The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk II

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Brave Fencer Kirby
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

JDogindy wrote:To me, IBO is a pointless bloodbath with little character development. Whether or not it's because it's all flying over me, or that I don't like the concepts of child soldiers or harems or any of that stuff, I haven't really articulated it. But I can safely say it's one of my personal least favorite Gundam installments ever.
That's sort of the problem -- if you just come into the thread and say "this sucks" and not much else, then it's not really conducive to discussion, you know? There's nothing to really talk about except saying "I disagree", so it comes off as you being less interested in discussing the show and more about you coming into the thread to tell everyone who's enjoying it that they're wrong.

In any case, I'd actually agree with you that IBO is fairly light on character development. The only character with any significant growth is Orga, who's gone from a reckless gang leader with nothing to lose to an inexperienced commander who knows he's in over his head. Mika, Kudelia, Atra, Biscuit, etc have all been pretty static characters, which is to the show's detriment.

I'd disagree about it being a bloodbath, though. That's actually one of the things I like best about IBO -- unlike the vast majority of Gundam shows, it doesn't feature hordes of mooks showing up just to die. With the exception of the single large-scale battle in the first episode, every fight in IBO has been a fairly small skirmish involving no more than a half-dozen or so combatants on either side. This has allowed them to treat battles far more realistically than most Gundam shows do -- combatants actually show some measure of tactics, retreating as they find themselves in an untenable situation, rather than throwing themselves heedlessly forward until they inevitably explode when faced with the unstoppable might of a named character. Combat is still portrayed as dangerous -- mecha take damage, pilots are injured, and people die -- but it's not the sort of suicidal human wave tactics where a lone ace can massacre an entire enemy squad by himself without breaking a sweat.

The irony there is that because of the fact that combat is less lethal in IBO, it feels bloodier because we actually have a chance to get to know the characters on both sides of the battle a little bit. With the exception of the first episode, we know characters on both sides of every battle. The protagonists aren't just gunning down faceless enemy mooks by the dozen, they're fighting characters that we know their names and personalities, even if only a little bit. IBO has one of the lowest overall body counts in Gundam, but it doesn't feel that way, because virtually everyone who's died has been an actual character with a name and a face rather than an anonymous extra.
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Amion
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

What would help IBO is it getting 50 episodes breathing space. Gundam has always been a 50 episode anime franchise, with stuff below that number among the main TV installments being the rarity. Heck, most of the OVAs like Unicorn got episodes much longer than 24 minutes, thus counting for more time spent overall.

Reconguista and IBO are both suffering from the new trend of 26 episode stories. One had too much to tell in too little time, and the other arguably could give us more reason to care about its lesser content with more time than it's been allotted. Sad to say, I feel the new trend of 26 episodes is here to stay for the foreseeable future, unless the reception is massive.

That continued thorn in my side out the way:

To argue the point about static characters, Kirby, I would say Kudelia is hardly stagnant. She's developed at every major stopping point in her journey. She's taken a sideline during the Brewers arc, admittedly, only to spring back into focus next episode according to the previews. As for everyone else you mentioned... well, I can't argue there. Because you're right. Okada doesn't seem interested in really pushing major developments.

This brings up a question on my part: exactly how many well developed characters must there be to make a story credibly "good"? Are many heavily developed characters necessary in a great story, or do we really only need a few well-polished stars like Orga and Kudelia to shine through in the end? Where do we draw the line of heavily developed cast = better story? What if the few who do get development appeal to the majority by the end as great, lovable characters?
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balofo
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

What would help IBO is it getting 50 episodes breathing space.
No it wouldn't, the writing would be even worse. Same for G-Reco, if it got 13 more eps Tomino would just waste them on the shitty Caribbean/Towasanga ones instead of more VG and a non rushed ending.
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JDogindy
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Brave Fencer Kirby wrote:
JDogindy wrote:To me, IBO is a pointless bloodbath with little character development. Whether or not it's because it's all flying over me, or that I don't like the concepts of child soldiers or harems or any of that stuff, I haven't really articulated it. But I can safely say it's one of my personal least favorite Gundam installments ever.
That's sort of the problem -- if you just come into the thread and say "this sucks" and not much else, then it's not really conducive to discussion, you know? There's nothing to really talk about except saying "I disagree", so it comes off as you being less interested in discussing the show and more about you coming into the thread to tell everyone who's enjoying it that they're wrong.

In any case, I'd actually agree with you that IBO is fairly light on character development. The only character with any significant growth is Orga, who's gone from a reckless gang leader with nothing to lose to an inexperienced commander who knows he's in over his head. Mika, Kudelia, Atra, Biscuit, etc have all been pretty static characters, which is to the show's detriment.

I'd disagree about it being a bloodbath, though. That's actually one of the things I like best about IBO -- unlike the vast majority of Gundam shows, it doesn't feature hordes of mooks showing up just to die. With the exception of the single large-scale battle in the first episode, every fight in IBO has been a fairly small skirmish involving no more than a half-dozen or so combatants on either side. This has allowed them to treat battles far more realistically than most Gundam shows do -- combatants actually show some measure of tactics, retreating as they find themselves in an untenable situation, rather than throwing themselves heedlessly forward until they inevitably explode when faced with the unstoppable might of a named character. Combat is still portrayed as dangerous -- mecha take damage, pilots are injured, and people die -- but it's not the sort of suicidal human wave tactics where a lone ace can massacre an entire enemy squad by himself without breaking a sweat.

The irony there is that because of the fact that combat is less lethal in IBO, it feels bloodier because we actually have a chance to get to know the characters on both sides of the battle a little bit. With the exception of the first episode, we know characters on both sides of every battle. The protagonists aren't just gunning down faceless enemy mooks by the dozen, they're fighting characters that we know their names and personalities, even if only a little bit. IBO has one of the lowest overall body counts in Gundam, but it doesn't feel that way, because virtually everyone who's died has been an actual character with a name and a face rather than an anonymous extra.
And I get that. Obviously, I don't bring anything to the conversation, but I'm not trying to insult people about it and say "If you like Iron Blooded Orphans, you're an idiot", because that's the worst way to approach something (especially if you're a fan of Reconguista in G like me, where people elsewhere on the Internet spew thread after thread about what an abomination it was and how Bellri's the worst hero in Gundam history and all that junk). I just wanted to express the fact that I just don't like this show. And this website doesn't allow "unpopular opinion" threads, so how else can I present my own opinion?

Plus, if you don't like something, you don't exactly have a great argument about it unless you have followed it in depth, so a guy like me will inevitably get a response telling me how wrong I am and how I know nothing about the show. I still stand by my belief about it.

Bottom line; I don't like Iron Blooded Orphans at all. If you enjoy it, congratulations! I'm glad you're happy about the show and that it's exceeding your expectations and desires from a Gundam program But I don't like this show, and I don't want to feel like I'm forced to keep my mouth shut just because my opinion is the exception and not the norm. I am well aware of the consequences.
kabukigang777
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

iron blooded orphans is great if they make it to 50 or 100 ep very slow story and few gundams,in g-reco they release some MS but it looks like a monster suits they dont make more real gundam,gundam 00 gundam G and gundam wing is the series that they release more gundam.
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Deathzealot
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

You know I just noticed. Thanks to this delay the Crunchyroll showing of IBO has caught up with the Daisuke showing. Therefore I can finally watch it via Crunchyroll without the darn pesky ads.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

kabukigang777 wrote:iron blooded orphans is great if they make it to 50 or 100 ep very slow story and few gundams,in g-reco they release some MS but it looks like a monster suits they dont make more real gundam,gundam 00 gundam G and gundam wing is the series that they release more gundam.
Yes, we get it, you don't like Gundams that don't have the traditional appearance you want. We don't need to hear about it at every single opportunity.
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Zeonista
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Deathzealot: New Year's Day is the seminal winter holiday, with some "bank holiday" time and schools being out for a week. Lots of people go home for the holidays like Thanksgiving and Christmas in the USA, so regularly scheduled shows usually are deprived of audience. Generally only "special episodes" or holiday-related foolery get any sort of attention, so most seasonal shows skip the week.

Amion: I have begun to speculate that IBO is going to get a second season. The story pacing just does not fit a single-season story, and way too much world-building has been done for it. Plus Kirby has a point, if this is a 26-episode story, the story is lagging on developing its leads on both sides of the conflict. But if this is a only the first third of a story, then slowly building the baseline characters so the character development points don't seem forced or sudden is about right.

JDogindy: You have not gone out of your way to stomp on toes here, and we appreciate it. I would say that it is OK to post if you don't get it and want to know what all the fuss is about. It helps those of us who are fans articulate why we get into it and what makes watching it worthwhile. Hopefully something in a past or future episode will reach you and you will be able to appreciate the series. :)
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lingabao
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

*thanks Ascension*

Anyway, RE: the pace of character development, I am still hopeful that there will be some fracture in Mika/Orga's relationship that will push the story.

Yes, we're halfway through the season, but Gurren-Lagann managed to do the 'adoring little brother' becomes the boss plot compellingly in 27 episodes. Fingers crossed.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

lingabao wrote:
Spoiler
Eating apples in the storage bin ... a shout out to Sharon, or simply reading too much into a 26 min. teaser?

Psst. Wrong thread! This is Iron-Blooded Orphans. Delta's over here.
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balofo
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Next ep summaries:
Spoiler
-14: Tekkadan delivers cargo for the Doruto Colony from a Teiwaz request.
-15: Workers start to protest in the colony, Tekkadan gets involved.
Show confirmed to go nowhere, what a waste of a good setting...
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

balofo wrote:Next ep summaries:
Spoiler
-14: Tekkadan delivers cargo for the Doruto Colony from a Teiwaz request.
-15: Workers start to protest in the colony, Tekkadan gets involved.
Show confirmed to go nowhere, what a waste of a good setting...
Please stop that habit of presenting your opinions as facts, especially when you're posting information about the show. You've been told about this before.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

But the show is slow, has no endgame to look forward besides getting to Earth, no active antagonists, forced repeated chara development, doesn't have the courage to a kill even a non important kid, comic book evil expandable badly designed ''villains'', etc.

All above are facts :)
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

......


That's the sound of me not laughing.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

lingabao: I think Orga & Mika are on the "Bros! Bros!" level fairly solidly. But if there is a wedge issue, don't look at them, but at the women along with them. ;)

Chris: Please don't be too angry with balofo-kun. He is still young with the young man's love of carnage for its own sake. Been there, done that, collected the series. :) Give him a little more time to get adjusted to a Gundam series that doesn't randomly remove cast members or MP pilots just to ramp up drama.

balofo: Do be a good boy and mind your manners here. Save the rude troll-baiting for other forums with less consideration for people. There is a difference between talking with each other and talking at each other. This is a "with each other" place.
Last edited by Zeonista on Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Everybody is entitled to their own opinions but I don't think Balofo is watching the same show as me somehow. The pacing has been great so far, and it's done a good job with the character work. If it went any faster it would feel rushed and if they crammed in needless arcs and battles in there the show would feel like a joke. As is it's perfect in my opinion. I hope it can keep up this quality.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

phillosmaster wrote: The pacing has been great so far, and it's done a good job with the character work.
Besides Orga and maybe Akihiro, there hasn't been a whole lot of character development with the rest of the crew. Mika's still a super chill pilot who never lost a match, Atra still strives to be the perfect waifu, Kudelia still mopes about her perceived uselessness, McGillis and the entire Gjallahorn still hasn't done anything, and the rest of Tekkadan's crew is still just CREW HIJINIKS filler (Though Biscuit's still alright). They've wasted a lot of time. Gundam 00 S1 had very short battles but I didn't feel like the character moments were wasted. The IBO Teiwaz episodes were dreadful.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

phillosmaster wrote:Everybody is entitled to their own opinions but I don't think Balofo is watching the same show as me somehow.
I just think he has problem separate opinion from fact, because even among his "all fact" he still insert at least two obvious opinion. Hint: no matter how many guys agree with you, an opinion is still an opinion.

Not to mention that according to the summary he posted above, it sound like a good chance to explore more of the setting to me, but there's next to nothing about it (what kind of mission they're on, and what's the motive behind protest, etc.) so I won't judge it before hand.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Kuruni wrote:Not to mention that according to the summary he posted above, it sound like a good chance to explore more of the setting to me, but there's next to nothing about it (what kind of mission they're on, and what's the motive behind protest, etc.) so I won't judge it before hand.
Apparently Kudelia-hime has become one hot potato for Gjallarhorn and the usual status-quo scumbags to handle. Thus Nobliss's lampshaded comment of ominous import... Well, the Brewers fell down on the job, and it is frikkin' obvious that Tekkadan is badass in a stand-up fight. So then, what if the next attempt is not a stand-up fight? Get some agents on a space colony, take advantage of some local trouble to get in close when Miss Spacenoid 2015 gets involved, then grab her, stuff her in the van and hit the gas. In episode 16 then Kudelia gets delivered to McGillis Fareed (sign here m'lord) and then we have an interesting story line headed for the season closer.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Zeonista wrote:JDogindy: You have not gone out of your way to stomp on toes here, and we appreciate it. I would say that it is OK to post if you don't get it and want to know what all the fuss is about. It helps those of us who are fans articulate why we get into it and what makes watching it worthwhile. Hopefully something in a past or future episode will reach you and you will be able to appreciate the series. :)
I think that's what kinda gets lost in these online discussions.
We get so wrapped up in our own thoughts and feelings that we don't see things from a different point of view.
Spoiler
Also, finally glad to be able to post after waiting so long to access my account again. :evil:
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