The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk I

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Brave Fencer Kirby
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by Brave Fencer Kirby » Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:00 pm

The business model for the Gundam franchise is pretty clear: they release new shows in new AUs to keep a steady flow of new fans interested in the series, while releasing new UC content to monetize the existing fans who tend to be suspicious of new AUs but will buy anything that says UC on it without thinking about it. It's not an accident that the longest gap in release of a new animated UC work was in the 2000s -- when they were setting up CE to be the new UC. (And with some success, too. CE is still ridiculously popular in Japan, despite not having any new shows in ten years. I suppose the HD remasters helped tide them over, though.) Once that content dried up, they went back to UC and made Unicorn, even while Gundam Age and Gundam Build Fighters were coming out. Now they're continuing that with The Origin, even as GBF Try, G-Reco, and Iron-Blooded Orphans are released.

Not that any of this is a bad thing, as long as they can keep the quality of their products up. Nintendo does something similar, the strength of their primary franchises (Mario, Pokemon, Zelda, Smash Bros, etc) letting them experiment with new things (Splatoon, Pikmin, etc). If those experiments turn out successful, then they get rolled into the core franchise roster (like Pikmin did).

The problem with this strategy as it pertains to Gundam is that it requires the core franchise roster to remain strong. Given that Gundam has started doing things like animating light novels and manga instead of creating original content for their animated works, as they've always done in the past, I find myself wondering if that well is starting to dry up. Granted, Unicorn seemed to be fantastically successful by all accounts (despite me not really caring for it personally), so maybe I'm just worrying over nothing. That said, I certainly wouldn't mind seeing something like the OYW OVAs, except set in different parts of the UC era. Karaba on Earth during Zeta has gotten basically no attention in any work, animated or not, that I'm aware of. And 08th MS Team style show following an EFF MS team during the First Neo Zeon War or a Londo Bell unit during CCA has a lot of potential to be interesting. There's a lot that could still be done with the UC timeline even without extending it out indefinitely past Victory... they've just shown no interest in taking things in that direction, unfortunately.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by monster » Wed Sep 16, 2015 3:44 pm

Amion wrote:On the note of about what works: they keep trying to reach a certain demographic of new fans by using formulas or different uses of the same or similar material, ignoring that the original MSG was created simply to tell its story, target audience be colony dropped. Perhaps its time they focused on that again. But of course, this is Bandai. Such a thing, 'tis impossible. :P
The first installment in a franchise usually has it easier because it does not have to deal with the expectation of both keeping and growing an existing fan base. It also does not have to deal with the tension between the risk of boring the current fan base by keeping familiar aspects of the franchise and the risk of alienating the current fan base by introducing new aspects to the franchise.

Granted, the situation is a little better with Gundam as its fan base is not as united so the franchise can use a two-pronged (UC and AU) approach, but both the expectation and the tension still exist for each new installment in the franchise, not to mention the growing threats from other shows and franchises as competitors.

That said, I also believe that the whole AU approach of starting over with a new timeline with every show does little to raise the expectation unless the previous shows were really good. A new show like Orphans does not have the advantage of being a sequel that people might look forward to even though it is part of a long-running franchise.
Brave Fencer Kirby wrote:There's a lot that could still be done with the UC timeline even without extending it out indefinitely past Victory... they've just shown no interest in taking things in that direction, unfortunately.
I thought the common complaint was that new UC stories have not been willing to move past F91/Crossbone era, or even past Victory(/G-Saviour 8)).

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by Amion » Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:31 pm

True what both Monster and Kirby say, and I did think of that. It's just, like what you guys touched one: there IS fresh material, but it's coming out in light novels and such stuff.

Dare I say it? If CE is so popular and all that, why haven't we gotten a movie or third installment post Destiny? I mean, let's face it, surely they could get someone else besides Fukuda and Morosawa to write a next stage in the story? Or do they have rights to the material?

If that's the case, is it possible that Monster's reasonable complaint, which I happen to share, about the lack of AI sequels is because the directors/writers have some say in whether their stories are used again without their involvement or permission?
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by nacho-wan » Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:39 am

I think Gundam is becoming too heavy to be lifted by any new series. It has way too much background, too much heritage. Maybe Sunrise should wait a bit and keep throwing stuff to the wall like Valvrave and Aldonoah Zero to see what sticks. Or else the problem, is that Japan is moving away for dramatic animé in favor of silly high-school over-the-top comedies, which seem like the plague in any season preview.

I for one I'm excited for Orphans; it seems to have the flavor of an exotica like 00 S1 did. If we only get a first episode as good as 00's I'll be satisfied.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:01 pm

nacho-wan wrote:Maybe Sunrise should wait a bit and keep throwing stuff to the wall like Valvrave and Aldonoah Zero to see what sticks.
Aldnoah was A-1, not Sunrise.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by Amion » Sat Sep 19, 2015 10:29 am

nacho-wan wrote:I think Gundam is becoming too heavy to be lifted by any new series. It has way too much background, too much heritage. Maybe Sunrise should wait a bit and keep throwing stuff to the wall like Valvrave and Aldonoah Zero to see what sticks. Or else the problem, is that Japan is moving away for dramatic animé in favor of silly high-school over-the-top comedies, which seem like the plague in any season preview.

I for one I'm excited for Orphans; it seems to have the flavor of an exotica like 00 S1 did. If we only get a first episode as good as 00's I'll be satisfied.

The high-school comedies, which I don't appreciate, do seem to be the growing trend. It was mentioned back during AGE that a lack of war for Japan (which is good, I'd never wish a war on them) has left most of the current gens unappreciative of a war story on a fundamental basis. That's perhaps one reason for the focus on "understanding". Japan's always been isolationist, the imperialism of WWII being a blurb in history rather than the standard behavior model. The people there generally just don't really feel a war drama like the old UC guard do, thus a focus on somehow "fixing" the wars as the primary theme.

That's my two cents, anyway. I just wish we'd get more fundamentally different shows outside the highschool setting, which is starting to become almost required it seems.

Only anime I can remember last watching (and I'm not watching much now, admittedly) was Atttack on Titan. I know IT, at least, is free of that kind of thing. :mrgreen:

Oh, and Tekketsu. It doesn't appear to have high school shenanigans anymore either. Though how that will effect the plot is unknown.
Any release date for more material on it?
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by Kuruni » Sat Sep 19, 2015 11:17 am

Be real, if we're going to pick Sunrise's recent smash hit then it's undoubtable Love Live! If we want Sunrise to wait a bit between Gundam, THAT would be their choice instead of Valvrave.

(and Gintama, which AFAIK totally miss in western but extremely popular in Japan and here)
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by balofo » Sat Sep 19, 2015 10:04 pm

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by nacho-wan » Mon Sep 21, 2015 1:20 am

Kuruni wrote:Be real, if we're going to pick Sunrise's recent smash hit then it's undoubtable Love Live! If we want Sunrise to wait a bit between Gundam, THAT would be their choice instead of Valvrave.

(and Gintama, which AFAIK totally miss in western but extremely popular in Japan and here)
Sorry I only see mecha anime, so my choices are pretty limited. Btw, I'm glad they didn't try to fit the Valvrave school in space story on a Gundam setting. That would have beein quite weird.

And per Amion's comment, do you think that Sunrise can make a workable Gundam story with its traditional anti-war messages? I mean, can Gundam bear a different, more relevant meaning than that?
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by Vent Noir » Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:08 am

Kuruni wrote:Be real, if we're going to pick Sunrise's recent smash hit then it's undoubtable Love Live! If we want Sunrise to wait a bit between Gundam, THAT would be their choice instead of Valvrave.
Maybe they can combine the two and have idol singers piloting giant robots? :wink:
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by Henyo » Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:45 am

Vent Noir wrote:
Kuruni wrote:Be real, if we're going to pick Sunrise's recent smash hit then it's undoubtable Love Live! If we want Sunrise to wait a bit between Gundam, THAT would be their choice instead of Valvrave.
Maybe they can combine the two and have idol singers piloting giant robots? :wink:
they already did. way back in 2007. technically speaking.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by Kyuzo Aoi » Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:41 pm

The real problem is that people try to shove one theme on the other, either by the hardline UC fans, the overseas fans, staff, company, etc.

I also think that they should ditch the anti-war themes for a while. :roll:
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by Brave Fencer Kirby » Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:19 pm

Kyuzo Aoi wrote:I also think that they should ditch the anti-war themes for a while. :roll:
That's sort of one of the defining features of the franchise, mean. You might as well get rid of the giant robots while you're at it.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by Admiral Larsen » Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:08 pm

Brave Fencer Kirby wrote:
Kyuzo Aoi wrote:I also think that they should ditch the anti-war themes for a while. :roll:
That's sort of one of the defining features of the franchise, mean. You might as well get rid of the giant robots while you're at it.
Agreed and perhaps it is even more important now considering what is going on with the Japanese audience.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by Dark Duel » Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:37 pm

Kyuzo Aoi wrote:I also think that they should ditch the anti-war themes for a while. :roll:
They already tried that back in '94. And, strictly speaking, they did it again with Build Fighters.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by Kyuzo Aoi » Mon Sep 21, 2015 9:45 pm

Ah, oh yes, Dark Duel. I have stand corrected.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by Chris » Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:48 am

Kyuzo Aoi wrote:The real problem is that people try to shove one theme on the other, either by the hardline UC fans, the overseas fans, staff, company, etc.

I also think that they should ditch the anti-war themes for a while. :roll:
Gundam has never been anti-war. The theme of Gundam has always been that war is a necessary evil to protect civilians and gain peace. Even Wing's preaching of total pacifism comes with the inherent contradiction that people are fighting on behalf of pacifism. If Gundam were anti-war, no one would ever fight at all.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by battletech » Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:34 pm

Chris wrote:
Kyuzo Aoi wrote:The real problem is that people try to shove one theme on the other, either by the hardline UC fans, the overseas fans, staff, company, etc.

I also think that they should ditch the anti-war themes for a while. :roll:
Gundam has never been anti-war. The theme of Gundam has always been that war is a necessary evil to protect civilians and gain peace. Even Wing's preaching of total pacifism comes with the inherent contradiction that people are fighting on behalf of pacifism. If Gundam were anti-war, no one would ever fight at all.
Oh! So I'm not alone. I wonder where this idea that Gundam is anti-war came from? Gundam says war is terrible so I guess people infer that just because it says that then it must be anti-war.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by Deacon Blues » Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:33 pm

Is it me or are we missing an actual PV for this show with the voice actors in it? I mean, we're what... almost a week and a half out from airtime?

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk

Post by Kuruni » Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:02 am

battletech wrote:Oh! So I'm not alone. I wonder where this idea that Gundam is anti-war came from? Gundam says war is terrible so I guess people infer that just because it says that then it must be anti-war.
Well, if we're taking specific show, the one that I think can count as true anti-war is 0080. But overall, I agree that it's more of "war is bad but sometime it's necessary".
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