Fafner: Exodus

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Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:13 pm

They should have at least added a line to the effect of
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"Thanks to our hard work we finished early!" but as it is it's not clear.
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Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by Dark Duel » Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:33 pm

I'm actually not that fussed
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about the speed at which the Einherjar Models were completed, because they are the island's one chance for survival. And given what Canon sacrificed to give them that chance, I can see Mrs. Hazama working herself ragged to complete them as soon as possible.

And judging from how she passed out, it's clear enough for me that that's exactly what she did.
I feel sorry for her though. That is, after all, the second time she has lost her daughter to this war. The difference this time, is that
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Canon isn't really entirely gone. Not the way that Shoko was - as this episode makes clear.

Anyway, this episode was bloody amazing. Sakura and Kenji's wedding sort of came out of nowhere, but it was sweet, and provided some much-needed levity. Also, Kenji's return to the battlefield in the upgraded MkVIII alongside his wife's upgraded MkIII was nice too.

The revelation that the NUNs pilot with the glasses(I can't remember his name) was previously part of the unit that attempted to nuke the island in Heaven and Earth was interesting, but to me it felt kind of unnecessary.
But the highlight of the episode for me was its conclusion. I had a feeling he would be back, and I am glad to see him again. That being said, while Kazuki is still IMO the reigning King of "Big Damn Heroes" entrances for this franchise, this guy I would probably say is the Crown Prince. You can’t see it, but I’m grinning from ear to ear right now. I literally can NOT wait to see what happens next.

That said, I was watching the ED, and I facepalmed pretty hard when I realized that I should have instantly recognized the guy standing with Kazuki and Sushi near the end of the video - all three of them are wearing navy-blue greatcoats...because it's the same guy who just turned up in today's episode.
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Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:34 am

Dark Duel wrote:
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And judging from how she passed out, it's clear enough for me that that's exactly what she did.
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She passed out because she was suffering from the same sickness as the other adults (she was on an IV before they started the upgrades). If time passed they did a poor job showing it. I also find it hard to believe that life on the island continued a whole month while in the mouth of the whale like Festum. And what about Sakura's mom? They gave her only a month to live so did she die in the meantime? You'd think Sakura would have mentioned it.
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Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by Raikoh » Sun Nov 08, 2015 4:29 am

Things just keep on moving forward. Kenji and Sakura finally managed to tie the knot. Have I mentioned how Arai's performance as Sakura blows me away at how good it is? I have? Well, it's really good.

For the "month" thing, it's clear that they allocated everything they possibly could to finish the Einherjar faster than expected, since they mention that it's their only hope of surviving without abandoning Tatsumiyajima. If you really worry about the deets of the time frame, the composition of the episode makes it look like the Einherjar was completed incredibly quickly. Due to the framing being discussion of the wedding while others are working on the upgrade, Sakura's mom was shown as alive during the wedding, then they're completed on the wedding night. It's unclear exactly how much time passed but it's definitely under a month.
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Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by Amion » Sun Nov 08, 2015 11:25 am

Raikoh wrote:Things just keep on moving forward. Kenji and Sakura finally managed to tie the knot. Have I mentioned how Arai's performance as Sakura blows me away at how good it is? I have? Well, it's really good.

For the "month" thing, it's clear that they allocated everything they possibly could to finish the Einherjar faster than expected, since they mention that it's their only hope of surviving without abandoning Tatsumiyajima. If you really worry about the deets of the time frame, the composition of the episode makes it look like the Einherjar was completed incredibly quickly. Due to the framing being discussion of the wedding while others are working on the upgrade, Sakura's mom was shown as alive during the wedding, then they're completed on the wedding night. It's unclear exactly how much time passed but it's definitely under a month.
Agreed, Raikoh. I couldn't see a thing wrong with the timing for this episode, save that it doesn't have a clip show montage. Funny, but I actually would have preferred such a bit of clip showing for the Fafners, maybe give a before and after date for Hazama, since it's obvious she worked herself without sleep.

Besides, it was stated that they would rather finish the Fafners rather than leave the Island and Orihime behind. It would make sense that they put their all into the Einherjar.

And YES! He returns! He, and who else? Though I admit I'm disappointed he can't go Festum like he did in the original series. Then again, he obviously can, but prefers a more human approach. Guess he'll upgrade to a more snazzy look later on.

Also, the future is changing, but how much? Altair comes, and if it falls into the ocean first. . .

I have a question: if it's clear the NUN was using a satellite, is it possible the enemy Space Azazel (presumably Azazel type) is actually pretending to be the system for the Human Army? Otherwise I'm not getting how or where that thing fits into the scheme.

We know both Human and Festum enemies are tracking them. We know one Azazel Mir turned into a storm. That way it allows itself to remove clouds for the Space Azazel to peer down on Earth. So I thought. But both sides can't be using eyes in the sky to track them, can they?

At this point it looks like the Azazels are distracting Humanity from their true goal: perfect welcoming positions. Neptune (I'm gonna call Walker's Mir Neptune for now) rules the ocean. If Altair falls into it than game over. In space we have "Aether" which might be a regular Festum. If it's an Azazel, it will be able to contact Altair before anyone else. Game Over. But it's days are clearly numbered. Last of all we have the storm Festum (Caelus maybe?) who has the weather under its supervision. If Altar flies into the storm than game over.

At all points the Humans have started to forget about Altair, IMO, and worry more about surviving the Festum attacks, which is admittedly a prerequisite to a dialogue. The Polaris Fragments, however, have already moved Humanity into Check, and are going in for the Mate.
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Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by Dark Duel » Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:29 am

So this week continues the EPICNESS that we got last week with the return of
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Koyo, who not only bails out Amaterasu, but proceeds to take on "Walker" in single combat and, with some help from shore, utterly whoop its ass.
Kazuki himself would be impressed, I think.
I have to admit, I facepalmed pretty hard when I was watching last week's episode for probably the fourth or fifth time a few days ago and realized that his return was ANNOUNCED IN THE NEW ED CLIP SEQUENCE, in which he appears alongside Kazuki and Soushi. Can't believe I missed that.

At the same time, MkVIII, MkIX, and MkXII get to be awesome too, although I have to say I am not entirely sure that the battle's objective was entirely achieved given that
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"Walker" moved to shield the Mir's core from MkIX's attack, and was itself destroyed...but whether the core was destroyed as well IMO was unclear.

Then there's what happened to poor Mimika-chan. Reno took it hard, and with good reason. I suppose once the Death Flag Helmet fell off, I sort of expected something tragic to happen. I guess I wasn't expecting a soccer-ball-sized sphere of some type.
Wonder what'll happen next...
And, on the other side of the world,
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Dustin the Scumbag and his merry band of murderers almost catch up to the good guys...only for Narain to spring a trap that leaves them stranded outside the base just as that grotesque-looking Azazel-type reappears.
Good. Hope it kills every last one of 'em.
Show continues to be amazing, and I sincerely hope it keeps it up all the way through to the end.
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Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:14 am

Kinda thought this episode was a step down. The animation was noticably of lesser quality and for a mostly action episode the battle wasn't that thrilling. Sure, compared to everything else it was fine, but compared to the rest of Exodus it was weak.
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Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by LightningCount » Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:08 am

I'm caught up through 19 now.
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*I was really glad they gave Kenji and Sakura some moments. It seems like their relationship has been brushed aside for a while, and it's always been my favorite. The wedding was a fun surprise.

*I think the "time thing" wasn't as awkward as the time management during the battle at the Great Tree, or whatever it was called. Here, they stated they wanted to forgo the more conservative plan, work hard, and risk everything. I do wonder if the "Exodus" title would eventually refer to all on the island, though. Anyway, they framed it around the wedding. And it is understood, I think, that the wedding took planning time. Weddings rarely happen in one day, and it didn't sound like they were going to treat it as such. I was fine enough with it overall. But I do think that this series' second half has not had quite as consistent pacing as the first half. I wonder if they will be able to fit in a real ending, or if this will continue in a movie sequel or something. There are so many threads to deal with still. On second thought, though...while it worked, it was a rather rushed way to introduce the new Fafners. I suppose those two episodes where Canon was fighting the future were supposed to be the buildup.

*The overall animation quality hasn't been quite as consistent as the first half, either, in my opinion. (I've also noticed what seem to be some reused shots in the council meetings, I think.) But it's still above par, and I'm fine with that.

*Really like this octopus water Mir.

*The attack on the core reminded me a bit of of Operation Yashima from EVA.

*Liked seeing the flying support units for the Fafners back. Not seen since Heaven and Earth and the early episodes of the original series, IIRC.

*I'm not sure Koyo was in the first version of the second ending, actually. I think they just added him in now.

*Koyo is BACK! Awesome.

*I think Canon will come back in a similar capacity.

*All these new Fafners...is the return of Zero Fafner coming?

*Does the ending spoil that there will be a new/evolved/expanded island that's more of a full-on battleship?

*The new opening has a bit of an Attack on Titan tone to it. The ending part of it really sells it.

*The new opening has a lot of extras in it, like the heroes of Right of Left!

*The red-haired woman that said her relative (nephew, I think she said?) died in Plan L: Is she related to a named character in Right of Left?

*I almost feel like, pacing-wise, with the introduction of the new mecha, we are earlier in this series than we are. Again, I'm concerned about how this is going to end with enough episodes to cover things adequately. We still have the whole General Burns angle to clear up, for instance. It seems like so much new stuff is being introduced when we only have 7 episodes left and a number of things that weren't cleared up even in the first 13.

That's all for now.
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Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Sat Nov 14, 2015 11:09 am

LightningCount wrote:*Does the ending spoil that there will be a new/evolved/expanded island that's more of a full-on battleship?
Most of Alvis is underwater. That's just the island's true form.
LightningCount wrote:*The red-haired woman that said her relative (nephew, I think she said?) died in Plan L: Is she related to a named character in Right of Left?
Saki is related to Ryou, the main dude from RoL.
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Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by LightningCount » Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:32 pm

Couple of things I wanted to point out/mention, but forgot:
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*Koyo's return solidified Sui Kaburagi as "not-Koyo." Sui's near-death/assimilation (and I thought he was a goner), was a replay of Koyo's assimilation from the original series. This, following Sui's parents having such a conflict with him not unlike Koyo's parents. But here, Sui and his parents make up, and Koyo ensures that Sui doesn't suffer his fate with the Festum. That was some nice writing, I thought.

*Jonathan Mitsuhiro Bertrand (or is it Bartland?) has really dropped off the face of the plot. Why hasn't he had a scene with his half-sisters in forever? Especially with what they've been going through? We see only see a little of Jonathan through the Billy and Dustin conflict, and that's very subtle, if anything--I may be reaching. The extended first episode allegedly goes out of its way to show that he has powers to resist assimilation, and he was a partial focus earlier on in wanting more power to protect people, hinting at a future moral dilemma. Then there's the whole fact that he's the son of a main antagonist from the original series. I don't want him to comically go to the "dark side" or anything, but I want for him to have some key moments down the stretch here. I'm concerned about the balance in focus between old and new characters at this late a point in the series. While not as extreme, we're running into a potential SEED/Destiny scenario, where the new characters end up with the short end of the stick after a lot of buildup.

*Since it was mentioned in this thread, Keith Water's admission of the bombing run on the island was a bit of an curious choice. It tied things together further, but I thought he could have just as well told the story of the Hawaii bombing mission, and how he had a change of heart back then (as seen in the first episode of Exodus). Regardless, I like how they've kept Keith in the mix to have a broader view of things. When a show zeroes in on a background/incidental character, and then never uses them again in-series (I'm looking at you, Aldnoah Zero's MIA Count Keteratesse), it tends to bug me some. Still, I actually expected Keith to bite the bullet by now.
Destiny_Gundam wrote:
LightningCount wrote:*The red-haired woman that said her relative (nephew, I think she said?) died in Plan L: Is she related to a named character in Right of Left?
Saki is related to Ryou, the main dude from RoL.
Thanks for clarifying that, and my question about the island, too. Maybe you can answer these similar questions, then: There is a guy who looks like a younger version of Mizoguchi who hangs out with that red-haired girl from time to time. Who is he supposed to be? And also, there was a young woman who joined the command center as an operator earlier in Exodus who, I think, was a restaurant worker. Not sure who she is. Finally, the character of Olga...when was she introduced in the franchise? Some of these characters and their family/story connections escaped me.
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Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:38 pm

LightningCount wrote:There is a guy who looks like a younger version of Mizoguchi who hangs out with that red-haired girl from time to time. Who is he supposed to be?
Mitsugu Jinnai. Doesn't seem like he's related to anyone, just some dude who works on the island.
LightningCount wrote:And also, there was a young woman who joined the command center as an operator earlier in Exodus who, I think, was a restaurant worker. Not sure who she is.
Hiroto's sister Mai.
LightningCount wrote:Finally, the character of Olga...when was she introduced in the franchise? Some of these characters and their family/story connections escaped me.
She was one of the UN pilots put in the Nothung models when they took over the island in the first series.

As the person writing the reviews, I need to put extra effort into keeping track of names.
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Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by Henyo » Sun Nov 15, 2015 4:56 am

have to agree with the drop in animation quality. i spotted the fafners being "traditionally animated" than the usual smooth CG. especially Kouyou's. or maybe this was a bit intentional for his unit since its an old model?

the current episode really threw a curveball. it wasn't Kenji or Sakura who got hit with the Death flag.(Technical death flag, but still.) and they're the ones who raised those. there's also Seri's llines.
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Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by Amion » Sun Nov 15, 2015 2:38 pm

EDIT: Didn't have time to fully post. I think the animation for today's episode was fine. It's just I'm not sure the plot has been moving in the best way.

Addmittedly I'm almost wishing Kasugai wasn't back, or at least remained Festum like Akane. His complete Human Restoration feels like something that just doesn't fit. Oh well. Hopefully we see his island's Mir return to us.

I was surprised at the sacrifice, but ultimately the best part of the episode for me was the last four minutes of the Exodus group. That part of the story has become far more interesting to me and I firmly believe the best course of action is for the story to progress with them for the majority of the remaining episodes. The Fafner world is FAR too good to explore for us to stay stuck on battered Tatsumiyajima.

Also, I just finished the original series, and so far the only big unanswered question was this: why did they have a core on B island? The obvious answer is that the Girl/Boy In the Tube setup was an Arcadian thing, but it was clear from dialogue in the show that Tsubaki was a useful accident, not intentional plan, same with the Well of Urd. But we clearly have identical structures on Greece-stylized B island.

This brings up the question of why it was Japan alone who started the project. It looks to me like they intentionally got other cultures on the different islands. If that's so, I assume they're still out there, just hiding safe and sound, and probably without the Mt. Fuji Mir or whatnot.

Hmm...continuity errors aside, I found the original series to still be awesome in its last five episodes, and I'm hoping the next six will be just as perfect for Exodus. Only now I'm realizing that I won't be able to enjoy Koyo's return unless they really up their development for him. So far characters are slipping through the cracks, and that's a shame because they're all so cool. Perhaps we're in for some dialogue heavy episodes that focus on drama instead of combat, like the original. That would be great, and it would make the last battle all the more sweet against Caelus and Neptune.
Last edited by Amion on Sun Nov 15, 2015 5:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by Raikoh » Sun Nov 15, 2015 5:15 pm

I didn't really notice a change in quality but perhaps it's because the action was well-written enough that I don't really mind things like a lot of characters being more static. The scene was very tense. As long as the writing stands up it can handle drops in quality, and Exodus still is one of the best looking anime of the season, year, all time, D. All of the above.

Also
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Curse of Goubain struck really quickly this time. They should seal off that helmet, or at least make sure that anyone who wears it while piloting has it locked to their head every second of every battle.
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Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Sun Nov 15, 2015 7:29 pm

Amion wrote:Also, I just finished the original series, and so far the only big unanswered question was this: why did they have a core on B island? The obvious answer is that the Girl/Boy In the Tube setup was an Arcadian thing, but it was clear from dialogue in the show that Tsubaki was a useful accident, not intentional plan, same with the Well of Urd. But we clearly have identical structures on Greece-stylized B island.

This brings up the question of why it was Japan alone who started the project. It looks to me like they intentionally got other cultures on the different islands. If that's so, I assume they're still out there, just hiding safe and sound, and probably without the Mt. Fuji Mir or whatnot.
This is apparently explained in side materials. The island Idun came from is a knock off version of Alvis made by the UN from leaked data on the Arcadian project.

Japan is apparently where the Festum made first contact. They found ancient Mir buried in their land which brought down more Festum and resulted in the Japanese people becoming sterile.
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Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by LightningCount » Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:42 am

Amion wrote:EDIT: Didn't have time to fully post. I think the animation for today's episode was fine. It's just I'm not sure the plot has been moving in the best way...ultimately the best part of the episode for me was the last four minutes of the Exodus group. That part of the story has become far more interesting to me and I firmly believe the best course of action is for the story to progress with them for the majority of the remaining episodes. The Fafner world is FAR too good to explore for us to stay stuck on battered Tatsumiyajima.
I haven't seen Ep.20 yet, but I've been feeling the same thing. Season 2 started off so strongly, and then it seemed to hit a wall when they went back to Tatsumiyajima. I know there are a lot of Canon fans here, but the "non-stop Canon show" just didn't work for me in how it was executed. If we had 50 episodes to work with, I might feel differently.

Anyway, they needed to do something to further connect the two plots at this late in the game with so few episodes to work with. I almost wonder if the island should have been destroyed, forcing an "Exodus" of all characters to carry on what they've learned about the peaceful island life to the outside world to tie it all together. And yes, the outside world of Fafner has always been so fascinating, which is why I was a big fan of what Exodus was doing so much in Season 1. It is still doing interesting things, but I don't know if it has enough time to explore everything it already established.

I've detailed some stuff in the last few posts, but I've gotten a little concerned as of late; especially with how consistently paced Argevollen has been for me by comparison. I've got about the same amount of episodes left on (my late-to-the-party viewing of) that as Exodus, and Argevollen feels like it easily has enough time to tie up its threads in a fitting manner, both world- and character-wise.
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Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by Amion » Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:42 pm

To be fair, there are six episodes left and Fafner could make serious tracks in six episodes if it wanted to. I expect Exodus to be no different.

The tie-in was showed during one of those "Canon" shows, Count. Altair is going to land very close to the island, apparently. Assuming that thing we saw was in fact it.

I agree that the wall where everything went back to Tatsumiyajima has hurt. Especially since we will see the Exodus group headed back there for the finale. Not an utter flaw, but one I'd call the creators out on. It's time to let go of the island, people. There's not much left of it anyways.

Speaking to Destiny: but the characters clearly state there was more than one island created. So why wouldn't that be an Arcadian island too? I rather dislike the sound of this side material. It feels like it contradicts even more. Like with the record behind the Old Hag in Exodus, and her talk of how humans communicated with Festum while searching for extraterrestrial life. and paid the price.

Though admittedly, the ancient Mir being uncovered does a good job of filling in the gaps in what we know.
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Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Fri Nov 20, 2015 7:53 pm

Man, my death flag detector blew up half way into the episode.
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Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by Amion » Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:54 am

Destiny_Gundam wrote:Man, my death flag detector blew up half way into the episode.
That bodes ill.
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Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by Henyo » Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:25 pm

Destiny_Gundam wrote:Man, my death flag detector blew up half way into the episode.
i detected something else...STRAIGHT! after that many episodes of BL fuel they added in a touching Kazuki and Maya scene. but then again, Fujoshis(and danshis alike) still got something from Soushi. XD
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