rule is actually a good thing, really.
balofo wrote:Calamity War will likely never be touched upon.
That doesn't has to be bad thing. Something is way better to be used as myth-like background, and actually see it can ruin the expectation.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by Laevatein » Mon Dec 21, 2015 6:10 am

balofo wrote:Every kill so far but the point blank range smoothbore gun shot was a mace/sword to the cockpit(Gusion Hammer got one too).

Even grunts are invincible to ranged weapons until the script calls to Mika kill them with a mace/sword to the cockpit. There will never be any tension.

And ships can tank point blank 400 mm shots with only paint scratching off.

Not to mention the Man Rodi's having heavy armor and still dying to a simple mace to cockpit.

Mace to the cockpit is the new Build Knuckle.
The thing is though, IBO has been very consistent about showing Mobile Suits being resistant to ranged weapons: hell, even the grunts don't go down in a fiery explosion upon getting grazed by a shot unlike most Gundams. So it's not really "script" so much as it is maintaining internal consistency by establishing a feature of MS combat in this series.

Also, armor acting like actual armor has precedent in real life: certain weapon systems like modern day main battle tanks are designed to be resistant to their own weapons, hence it takes a lot of fire to bring one down (it's one of the reasons that the US found scuttling their own M1 tanks difficult at times). Of course there are weapons designed to defeat armor, and in the case of IBO that seems to be incredibly heavy and massive melee weapons: both the Barbatos' mace and the Gusion's hammer are shown to be quite effective against heavy armor, and such maintain consistency.

Even the Barbatos' sword is shown to be less effective against the heavily armored Man Rodis than the mace, and the only will with it so far was through an unarmored weakpoint in the Man Rodi. Against actual heavy armor it's clearly shown that the katana just bounces off it, as would be expected of a relatively light sword against armor.

Given that both sides are shown to be compliant to the established internal consistency of the setting, trying to pass of Barbatos' mace as being "the new Build Knuckle" is rather nonsensical to me. The fact that combat in IBO doesn't just devolve into shooting at grunts made of explodium is a very nice and fresh change of pace.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by Zeonista » Tue Dec 22, 2015 7:15 pm

Brave Fencer Kirby wrote:
Zeonista wrote:Gundam being what it is, I am certain that by the end of the series Mikazuki & Lafter will be tearing through entire squadrons without breaking a sweat.
While I won't discount the possibility entirely, that would be a shift on par with the difference between the first and second season of Gundam 00 -- not necessarily a bad thing, but certainly a major change in tone. And frankly, I would be rather disappointed if it does come to that point. GIBO's focus on small-unit tactics against competent enemies without a hugely enormous technology gap between combatants is its greatest strength, and if they move away from than in favor of more typical "supremely skilled pilots in monstrously powerful mecha" then they'll be losing much for little gain.
The Japanese love them some Musou-style heroics in Gundam and other anime, that they do. However, given the revelations on armor tech and the low number of combatants per engagement to date, I am not too worried this will turn into a flunky-fest. IBO seems determined to make the heroes earn glory on slender resources with no armor-carving beam weaponry, and it's alright.

Balofo: The mecha design isn't weak, it's just an in-story detail of post-Calamity mecha design. In the trinity of armor-firepower-mobility, armor currently has the greatest prominence, and firepower is the weakest. Deciding things in close combat makes sense, especially if projectiles cannot be counted on at range to penetrate and cause critical damage. This situation is not unknown to us. A sword or spear may turn on a Milanese steel breastplate, but a mace or poleaxe's hammer-head will still strike with crushing force!

BTW I am not holding out for lots of detailed info in-story on the truly calamitous war that caused the current misery beyond Earth. (Maybe even on parts of Earth that are not the abodes of its elite ruling class.) However, the war cast a long shadow through time, and Tekkadan, Atra, Kudelia, Teiwaz, and the Brewers live in that shadow. Is more explanation required at this time?

Kuruni: You are still cheering for the Best End then? :D It is difficult to be so optimistic regarding the end of any Gundam series, especially one that is serious about its story. However, I cannot bring myself to disparage the possibility. :P

Dark Duel: The story pacing could fit a 25 episode series, sure. But unless a lot of things happen soon, it will make getting to Earth with any real resolution rather difficult. I am starting to wonder if Sunrise made 25 episodes up front, with another 25 episodes on standby if the fans decide they like the story.

Xeonsynth: At this point in the story Mikazuki has definitely had more character development and a wider range of personal expression than Setsuna did in the entire 00 TV run. For that matter, the brat squad learning their three Rs with him in Kudelia-sensei's class also has had more character development. :P But that comparison ought to have its own topic, instead of eating page count in this thread.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by zetatype » Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:29 pm

Brave Fencer Kirby wrote:
Zeonista wrote:Gundam being what it is, I am certain that by the end of the series Mikazuki & Lafter will be tearing through entire squadrons without breaking a sweat.
While I won't discount the possibility entirely, that would be a shift on par with the difference between the first and second season of Gundam 00 -- not necessarily a bad thing, but certainly a major change in tone. And frankly, I would be rather disappointed if it does come to that point. GIBO's focus on small-unit tactics against competent enemies without a hugely enormous technology gap between combatants is its greatest strength, and if they move away from than in favor of more typical "supremely skilled pilots in monstrously powerful mecha" then they'll be losing much for little gain.
I think SEED is a better example. Back when Kira was piloting the Strike he would usually get only 1 or 2 kills per battle and they were usually tough battles. Then once he gets the Freedom he's almost effortlessly wiping out groups of mobile suits left and right.

In both season 1 and 2 of 00 CB always had a significant technological advantage over their enemies. If anything that technological gap shrunk in season 2 since A-laws has the pseudo GN drives from the end of season 1.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by Zeonista » Thu Dec 24, 2015 1:50 am

A few comments in passing on the present episode...

Debris fields are fun!: Better than boring old starfield backdrops, that's what George Lucas taught us all so many years ago. Hammerhead and Isarabi can still make the run in less than 12 parsecs though. :lol:
No promises bro: Mikazuki will help Akahiro of course, but only to a point. Akahiro understands. This is a true Gundam scene.
Anata, obento desu: Atra-chan is so damn cute sometimes. And it's good that she & Kudelia are there to keep Mika-kun aware that he has stuff to live for as well.
A pirate's life (not) for me: The scene with Masahiro and his fellow expendables inspires a lot of pity. It is another true Gundam scene, as the damned fighters wonder if there is an afterlife they could aspire to. May God have mercy on their souls, for our heroes will have none.
Tunnel: Best commentary on travel time in a Gundam series in a while. :)
Waiting: A gem of a scene that says much with little.
Silly rabbit, tactics are for Tekkadan!: The Brewers have gotten tactically lazy, preying on ships that don't have the ability to fight back. Naze & Orga show them how bad they've gotten.
Hammer time: Mechheads can say whatever they want, a solid hammer-head the size of a truck always works if it lands a hit! :D
Salute the Tomino flag: Yeah....it wasn't going to happen, and we all knew it. Farewell Masahiro, we knew you long enough to feel sorry for you and all the other victims of a war declared over nearly three centuries ago.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by Ascension » Sat Dec 26, 2015 1:48 am

...wow. It's been over seven years since I posted here. I had to clear my old SEED ships out of my signature before I could post. This is surreal.

Anyway, getting back on topic, I haven't been into a currently-airing mecha series since Gundam 00, but I decided to give Iron-Blooded Orphans a go, and it's pulled me in to the extent that I'm dusting off abandoned old forum accounts just to comment on it.

I'm very much not a fan of Naze's harem-ship, but I'm loving practically everything else I'm seeing here. I gave Reconguista a brief try and found it utterly incomprehensible, and Unicorn's first episode was fairly good but didn't grab me, so I'm extra glad to find a Gundam show that excites me again.

And hey, there's more Macross on the way, too, so you may see more of me around.

EDIT: Guison aesthetic talk snipped, didn't realize that it had already been argued across the first couple pages. But I transitioned out of that to say...

The Goetic demon theme in general, I'm quite fond of. I imagine we're going to see some great fan designs to help fill out the 72. :)
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by nacho-wan » Sat Dec 26, 2015 2:24 am

[quote="balofo"]...
Not to mention the Man Rodi's having heavy armor and still dying to a simple mace to cockpit.
.../quote]

I don't know but a 40 ton robot having its cockpit smashed by a 15 ton hammer wielded by a 44 ton Gundam with lots a momentum is pretty reasonable to me.

As for the battles in general, I think this is one of the few times were battleships can make themselves useful during combat, they are usually the damsel in distress. Having their armor be worth its weight is refreshing.

Mobile suit combat in general, for me at least, has been very clunky and awkward. The Grazerifles in particular are useless. They sure should strap a granede launcher with napalm on it...
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by Ascension » Sat Dec 26, 2015 2:38 am

Oh, one more comment. There are various explanations you could put forward for it... social conditioning, registration in a theoretically-inescapable database-of-discrimination, a simple meta aid to help in character identification... but I think it's interesting that even in Tekkadan, none of the Human Debris have tried to shed the red-stripe-of-shame. You'd think that normalizing them would fit right in with Orga's brohood-over-all ethos... but maybe that's still to come, as part of the thematic wrap-up of the current arc.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by Amion » Sat Dec 26, 2015 1:57 pm

Social conditioning definitely. This can really be used to mess people up and warp them permanently to a specific way of thinking.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by balofo » Sun Dec 27, 2015 9:43 am

Are we supposed to care about unnamed character deaths? LOL

Okada was a mistake, what a hack.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by Kuruni » Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:11 pm

It start with full brutality.

It's sharp contrast to many previous battle...and I include previous series as well. Shino clearly has mild mental break down as he aware how both sides loss their men in pointless and unreasonable fashion. This battle is clearly in War is Hell zone. On other hand, fact that Tekkadan's human debris can let it go because they were in same situation themselves lift up some mood.

While it's somewhat scary, I also find it's refreshing that instead of has shellshock when Kudel blame him of enjoy killing, Mika simply write it off that Kudel is better dead anyway and finish him (even if the effect last afterward).

Then the mood go up and down through out the episode. I chuckle at Almiria's typical loli anxiety. At first I wonder if McFareed is just playing with her emotion but it doesn't seem to be the case.

So funeral become rare in PD era? Anyway Meribit and Orga are really nice pair XD . Naze and Amida sudden kiss also make me chuckle.

Dammit Mika! Clearly he isn't typical clueless anime hero...

Look like something big will happen in the next episode, although it doesn't look elike there will be MS action.
balofo wrote:Are we supposed to care about unnamed character deaths? LOL

Okada was a mistake, what a hack.
Well, I think it's not so subtlely reflect in Meribit's conversation with Orga. It isn't that we're suppose to care about some faceless characters' death, this episode is more about how characters we know take death of those characters.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:28 pm

Kuruni wrote:Dammit Mika! Clearly he isn't typical clueless anime hero...
Isn't typical in the these that he's even more clueless than your normal hero. It's clear he was just mimicking Naze and has no idea the actual implications behind what he did.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by Amion » Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:05 pm

Destiny_Gundam wrote:
Kuruni wrote:Dammit Mika! Clearly he isn't typical clueless anime hero...
Isn't typical in the these that he's even more clueless than your normal hero. It's clear he was just mimicking Naze and has no idea the actual implications behind what he did.
He said he thought she looked pretty. And he looked kinda smug while he was eating his fig. I don't think he was entirely clueless about what he did.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by balofo » Sun Dec 27, 2015 4:38 pm

At least I can look forward to what OP2 will spoil next Sunday, if they actually show the animation since the song is confirmed to debut.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by Calubin_175 » Sun Dec 27, 2015 5:13 pm

Too bad caricature went down too easily, and wasn't even that formidable except for the heavy armour.

So Tekkadan seized the assets of Brewers, which amounted to 2 ships and 10 intact MS. After accounting for MS losses in the battles, this is in line with the description in the HG manual of 2 warships, 1 transport and ten-odd MS.

MS are a rare commodity and that is considered big for a pirate organisation.

One thing I don't get is that MS being so rare, they don't get a specific honourific for their pilots. At least in Five Star Stories and Muv Luv, their pilots were Hedd Liners(with Fatimas) and Eishis.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by balofo » Sun Dec 27, 2015 5:15 pm

There were always 2 Brewers transport ships shown in the anime in contrast with the manual.

Also, Orga selling the Man Rodi because of sentimentalism was lame. All these boys with AV System just waiting to be useful in battle.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Sun Dec 27, 2015 6:04 pm

Amion wrote:He said he thought she looked pretty. And he looked kinda smug while he was eating his fig. I don't think he was entirely clueless about what he did.
Him finding her cute at that moment was certainly his own thoughts, but the actions he took because of it were just him mimicking Naze (since Naze explained he made out with Amida because he found her cuter than normal). I doubt he understands the idea that you're only supposed to kiss some one you have romantic feelings for.
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