Is Tomino's work an acquired taste?

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Zeino
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Is Tomino's work an acquired taste?

Post by Zeino » Sun Dec 14, 2014 12:30 am

This is something I've been wondering about recently because of G-Reco. See while response of it here has been mostly positive, other places I go to that deal with anime like Anime News Network and My Anime List have not been so receptive of it. Of course, that's only if they bother to watch it at all but of the people that are and I've spoken to, their impressions of it have been mostly uniformly negative with the standard criticisms of Reconguista being a narratively disjointed mess where very little is explained right away and characters behave bizarrely and spout unnatural dialogue. This are things that we here kind of take as a given with Tomino slowly unveiling the bigger picture like he did in Turn A and find the oddness of his characters to be part of his series' charm.

This makes me wonder of how far apart our taste is from the general anime fandom. We are nowadays after all, a niche fandom in a fandom that made of hundreds of them whose heyday in the West passed in the early 2000s. Is his work out of step with modern anime fans and their sensibilities or it something they just haven't learned to appreciate?
Last edited by Zeino on Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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HellCat
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Re: Is Tomino's work an acquired taste?

Post by HellCat » Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:33 am

I tend to lump Tomino in with the likes of Rodenberry and Lucas. People who had a good idea but certainly not one they could develop/pull off alone and certainly not the magic sages marketting would like us to see them as.

I think Tomino is opinionated but inconsistent and this is echoed in his works. It took me about 4 episodes to care about Reco because of how much self indulgent whimsy he was putting in. He can do some good stuff and deserves some freedom, but I don't think he's the capable visionary even he seems to think he is. I do wonder how I'd be viewing Reco if I wasn't in the exact same time frame finding Try to be underwhelming.
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Re: Is Tomino's work an acquired taste?

Post by latenlazy » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:54 pm

HellCat wrote:I tend to lump Tomino in with the likes of Rodenberry and Lucas. People who had a good idea but certainly not one they could develop/pull off alone and certainly not the magic sages marketting would like us to see them as.

I think Tomino is opinionated but inconsistent and this is echoed in his works. It took me about 4 episodes to care about Reco because of how much self indulgent whimsy he was putting in. He can do some good stuff and deserves some freedom, but I don't think he's the capable visionary even he seems to think he is. I do wonder how I'd be viewing Reco if I wasn't in the exact same time frame finding Try to be underwhelming.
I would put Tomino many tiers above Lucas. Tomino falls along the veins of writers who like to take their time to build the context of a story. It usually doesn't pay off until the last quarter of the series, where most of the setup finally explodes into rapid but well supported narrative and character developments. Along the way he keeps things compelling through the world building and (sometimes slow) development of his characters that build up. However, it's not in a way younger generations would be used to. Unlike nearly everyone else in the world of film today, Tomino does not employ much psychoanalysis. A lot of people may feel like you can't get into the heads of his characters, and for many today that makes a story either discomforting or uninteresting. It's because he sets the frame of reference from an observation's perspective.

Ultimately I would say Tomino's works are often deep, but they don't evoke a sense of the profound. What keeps him from getting to the latter point is how inaccessible he can be to a lay audience. Tomino's shows always have a lot to offer, but he demands that the audience decipher it first. In fact, I would say that without all the side materials that came with his earlier UC works over the decades shows like MSG and Zeta and characters like Char and Amuro would not have attained the level of popularity and transparency that they have today.

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Re: Is Tomino's work an acquired taste?

Post by SonicSP » Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:04 pm

HellCat wrote:I tend to lump Tomino in with the likes of Rodenberry and Lucas. People who had a good idea but certainly not one they could develop/pull off alone and certainly not the magic sages marketting would like us to see them as.

I think Tomino is opinionated but inconsistent and this is echoed in his works. It took me about 4 episodes to care about Reco because of how much self indulgent whimsy he was putting in. He can do some good stuff and deserves some freedom, but I don't think he's the capable visionary even he seems to think he is. I do wonder how I'd be viewing Reco if I wasn't in the exact same time frame finding Try to be underwhelming.
Eight or nine episodes in and I'm still struggling to find myself to care about G-Reco. I think I cared about AGE a lot more at the same episode count.

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Re: Is Tomino's work an acquired taste?

Post by Amion » Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:58 pm

latenlazy wrote:
HellCat wrote:I tend to lump Tomino in with the likes of Rodenberry and Lucas. People who had a good idea but certainly not one they could develop/pull off alone and certainly not the magic sages marketting would like us to see them as.

I think Tomino is opinionated but inconsistent and this is echoed in his works. It took me about 4 episodes to care about Reco because of how much self indulgent whimsy he was putting in. He can do some good stuff and deserves some freedom, but I don't think he's the capable visionary even he seems to think he is. I do wonder how I'd be viewing Reco if I wasn't in the exact same time frame finding Try to be underwhelming.
I would put Tomino many tiers above Lucas. Tomino falls along the veins of writers who like to take their time to build the context of a story. It usually doesn't pay off until the last quarter of the series, where most of the setup finally explodes into rapid but well supported narrative and character developments. Along the way he keeps things compelling through the world building and (sometimes slow) development of his characters that build up. However, it's not in a way younger generations would be used to. Unlike nearly everyone else in the world of film today, Tomino does not employ much psychoanalysis. A lot of people may feel like you can't get into the heads of his characters, and for many today that makes a story either discomforting or uninteresting. It's because he sets the frame of reference from an observation's perspective.

Ultimately I would say Tomino's works are often deep, but they don't evoke a sense of the profound. What keeps him from getting to the latter point is how inaccessible he can be to a lay audience. Tomino's shows always have a lot to offer, but he demands that the audience decipher it first. In fact, I would say that without all the side materials that came with his earlier UC works over the decades shows like MSG and Zeta and characters like Char and Amuro would not have attained the level of popularity and transparency that they have today.
I agree with most of this. For me, the only real issue I've had with Reco is some of Tomino's whimsical humor. But that's his humor so that's something I take at face value and accept.

I do think that Amuro and Char got pretty good development though. By Char's Counterattack Char himself was already quite well developed in my mind, and I've never seen any of this side material and only got what was presented in the shows.
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Re: Is Tomino's work an acquired taste?

Post by excalibur2008 » Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:33 pm

Amion wrote:
latenlazy wrote:
HellCat wrote:I tend to lump Tomino in with the likes of Rodenberry and Lucas. People who had a good idea but certainly not one they could develop/pull off alone and certainly not the magic sages marketting would like us to see them as.

I think Tomino is opinionated but inconsistent and this is echoed in his works. It took me about 4 episodes to care about Reco because of how much self indulgent whimsy he was putting in. He can do some good stuff and deserves some freedom, but I don't think he's the capable visionary even he seems to think he is. I do wonder how I'd be viewing Reco if I wasn't in the exact same time frame finding Try to be underwhelming.
I would put Tomino many tiers above Lucas. Tomino falls along the veins of writers who like to take their time to build the context of a story. It usually doesn't pay off until the last quarter of the series, where most of the setup finally explodes into rapid but well supported narrative and character developments. Along the way he keeps things compelling through the world building and (sometimes slow) development of his characters that build up. However, it's not in a way younger generations would be used to. Unlike nearly everyone else in the world of film today, Tomino does not employ much psychoanalysis. A lot of people may feel like you can't get into the heads of his characters, and for many today that makes a story either discomforting or uninteresting. It's because he sets the frame of reference from an observation's perspective.

Ultimately I would say Tomino's works are often deep, but they don't evoke a sense of the profound. What keeps him from getting to the latter point is how inaccessible he can be to a lay audience. Tomino's shows always have a lot to offer, but he demands that the audience decipher it first. In fact, I would say that without all the side materials that came with his earlier UC works over the decades shows like MSG and Zeta and characters like Char and Amuro would not have attained the level of popularity and transparency that they have today.
I agree with most of this. For me, the only real issue I've had with Reco is some of Tomino's whimsical humor. But that's his humor so that's something I take at face value and accept.

I do think that Amuro and Char got pretty good development though. By Char's Counterattack Char himself was already quite well developed in my mind, and I've never seen any of this side material and only got what was presented in the shows.
Actually I though Mobile Suit Gundam was easy to follow, it just had a problem of suddenly shifting into encounters with random Zeon solders of the week after Garma bough it up until the show remembered that Ramba Ral was supposed to be the current antagonist and dealt with him.

Also that Whitbase's journey to Jaburo is confusing as heck.

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Re: Is Tomino's work an acquired taste?

Post by Xenosynth » Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:20 pm

My other problem with the Roddenberry/Lucas comparison is that, IMO, Tomino's gotten a bit better as he's gone on, not worse, his middle stage being the time where he made more 'meh' things. At least to me. Gene was fine with 1960's trek (Though he pulled some really douchey things that make his shoehorning in of his politics and beliefs in TNG to be really hypocritical.) and then got worse as time went on, seemingly because he wanted to rebel against the militarization of the Federation shown in the movies which he lost creative control over after The Motion Picture and because he built up the 'perfection' of the Federation so hard into his head that he didn't want to show it with any imperfections (NO CONFLICT AMONG THE CREW! as early rules for TNG stories was a pretty dumb thing.)

G-Reco is proving to be really fun for me actually as of the last few episodes, and I'm greatly enjoying it. I did think the start was slow, but not bad. Turn A is still one of my other favorites, and that's also heavily a Tomino work, so I dunno. I just feel it's a bit of an insult comparing him to those two when he eventually got his footing back, instead his career ending with awful (Though if we wanna compare negatives, Garzey's Wing is about on par with being a crime against the visual medium as Season 1/2 of TNG and Phantom Menace are.)

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Re: Is Tomino's work an acquired taste?

Post by latenlazy » Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:32 pm

Amion wrote:I do think that Amuro and Char got pretty good development though. By Char's Counterattack Char himself was already quite well developed in my mind, and I've never seen any of this side material and only got what was presented in the shows.
I thought Amuro and Char got pretty good development within MSG too, but I can't help but wonder how much of my final opinion about Char and Amuro as characters was influenced by all the content I could read online after every episode. By the time I had watched MSG there was over 25 years of summaries, character histories, novels, sequels etc, that I myself may not have watched up to that point but could read up on. I can't imagine how much more attention I would have had to pay to details in MSG if there weren't timelines and explanations and backstories I could read (like Mark Simmon's first site). How could all those assists I could find on the internet not enrich the series for me in ways that wouldn't be possible if the the material didn't exist. Then you pile on all the time people had to analyze and break down those things. By the time I was watching CCA I didn't have to read between the lines on my own. If I didn't get something there was already a timeline or an explanation for it somewhere. I can only speak for myself though.

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Re: Is Tomino's work an acquired taste?

Post by HellCat » Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:47 am

Tomino tends to put his opinions across in interviews, less so in his shows. There have been a ton of them alongside Reco with claims which range from 'Huh, interesting' to '...Okay'. Given this is the man who one day wants Gundam remembered as a classic and the next is telling people to let it die and be forgotten, it does colour the impression of less a veteran with informed opinions and more an old man shouting from his porch. Many times the opinions he expresses strike me as attention seeking more than anything else.

Where this wraps back in to his work can actually seen well in Reco. In a recent event the staff told us an upcoming episode was really good. Which episode? The one Tomino has been the most hands off with thus far. Given this, examples of his work, the complicated history of Gundam and statements where he'd say his work was better than 'Current Popular Show', I do think the comparison I made is valid. All three are controversial creators who created an intriguing setting that was arguably done better by later talent.
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Re: Is Tomino's work an acquired taste?

Post by Henyo » Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:07 am

the problem i think, is that Tomino's best works are too old. and many anime fans cannot watch old anime for one reason or another.(number one of course is the animation.) they are missing out right?

personally, i enjoy Tomino's works. L.Gaim is fun to watch even if the plot doesn't move much. i have yet to watch any of his works in the 2000s leaving me up until Brain powerd. that one i have mixed feelings with. the mecha and character designs are good. the plot though is..so so. i stopped at episode 14.
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Re: Is Tomino's work an acquired taste?

Post by GVmanX » Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:01 pm

I'd like to say his work is universal, but I possibly love his stuff too much. For example, I think Brain Powerd is a great show, and G-Reco is one of those things that struck me as something you'd show to someone who is brand-spanking new to anime as something easy to watch. Clearly, I'm in the minority in this. I can't agree with HellCat's statement, but I also think I think too much like Tomino. (As a 23-year-old man, this doesn't bode well for how I'll behave in my old age.) His was some of the first anime I ever watched, and it has colored what I look for in anime, and entertainment as a whole, ever since. It's probably just a matter of getting to someone at the right age; I was 15 when I watched Ideon in the summer of 2007, and I started the MSG movie trilogy that Christmas.

@Henyo: Yeah. People tend to want that new, shiny, digital animation and call stuff from 2004 "old." Admittedly, some of the current anime fans were probably only three or four-years-old then, so it is somewhat understandable. Honestly-speaking, I might not care for cell animation myself if it wasn't for Toonami back in the day getting me to enjoy that over digital stuff.

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Re: Is Tomino's work an acquired taste?

Post by Quiddity » Sun Nov 08, 2015 11:45 pm

Xenosynth wrote:My other problem with the Roddenberry/Lucas comparison is that, IMO, Tomino's gotten a bit better as he's gone on, not worse, his middle stage being the time where he made more 'meh' things. At least to me. Gene was fine with 1960's trek (Though he pulled some really douchey things that make his shoehorning in of his politics and beliefs in TNG to be really hypocritical.) and then got worse as time went on, seemingly because he wanted to rebel against the militarization of the Federation shown in the movies which he lost creative control over after The Motion Picture and because he built up the 'perfection' of the Federation so hard into his head that he didn't want to show it with any imperfections (NO CONFLICT AMONG THE CREW! as early rules for TNG stories was a pretty dumb thing.)
I'd disagree; I think Tomino went on a monster run for quite a while, starting in the late 70's, being fairly strong throughout the 80's (his only weak 80's work IMHO is Gundam ZZ, and even that show has parts of it that are good), and based on one's feelings about his later Gundam works one could argue slightly into the 90's as well. During that run you not only have the groundbreaking show in original MS Gundam, you've also got Zeta, Ideon, Zambot, Dunbine and L-Gaim, all of which are great or groundbreaking shows.

After Victory for me (some who don't care for Victory or F91 would argue after Char's Counterattack) he becomes largely hit or miss. Turn A Gundam is amazing. Brain Powered is a mess. Wings of Rean is a mess. G-Reco and King Gainer are mixed bags. I think Tomino is a great ideas man. G-Reco and King Gainer both had amazing ideas and are very unique in their own way. I think where he trips up is trying to fit too much in when he either doesn't have room (G-Reco is probably as good an example as any on this) or he causes major pacing problems for himself which results in that same outcome. Which is something one could argue has been there since the beginning, but I think in this age the shorter series lengths don't help him and the fact is that I think there are certain things (such as having a battle in literally every single episode) that aren't as critical these days in the medium but he still goes with.
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Re: Is Tomino's work an acquired taste?

Post by Zeonista » Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:09 pm

Zeino wrote: This makes me wonder of how far apart our taste is from the general anime fandom. We are nowadays after all, a niche fandom in a fandom that made of hundreds of them whose heyday in the West passed in the early 2000s. Is his work out of step with modern anime fans and their sensibilities or it something they just haven't learned to appreciate?
Hmm.. it is a an interesting question. Much of Tomino's work made up the majority of mecha anime (and SF anime in general) when I was a n00b fan, so his work wasn't an acquired taste, it was mandatory viewing! His stories have only gotten better (to me) since subtitled versions have become available and I have been able to get deeper into the stories than the basic plot highlights. Sure, Tomino-sama has his directorial and creative quirks, but his stories have been able to reach an international audience and are a lot easier to follow than some other anime makers' shows.

For G-Reco, I think most of the criticism that can be fairly leveled at it by us and the anime community in general is that it wasn't a true Gundam show. Yeah, a Gundam-like MS or two was put into it, and some UC terminology was used, but it was obvious to me from episode 1 that the anime had been created as an original story and then kitbashed into a Gundam series to please Big Daddy Namco-Bandai. So many of the story elements and characters were similar to Tomino's earlier non-Gundam mecha anime that it got in the way sometimes. G-Reco had interesting characters, interesting mecha, and some thoughtful effort put into tech,lifestyle, and futuristic culture. But the story was a mess, and took a while to stop creating a world and get into third gear.

This made me a little disappointed in Namco-Bandai, if not Tomino himself. If they wanted a big anniversary Gundam anime by Tomino-sama, that is what they should have made a deal for, and not have begged him to adapt his current project. Tomino has made interesting non-Gundam anime, and if G-Reco had been its original self and not an adaptation, we as collective fandom would have received it better. Blue Gale Xabungle, Heavy Metal Warrior L-Gaim, and Aura Battler Dunbine are excellent mecha anime that are not Gundam, but have won fan acclaim on their own merit. Putting the Gundam brand on an anime creates expectations, which in that case were not met, and the fans said so. I suppose these days UC Gundam has become the work of many hands and imaginations, and has left little room for a new idea by its creator that doesn't get radical in attempt to get some attention. Why he can't get Crossbone Gundam approved for production is unknown to me.
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Re: Is Tomino's work an acquired taste?

Post by Amion » Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:36 pm

Zeonista wrote:
Zeino wrote: This makes me wonder of how far apart our taste is from the general anime fandom. We are nowadays after all, a niche fandom in a fandom that made of hundreds of them whose heyday in the West passed in the early 2000s. Is his work out of step with modern anime fans and their sensibilities or it something they just haven't learned to appreciate?
Hmm.. it is a an interesting question. Much of Tomino's work made up the majority of mecha anime (and SF anime in general) when I was a n00b fan, so his work wasn't an acquired taste, it was mandatory viewing! His stories have only gotten better (to me) since subtitled versions have become available and I have been able to get deeper into the stories than the basic plot highlights. Sure, Tomino-sama has his directorial and creative quirks, but his stories have been able to reach an international audience and are a lot easier to follow than some other anime makers' shows.

For G-Reco, I think most of the criticism that can be fairly leveled at it by us and the anime community in general is that it wasn't a true Gundam show. Yeah, a Gundam-like MS or two was put into it, and some UC terminology was used, but it was obvious to me from episode 1 that the anime had been created as an original story and then kitbashed into a Gundam series to please Big Daddy Namco-Bandai. So many of the story elements and characters were similar to Tomino's earlier non-Gundam mecha anime that it got in the way sometimes. G-Reco had interesting characters, interesting mecha, and some thoughtful effort put into tech,lifestyle, and futuristic culture. But the story was a mess, and took a while to stop creating a world and get into third gear.

This made me a little disappointed in Namco-Bandai, if not Tomino himself. If they wanted a big anniversary Gundam anime by Tomino-sama, that is what they should have made a deal for, and not have begged him to adapt his current project. Tomino has made interesting non-Gundam anime, and if G-Reco had been its original self and not an adaptation, we as collective fandom would have received it better. Blue Gale Xabungle, Heavy Metal Warrior L-Gaim, and Aura Battler Dunbine are excellent mecha anime that are not Gundam, but have won fan acclaim on their own merit. Putting the Gundam brand on an anime creates expectations, which in that case were not met, and the fans said so. I suppose these days UC Gundam has become the work of many hands and imaginations, and has left little room for a new idea by its creator that doesn't get radical in attempt to get some attention. Why he can't get Crossbone Gundam approved for production is unknown to me.
I would have ultimately had mixed and negative feelings for Reco even if it'd not been a Gundam show. I enjoyed it for the unique elements wilist it ran, and very swiftly lost interest afterward.

As for Crossbone...I have no idea. It's more like modern Gundam shows than any of his other works, and is incredible in its own right. It's even UC. Why it's in this cold, dark place in the mind of Bandai may be forever a mystery. That, or perhaps it's just not as popular from a Japanese POV, and only the niche following have enough love for it to ask "how come?" all the time.

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Re: Is Tomino's work an acquired taste?

Post by monster » Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:12 pm

Amion wrote:As for Crossbone...I have no idea. It's more like modern Gundam shows than any of his other works, and is incredible in its own right. It's even UC. Why it's in this cold, dark place in the mind of Bandai may be forever a mystery.
Why do you think that's the case? Is it just because it doesn't have an anime adaptation? If so, Gundam anime is still (mostly) not about adapting other works, although it's beginning to take on making OVA adaptations recently. Still, that shouldn't be the metric for whether or not a manga/novel is ignored (or whatever term you want to use).

I personally hope that Gundam doesn't turn into an adaptation franchise.

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Re: Is Tomino's work an acquired taste?

Post by Kuruni » Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:06 am

monster wrote:I personally hope that Gundam doesn't turn into an adaptation franchise.
Agree.

Maybe if there's MS Girls manga series, but not now. :mrgreen:
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Re: Is Tomino's work an acquired taste?

Post by Zeonista » Sat Dec 05, 2015 1:49 pm

Amion wrote:I would have ultimately had mixed and negative feelings for Reco even if it'd not been a Gundam show. I enjoyed it for the unique elements wilist it ran, and very swiftly lost interest afterward.
I can understand that reactiion, and I am certain you are not alone in it. I sometimes wonder though that if Tomino had been allowed to complete G-Reco as an original work and then make a Gundam series, that it might have done better. A bit of a disappointment for me there, if only because after renouncing his gotterdammerung habit Tomino's storytelling and character development have been a little freer. He always has had a great imagination and the ability to summon up visions of the future that are futuristic, not just 20th/21st century West with spaceships. But at the same time, we can relate to the characters in his stories, they are not strangers beyond our ability to understand.
As for Crossbone...I have no idea. It's more like modern Gundam shows than any of his other works, and is incredible in its own right. It's even UC.
You have said it. :) However, if Bandai has not tired of throwing the bucket down the UC well, anything can happen. I suppose G-Reco may have put a wrinkle in the process, but money talks, and Gundam overall has been making money again. Crossbone Gundam is on the short side, but in the current anime market a single-seaon Gundam series might be the best call.
I never saw Brain Powered. Guess I should be glad. :?
It is not on my short list of Tomino mecha anime, and that's a fact. Definitely a show where the two sides talk at/past each other while they pound away in the mighty mecha, and hero angst by the bucket-load. It is certainly not Iron Blooded Orphans! I never saw the entire series, or anything with subtitles, and that was a couple of decades gone now... So my opinions may be time-expired. :D

For those who have yet to acquire a taste for Tomino-sama and setting aside the "original three" UC series + CCA , here is my enumerated (non-ranked) short list.
1.Invincible Superman Zambot 3
If one could understand Tomino's impatience with super robot shows in their heyday and the impetus to make Mobile Suit Gundam, look no further than this anime. It is a ruthless deconstruction of the sub-genre, with the child heroes making childish mistakes and real death. But one wants them to do better, and they do so.
2. Blue Gale Xabungle
This long-overlooked classic from the early Eighties is one of his best. Tomino didn't have much of a budget, and it shows. But the story pulls the viewer through the jerky animation to follow the story of a shounen hero who at first wishes only to avenge his parents, but then ends up as a leader of the downtrodden against their technocrat masters.
3. Heavy Metal L-Gaim
This is another story featuring a hero who moves from a personal goal to a much greater destiny. The story meanders a bit in the middle, but the characters on both sides are interesting, and Tomino's collaboration with Nagano Hirano on the mecha design broke some new ground at the time.
4. Gundam Forumla 91
The Gundam next generation series that never was... There is enough in the cinematic clip show to suggest the presence of a greater and more interesting story, and provide material for many fan bull sessions. The action scenes are top-notch and worth watching if nothing else.
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Re: Is Tomino's work an acquired taste?

Post by Brave Fencer Kirby » Sat Dec 05, 2015 5:03 pm

Zeonista wrote:He always has had a great imagination and the ability to summon up visions of the future that are futuristic, not just 20th/21st century West with spaceships.
We are talking about the guy who made an anime that was "WWII, except in space and with giant robots" once (MSG), then told basically the same story two more times (Zeta and ZZ), right? Then made a series that was literally "19/20th century America, but with giant robots and invaders from the moon" (Turn A).

I haven't spoken up in this thread yet because way back in the beginning of the thread, HellCat basically said the exact same thing that I would. Tomino was the ultimate origin of a great franchise, like George Lucas was for Star Wars and Gene Roddenberry was for Star Trek, but ultimately the franchise grew and improved more once it was out of their direct control than it ever did when they were at the helm. They certainly deserve credit for what they started, but the majority of their success came from the support of other people involved in the project, not because of their personal, singular driving vision.
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Zeonista
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Re: Is Tomino's work an acquired taste?

Post by Zeonista » Sat Dec 05, 2015 5:27 pm

Brave Fencer Kirby wrote:
Zeonista wrote:He always has had a great imagination and the ability to summon up visions of the future that are futuristic, not just 20th/21st century West with spaceships.
We are talking about the guy who made an anime that was "WWII, except in space and with giant robots" once (MSG), then told basically the same story two more times (Zeta and ZZ), right? Then made a series that was literally "19/20th century America, but with giant robots and invaders from the moon" (Turn A).
As I have pointed out at length, there is more to appreciating Tomino than just Gundam, and his non-Gundam works range wider afield than most anime, even in SF and mecha genres. If you do not wish to see that, that is your own limitation. The terrestrial setting of Turn-A Gundam is not in any way a copy of fin du cicle USA, despite some of the fancy dress and architecture. It is a very different place in terms of population, culture, religion, and world view.
I haven't spoken up in this thread yet because way back in the beginning of the thread, HellCat basically said the exact same thing that I would.
The point of the discussion was not Tomino-sama''s greatness, which is beyond doubt or need for discussion four decades after Mobile Suit Gundam. It is whether or not any special appreciation is required to enjoy the stories he has had the lead in developing and bringing out to us. There is of course no real appreciation to be required, since outside the focus of UC Gundam he has tried many things and told many stories, and at least one of them ought to get an anime fan to stop and take a better look. Whether or not all or any of them holds an appeal for any MAHQ member is subjective of course! But there is enough to suggest that G-Reco's unloved reception was in its own self, and not indicative of any wider failure of appreciation of the creator, whose summed creative efforts exceed the combined efforts of Messers Lucan and Rodenberry combined.
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Quiddity
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Re: Is Tomino's work an acquired taste?

Post by Quiddity » Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:20 pm

This made me a little disappointed in Namco-Bandai, if not Tomino himself. If they wanted a big anniversary Gundam anime by Tomino-sama, that is what they should have made a deal for, and not have begged him to adapt his current project. Tomino has made interesting non-Gundam anime, and if G-Reco had been its original self and not an adaptation, we as collective fandom would have received it better. Blue Gale Xabungle, Heavy Metal Warrior L-Gaim, and Aura Battler Dunbine are excellent mecha anime that are not Gundam, but have won fan acclaim on their own merit. Putting the Gundam brand on an anime creates expectations, which in that case were not met, and the fans said so. I suppose these days UC Gundam has become the work of many hands and imaginations, and has left little room for a new idea by its creator that doesn't get radical in attempt to get some attention. Why he can't get Crossbone Gundam approved for production is unknown to me.
It being a Gundam series doesn't make a difference to me. As a huge Tomino fanboy I was going to be really excited for it whether it was a Gundam series or not. That didn't impact my anticipation of the series at all. And I don't see the show's biggest problems being caused by it being a Gundam series. The absurd amount of concepts, characters, factions, etc... thrown in at such spastic fashion, the fact that so many events occurred offscreen, the massive pacing problems, etc... none of these are suddenly solved if it wasn't a Gundam series. From the same end I don't see it being a Gundam series improving it though (although if it was only made because they were able to turn it into a Gundam show I'll accept that as the price of admission). Take out the few references that there are connecting it to earlier Gundam works and I think it can work largely on its own.
Zeonista wrote:
Brave Fencer Kirby wrote:
Zeonista wrote:He always has had a great imagination and the ability to summon up visions of the future that are futuristic, not just 20th/21st century West with spaceships.
We are talking about the guy who made an anime that was "WWII, except in space and with giant robots" once (MSG), then told basically the same story two more times (Zeta and ZZ), right? Then made a series that was literally "19/20th century America, but with giant robots and invaders from the moon" (Turn A).

Zambot was influenced by WWII as well, and there is definately a western influence on Xabungle. But I agree with the point on his imagination, there are a lot of great and unique ideas he brought to his shows, whether its the mixture of mecha anime with a fantasy world in Dunbine, the concept of the Ide in Space Runaway Ideon, the bio-relation (and overall world building) for L-Gaim and so on. If anything the best thing about G-Reco is all the different ideas Tomino brought into it. As I said earlier, he's a great ideas man, but unfortunately has been shaky at effectively putting it into action lately.
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