Fafner: Exodus

The place to discuss anything relating to anime or manga.
Post Reply
User avatar
Dark Duel
Posts: 4789
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:39 pm
Location: A blue City in a red State

Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by Dark Duel » Sat Oct 10, 2015 12:40 am

Just watched Ep14 - late, I know - and watching 15. As for what happened at the end of 14,
Spoiler
Show
I don't give a rat's you-know-what about what his reasons may be, that was cold-blooded friggin' murder, with no justification whatsoever. If it had been a situation like in Ep 9-ish, when there were assimilated Fafner units in play, I'd understand. But what he did was unjustifiable. On any level.
If there is a Fafner-on-Fafner battle, I hope to see that murdering fanatic butchered as graphically and violently as possible.
And if what D_G mentioned above is correct, that makes him a bloody hypocrite, which is even worse.
I'll probably chime in tomorrow once I've watched 15. Right now, I'm going to go to bed.
// ART THREAD // NOT ACCEPTING REQUESTS
// GUNPLA THREAD //

"You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turn of the worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she ought to fall down. Tells you she's hurting before she keens. Makes her a home."

User avatar
Amion
Posts: 2167
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:43 pm

Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by Amion » Sat Oct 10, 2015 2:03 pm

Dark Duel wrote:Just watched Ep14 - late, I know - and watching 15. As for what happened at the end of 14,
Spoiler
Show
I don't give a rat's you-know-what about what his reasons may be, that was cold-blooded friggin' murder, with no justification whatsoever. If it had been a situation like in Ep 9-ish, when there were assimilated Fafner units in play, I'd understand. But what he did was unjustifiable. On any level.
If there is a Fafner-on-Fafner battle, I hope to see that murdering fanatic butchered as graphically and violently as possible.
And if what D_G mentioned above is correct, that makes him a bloody hypocrite, which is even worse.
I'll probably chime in tomorrow once I've watched 15. Right now, I'm going to go to bed.
This is what I've been wanting to say, but didn't until I saw what he decided to do about
Spoiler
Show
his dear brother. This is why I claim people like him are poor commanders who can't take responsibility. I'd have at least a modicum of respect for his sense of ethics if he was willing to kill Billy because he feels its necessary. It's why I like characters like Loulouch. Good leaders shoulder the responsibilities and accept the consequences. This guy, on the other hand, has shown he's just a soldier who's not using his head when he needs to be.

That old hag, after all, is about to end up wit ha coup on her hands. People who have someone like her in charge for so long should thinking a little!
They don't know the power of a balanced vision.

User avatar
Raikoh
Posts: 489
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:42 pm

Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by Raikoh » Sat Oct 10, 2015 9:24 pm

I'm absolutely blown away at the start of Exodus' second cour. I love how Fafner has actually been handling the storytelling. It assumes the viewer has seen everything that came before it and isn't trying to restate exposition just for the convenience of people popping in like some other anime, especially split cour ones. Granted, this practice has probably been what keeps some people out of the franchise, since it's over 10 years old now, but it makes it all the more noble and obvious that Exodus is made out of a desire to continue the story, not bring in a new audience. What exposition we do get is new stuff that's interesting, like Soushi talking about his experience involving the Festum (which made little sense to me, as well).

Usually I'm against split cour in general, but with Exodus it's clear that they simply cut the script down the middle in order to conserve budget and didn't make any alterations due to having to have the second half happen at a later date. Given the absolutely stunning animation in Exodus, I'd say they made the right choice.

I was expecting Exodus to be my Anime of the Year assuming the second cour didn't drop the ball. Now it certainly has given me faith in solidifying that belief.

It wouldn't be Fafner without loads of death, now would it?
THE WORLD IS NOT SQUARE

User avatar
Dark Duel
Posts: 4789
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:39 pm
Location: A blue City in a red State

Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by Dark Duel » Sun Oct 11, 2015 11:13 am

Okay, so I finally watched Ep15, and I stand by what I said in my previous post about how much I want to see Dustin die a horrible death. As brutal as possible. Same goes for that chick in his squad.

That being said, that Azazel-type they went up against today (IIRC the same one that ate the Azazel-type Kazuki and Sushi faced around ep 9-10-ish) is just about the freakiest thing I've ever seen in this show. And apparently
Spoiler
Show
there is yet another Azazel-type floating up there in low-earth orbit, which is a bit freaky.
I kinda have to wonder what the NUN plans to do with
Spoiler
Show
the captured MkV. It does occur to me that this is the third time a Nothung-Model comes into the possession of the Neo-UN, and the second time they obtain it following the pilot's "death" - though it is the first time that the NUN directly causes the death of an Alvis pilot IIRC.

A thought occurs to me that the Core of the MkV could be used for that weird gold Fafner that was in the Part 2 trailer.
Anyway, other than that the episode was pretty great overall. It was nice to see Nicht using its back-mounted laser guns again, hadn't seen that for a while. I'm especially intrigued by what Miwa, Emery and Sushi are going to be trying to do and what it means for the future development of the series.
I also kinda hope we go back to the Island again soon. I miss Canon.
// ART THREAD // NOT ACCEPTING REQUESTS
// GUNPLA THREAD //

"You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turn of the worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she ought to fall down. Tells you she's hurting before she keens. Makes her a home."

User avatar
Amion
Posts: 2167
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:43 pm

Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by Amion » Sun Oct 11, 2015 11:45 am

Dark Duel wrote: I miss Canon.
Don't we all? :)

And yes, Dustin has a loooong way to go before I decide his head doesn't deserve to be in that crate alongside his victim. Perish, Dustin, perish. :evil: His Fafner is baddass though, with that sleek Anubis nemes-type sensor scheme just hits the right buttons for me, especially its sleek movements. Why couldn't Nicht and Sein have visors like that? I keep trying to like Sein, and failing.

Yes, the Azazels are starting to give me serious Angel vibes, a la Evangalion. That's not good. Not good at all.

And...and was that boy-in-the-tube him from the movie?! Or are we about to see another island from the Arcadia project?

Edit: Ok. I have a very bad feeling now. I'm going to just say it, and this is a theory I've had since the very beginning: General Narain is the "spy". I mean, we all know the Gregory type blond boy is the true culprit, but I feel like Narain is involved somehow.

I know, I know, that theory has little factual support to back it up about Narain, but that very quick, ominous scene when he
Spoiler
Show
stares at the map monitor to determine their final destination
gave me a sinking sensation. Think about it: Narain and Emery said they tested everyone, but does that include Narain? He would know everything they do, and the Azazels have clearly been shown to know that much, if not predict much more with their Mir intellects.

If it's not Narain, than Emery is being influenced somehow by Ghost Boy. My guess is he's actually a Azazel himself, just somehow disguised and avoiding the Mir. Maybe that's his "power"?
They don't know the power of a balanced vision.

User avatar
LightningCount
Posts: 919
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:02 pm

Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by LightningCount » Sun Oct 11, 2015 8:52 pm

I haven't seen Episode 15 yet, but I wanted to say two more things about Dustin based on Season 1 and Episode 14, just to be fair. 1.) Yes, we can have an emotional reaction because we were led to be invested in a certain character, but we have to remember that Canon, who was a Human Army soldier when we first met her, wasn't exactly Miss Congeniality herself. She almost blew up the island, as I recall. She was just as cold-blooded and dominated by cold, unforgiving logic and orders from her own set of experiences in the harsh world of Fafner. 2.) And the hypocritical thing I see, if we're going to use that word, is that viewers have harsh words for military characters in the Gundam franchise who act "against" orders when it suits them; but here we have a man in Dustin who is carrying out his orders, even if they're harsh or short-sighted, and he's getting hammered, too. We can't have it both ways! I call foul! :P

Plus, he's already shown himself to have a soft underbelly in how he was concerned for Billy and tried to keep him away from the frontlines. So, he's not without any feeling. We'll see where that conflict leads him.
Raikoh wrote:I'm absolutely blown away at the start of Exodus' second cour. I love how Fafner has actually been handling the storytelling. It assumes the viewer has seen everything that came before it and isn't trying to restate exposition just for the convenience of people popping in like some other anime, especially split cour ones.
I agree, and I will say that I'm so happy about this, because if you think about it, this could have very easily turned out to be a retelling of the original series with a new generation of pilots. But it's much more than that.

The question remains: Will this ever get licensed for home release? (Right of Left OVA never did, after all.)
My Mecha/Scifi Novels: https://www.goodreads.com/series/168677 ... -war-arm-x
"May you rest in peace, the betrayed and outraged Milliardo Peacecraft."
Most-Wanted Gundam Anime: Episode Zero, Blue Destiny, Rise from the Ashes, Crossbone

User avatar
Destiny_Gundam
Posts: 5102
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:36 pm
Location: Canada, eh.
Contact:

Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Sun Oct 11, 2015 9:08 pm

Canon was a kid who was molded to be the way she is. Dustin is a grown man who knows better. Yes his actions are "right" as a soldier but he should know that morally it's wrong. The fact that he tries to save Billy shows that he is willing to defy ROE Alpha, if only for selfish personal reasons.

Mind you all this makes him complex as a character, which is good especially when Hester is usually cartoonishly villainous. But being well written and being likable are separate things.
"In the end, the world doesn't really need a Superman... Just a brave one."

User avatar
Amion
Posts: 2167
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:43 pm

Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by Amion » Sun Oct 11, 2015 11:08 pm

Destiny_Gundam wrote:Canon was a kid who was molded to be the way she is. Dustin is a grown man who knows better. Yes his actions are "right" as a soldier but he should know that morally it's wrong. The fact that he tries to save Billy shows that he is willing to defy ROE Alpha, if only for selfish personal reasons.

Mind you all this makes him complex as a character, which is good especially when Hester is usually cartoonishly villainous. But being well written and being likable are separate things.
Agreed.

I don't know, Count. I don't regularly if ever complain when a soldier violates orders for the sake of honoring his Higher Orders from morality. :) But, your point is still justified and a good observation. How do you do that?

As for ROE Alpha: let's not forget that this method of mass murdering comrades, while understandable, is costing lives and at this point isn't working. It's like the Old Hag's Triple Plan. Sure, it sounds all nice and logical and necessary in a cold way. But, the future is coming. The new Mir is about to arrive, either to join Mankind or consume it with vengeful Polaris.

Go back to the scene with the higher ups and it's VERY clear that there's a big rift in NUN at this point. Hag's plan apparently has cost time, personnel and civilian lives. ROE Alpha has been called in on the Exodus even when high ranking officials deemed it unnecessary. Moreover, this isn't a "Let's save our comrades agony by taking the Festum with them", it's a general plan to annhilate everyone associated with the Mirs. That arguably includes the Island, should NUN find them and bomb them to ashes. The Old Hag's consigned herself to taking the Festum with her, and she's dragging Humanity with her as far as they're willing to go.

Dustin and the literally stone-faced captain of that bomber are what's allowing her to do it. Dustin seems to be starting to think, so we'll see if his head gets removed from Duel's chopping block. :P

But at this point, there's obviously going to be a change in policy within NUN. Only question is: will the approaching Mir be friend or foe?

Who...will survive? :P
They don't know the power of a balanced vision.

User avatar
Raikoh
Posts: 489
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:42 pm

Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by Raikoh » Mon Oct 12, 2015 12:30 pm

Amion wrote:Who...will survive? :P
The only person who's basically guaranteed is Mizoguchi, and that's just because he has the absolutely crazy and brilliant strategy of constantly tripping death flags to the point where they cancel each other out.
THE WORLD IS NOT SQUARE

User avatar
Amion
Posts: 2167
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:43 pm

Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by Amion » Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:44 pm

And Soushi, considering he's narrating.:D
They don't know the power of a balanced vision.

User avatar
Destiny_Gundam
Posts: 5102
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:36 pm
Location: Canada, eh.
Contact:

Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:13 pm

Nope. Soushi said at the very start "If you're hearing this I no longer exist."

He's been spoiling things the whole damn series.
"In the end, the world doesn't really need a Superman... Just a brave one."

User avatar
LightningCount
Posts: 919
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:02 pm

Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by LightningCount » Tue Oct 13, 2015 2:12 am

Destiny_Gundam wrote:Nope. Soushi said at the very start "If you're hearing this I no longer exist."

He's been spoiling things the whole damn series.
:lol: I get the feeling we're in for a Gundam 00-style "dialogues to come" with Polaris via Soushi and/or Kazuki. It would fit with the narration and with what Soushi said about the Festum world in Episode 14. But, we'll see. Hopefully there will be more twists and turns before then. With the way the creators are using their show's time--like wisely using careful montages in Episode 14--they have a fair amount of wiggle room. By the way, do you think all 13 episodes of Season 2 are in the can, written and animated? Or, are they only like six episodes ahead of us viewers or something?
My Mecha/Scifi Novels: https://www.goodreads.com/series/168677 ... -war-arm-x
"May you rest in peace, the betrayed and outraged Milliardo Peacecraft."
Most-Wanted Gundam Anime: Episode Zero, Blue Destiny, Rise from the Ashes, Crossbone

User avatar
Destiny_Gundam
Posts: 5102
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:36 pm
Location: Canada, eh.
Contact:

Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:15 am

LightningCount wrote: :lol: I get the feeling we're in for a Gundam 00-style "dialogues to come" with Polaris via Soushi and/or Kazuki.
You mean Altair. Polaris was the North Pole Mir.

And anime production is a week by week thing. Even if they have a decent head start they don't get that far ahead. For more information, go watch Shirobako.
"In the end, the world doesn't really need a Superman... Just a brave one."

User avatar
Amion
Posts: 2167
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:43 pm

Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by Amion » Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:34 am

Goodness gracious I forgot! Thanks Destiny for setting me straight.

But remember the world we're in, he may still "exist" physically, but return to the nothingness on the event horizon of the near-nothingness of...you get the idea.

I hope that the issues once mentioned about the main writer and wife don't cause any narrative hiccups. Or was he the producer? I get those mixed up sometimes...
They don't know the power of a balanced vision.

User avatar
Dark Duel
Posts: 4789
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:39 pm
Location: A blue City in a red State

Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by Dark Duel » Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:57 am

Okay, so I just watched episode 16.
Spoiler
Show
Last time I posted here after seeing episode 15, I commented that I was hoping to return to the island soon, mainly because I missed Canon and she's probably my favorite character in Exodus other than Kazuki...the very next episode, I get my wish!

So the high-speed craft that were dispatched reach their destination, only to be attacked by the tall-and-skinny Azazel Type. It's heavily implied that the Azazel-Type in orbit is somehow communicating with the skinny one, which reappears immediately after the Island drops the Welles Shield to receive the approaching craft.
In typical Fafner fashion, despite the Island forces' best efforts, the craft are annihilated...though I'm puzzled at how Olga(at least I think it was her) ended up inside Amaterasu's cockpit. Sui, meanwhile, is dealing with major PTSD after a corpse appeared in his cockpit and splattered him and the inside of his machine with blood. Oh, and his mom's a hag. Not quite as bad as the Kasugai were, but still...

Orihime to me is still a curious dichotomy. On the one hand, during the battle she's callous to the point of being downright cold. On the other, I personally do not think it was a dream when Seri(?) saw her crying earlier on. I could be wrong, but that's my reading of it.

Meanwhile, Canon spends some time with the MkXIII trying to figure out just what the hell it is that she can now do, and a short conversation with Orihime seems to set her on the right path.

Then she has a vision like she did in Episode 13, but this time it's the mystery Fafner from the trailer, which is NOT in fact gold in color, but orange.

To me its lines still say "Salvatore Model", but they more evoke the original form of the Salvatore Model from the first series, rather than the enhanced forms of either Sein or Nicht - I could be mistaken, because it really looks nothing like either one in terms of the details. But I dunno. Then there's its color, which is almost the same as that of the MkIII.
Final verdict: Another awesome episode.
MkXIII is still my current favorite of the conventional Fafners, personally.
// ART THREAD // NOT ACCEPTING REQUESTS
// GUNPLA THREAD //

"You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turn of the worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she ought to fall down. Tells you she's hurting before she keens. Makes her a home."

User avatar
Destiny_Gundam
Posts: 5102
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:36 pm
Location: Canada, eh.
Contact:

Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:36 am

Dark Duel wrote:
Spoiler
Show
though I'm puzzled at how Olga(at least I think it was her) ended up inside Amaterasu's cockpit.
Spoiler
Show
Sui has the power to teleport things to him, remember?

Also that gold Fafner Canon saw is obviously some sort of Festum hybrid.
"In the end, the world doesn't really need a Superman... Just a brave one."

User avatar
Raikoh
Posts: 489
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:42 pm

Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by Raikoh » Sat Oct 17, 2015 3:11 pm

As much as I love the traveling with Kazuki and Soushi, the island plot is the one that's really got me on the edge of my seat. I think it's mostly because it's far more personal and I prefer that kind of story, I have no problems with people who disagree and say that the eponymous Exodus is the more engaging plot for them.

More great direction, really bringing out the absolute best of the actors and building the storyboards masterfully. The suspense just keeps building up.
THE WORLD IS NOT SQUARE

User avatar
Destiny_Gundam
Posts: 5102
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:36 pm
Location: Canada, eh.
Contact:

Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Sat Oct 17, 2015 3:28 pm

I think they're doing a brilliant job keeping the two storylines balanced. They're different but with enough parallels that they compliment each other well.
"In the end, the world doesn't really need a Superman... Just a brave one."

User avatar
Amion
Posts: 2167
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:43 pm

Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by Amion » Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:16 pm

I agree with Destiny, the balance is very good so far, save for a couple of bumps where they had to cut some scenes during the battle at the World Tree. Other then that the plot has been most engaging in both areas equally.
They don't know the power of a balanced vision.

User avatar
LightningCount
Posts: 919
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:02 pm

Re: Fafner: Exodus

Post by LightningCount » Sun Oct 18, 2015 6:44 pm

Amion wrote:I agree with Destiny, the balance is very good so far, save for a couple of bumps where they had to cut some scenes during the battle at the World Tree. Other then that the plot has been most engaging in both areas equally.
Yeah, the World Tree battle was probably the only part where I'd say things didn't run as smoothly as I would have wanted. I like how they're balancing both parts. Like I always say, when you can have parallel stories going on, where characters are separated and have to improvise with new environments and new characters, that's where you have some of the best world/character development in a series. Personally, I think the Human Army/Exodus part of it is what makes this series fresh; the island stuff is great, but it's more of an extension/reworking of the franchise as we know it rather than a full expansion. Having both, though, provides the best of both worlds, and is most impressive.

Watched Episode 15. Amazing stuff, yet again; but I have to say, as much as I like the Fafner franchise, it kind of has a macabre aura that can be depressing. It has such an exciting story, and yet, it can oddly leave you feeling down.

Regardless of that, I'm a little nervous they're going to try to
Spoiler
Show
reverse Hirato's death with some Festum magic. I think that'd lessen the impact.


I wonder if the
Spoiler
Show
person in the red crystal is Koyo? That'd be neat.


Time will tell.
My Mecha/Scifi Novels: https://www.goodreads.com/series/168677 ... -war-arm-x
"May you rest in peace, the betrayed and outraged Milliardo Peacecraft."
Most-Wanted Gundam Anime: Episode Zero, Blue Destiny, Rise from the Ashes, Crossbone

Post Reply