The Official Gundam Build Fighters Try Anime Thread Mk III

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AmuroNT1
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Re: The Official Gundam Build Fighters Try Anime Thread Mk I

YokozunaBulldozer wrote:So the stepford cuckoo boys that were arbitering the fight, I wonder what they will be using. Because I will laugh my head off if they do either:
1. Combine into SRX
2. Jetto Sutoriiiimu Atakku!
You're mixing your metaphors - Stepford Cuckoos was the name of an identical quintet of psychic sisters from the X-Men comics, derived from the novels "The Stepford Wives" and "The Midwich Cuckoos".

Also, I still reject the notion that Yosuke Kuroda is solely responsible for any changes in the show's quality. The idea that a single person has that much sway over a major production is absurd - just about the only way that could happen is if you're talking about a project that is LITERALLY a one-man show, like the Touhou Project video games. Really, Kuroda's just become a punching bag for the people who aren't happy with Try's direction, exactly like the "Kawamori's trolling mah fandom!" meme from Macross Frontier.
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latenlazy
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Re: The Official Gundam Build Fighters Try Anime Thread Mk I

AmuroNT1 wrote: Also, I still reject the notion that Yosuke Kuroda is solely responsible for any changes in the show's quality. The idea that a single person has that much sway over a major production is absurd - just about the only way that could happen is if you're talking about a project that is LITERALLY a one-man show, like the Touhou Project video games. Really, Kuroda's just become a punching bag for the people who aren't happy with Try's direction, exactly like the "Kawamori's trolling mah fandom!" meme from Macross Frontier.
It's really not that hard to believe actually. Granted how much sway one person has on a production really depends on the production, and those writing and directing dynamics are always different depending on who's involved, but it's certainly far from impossible and actually quite normal. I can remember when Aaron Sorkin left the West Wing and the subsequent seasons took a while to figure out a new identity for the show. In the meantime the show lulled quite a lot. I can also tell that without cowriters in the Newsroom good Sorkin gets unleashed with bad Sorkin and the quality of the writing becomes very different from Sorkin's writing in the West Wing. Even when it's a team of writers the staff is always small enough so that the departure or arrival of one or two persons can have a measurable impact on quality. I'm not going to say that Kuroda is definitely responsible for any increase or decrease in the quality of the show. You'd have to know a lot more about the production team than any of us are privy to to really be able to say with certainty. However, I wouldn't rule it out either.
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Re: The Official Gundam Build Fighters Try Anime Thread Mk I

Star Trek is another series where a bad staff member could single-handedly cause bad episodes, and it's quite easy to see when you look at certain episodes and their writers or directors. Sometimes a bad writer could be made up for by the rest of the production staff, but sometimes it just couldn't save episodes. Brennan Braga for instance, was a writer who, while paired with a competent director, would have competent episodes, and while paired with a bad director, would have problems. Of course this isn't always a rule but a writer CAN clearly affect what's happening in a production. Even though TNG had many competent actors, that didn't stop terrible episodes from happening when headed by a bad director or writer. One last example would be when Maurice Hurley would handle things, most of his episodes outside of Datalore (though not too amazing either and really mostly noteworthy for introducing Lore) are pretty bad (Including the infamous among Trekkies Shades of Grey.)

I'm not saying one person can make or break something all the time, but if the person is in an important position, such as script writer, story writer, director, producer, or executive producer roles, they can end up making an episode suck. Star Trek is far from the only example for this, but it's the one I know best outside of Gundam.

I know I've argued before against blaming a figurehead, but sometimes, it can be justified.
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YokozunaBulldozer
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Re: The Official Gundam Build Fighters Try Anime Thread Mk I

AmuroNT1 wrote:
YokozunaBulldozer wrote:So the stepford cuckoo boys that were arbitering the fight, I wonder what they will be using. Because I will laugh my head off if they do either:
1. Combine into SRX
2. Jetto Sutoriiiimu Atakku!
You're mixing your metaphors - Stepford Cuckoos was the name of an identical quintet of psychic sisters from the X-Men comics, derived from the novels "The Stepford Wives" and "The Midwich Cuckoos".
My bad I always remembered them as triplets. :mrgreen:
Just learned that they started as five.
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HellCat
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Re: The Official Gundam Build Fighters Try Anime Thread Mk I

AmuroNT1 wrote:
YokozunaBulldozer wrote:So the stepford cuckoo boys that were arbitering the fight, I wonder what they will be using. Because I will laugh my head off if they do either:
1. Combine into SRX
2. Jetto Sutoriiiimu Atakku!
You're mixing your metaphors - Stepford Cuckoos was the name of an identical quintet of psychic sisters from the X-Men comics, derived from the novels "The Stepford Wives" and "The Midwich Cuckoos".

Also, I still reject the notion that Yosuke Kuroda is solely responsible for any changes in the show's quality. The idea that a single person has that much sway over a major production is absurd - just about the only way that could happen is if you're talking about a project that is LITERALLY a one-man show, like the Touhou Project video games. Really, Kuroda's just become a punching bag for the people who aren't happy with Try's direction, exactly like the "Kawamori's trolling mah fandom!" meme from Macross Frontier.
I'm not looking to use anyone as a punching bag. I'm asking for clarification of facts so I can avoid such ignorance. I'm a big fan of Kuroda's Gundam work, even 00 season 2 and Trailblazer which I'm told most apparently hate. If he's not been around to lead the writing and is suddenly back in the saddle, it'd be welcome to know so I can form a decent opinion of why the show has been going wrong in my eyes.
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gunform1010
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Re: The Official Gundam Build Fighters Try Anime Thread Mk I

HellCat wrote:
AmuroNT1 wrote:
YokozunaBulldozer wrote:So the stepford cuckoo boys that were arbitering the fight, I wonder what they will be using. Because I will laugh my head off if they do either:
1. Combine into SRX
2. Jetto Sutoriiiimu Atakku!
You're mixing your metaphors - Stepford Cuckoos was the name of an identical quintet of psychic sisters from the X-Men comics, derived from the novels "The Stepford Wives" and "The Midwich Cuckoos".

Also, I still reject the notion that Yosuke Kuroda is solely responsible for any changes in the show's quality. The idea that a single person has that much sway over a major production is absurd - just about the only way that could happen is if you're talking about a project that is LITERALLY a one-man show, like the Touhou Project video games. Really, Kuroda's just become a punching bag for the people who aren't happy with Try's direction, exactly like the "Kawamori's trolling mah fandom!" meme from Macross Frontier.
I'm not looking to use anyone as a punching bag. I'm asking for clarification of facts so I can avoid such ignorance. I'm a big fan of Kuroda's Gundam work, even 00 season 2 and Trailblazer which I'm told most apparently hate. If he's not been around to lead the writing and is suddenly back in the saddle, it'd be welcome to know so I can form a decent opinion of why the show has been going wrong in my eyes.
Could one of the issues be the mistaken thiking that the show is supposed to reach the world tourney? B/c it's not. The nationals are endgame.

But then again the BBG has been given too many opportunities to pwn. Despite the fact I love the Gunpla (it's my icon!) this is a valid criticism.
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Re: The Official Gundam Build Fighters Try Anime Thread Mk I

gunform1010 wrote: Could one of the issues be the mistaken thiking that the show is supposed to reach the world tourney? B/c it's not. The nationals are endgame.
For me that is definitely not one of the issues.
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YokozunaBulldozer
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Re: The Official Gundam Build Fighters Try Anime Thread Mk I

I personally have been enjoying TRY because of all the easter eggs that have been appearing so far be it obvious, subtle, or trivial, and hobby product-based animes are always welcome. Plus, I am always anxious to see what new deviations they come up with for the gunplas and the jokes are enjoyable i.e. episode 10's ROCK N ROLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is gonna be number 1 if there is a survey of best scene in BF TRY for me. :mrgreen:
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AmuroNT1
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Re: The Official Gundam Build Fighters Try Anime Thread Mk I

@ Yokozuna: Yeah, there were five Cuckoos, but two got killed in some event comic. As far as I know the remaining three are still around, especially after they revelation that they were test tube babies made from Emma Frost's eggs. Because comics.

@ latenlazy: Your last couple of sentences are what I was really going for here. We don't actually know much of anything about Yosuke Kuroda as a person; all we know is his list of work, and even then it can be a little vague. Just because someone's listed as A writer for an episode of a show doesn't mean he's the ONLY writer for that episode; the entire writing staff generally contributes to a script, suggesting changes or additions or deletions. Even if you know who scripted that episode, we don't know for certain WHAT that person handled, if they wrote the dialog or storyboarded the fight scene or whatever. We just have the vague idea that they contributed to its existence.

That's why I feel like it's unfair to damn a single person for a show's failure OR to credit one person for its success. A television series is a gigantic undertaking, with hundreds of staff members working on every episode. And like any machine with lots of moving parts, if one tiny thing goes wrong it can have massive repercussions. Giving one person all the praise undermines the efforts of their co-workers, while blaming them for everything that went wrong is a bit like singling out one specific fire-fighter out of a whole brigade for being unable to stop a building from burning down.

Basically, the only way one person can have that kind of massive pull with a production is if there's a special case - like the much-reviled Chiaki Morosawa, who wasn't just the head writer of Seed and Destiny but also the wife of its director. And even then, to be completely honest, I've gotten the impression that she's not nearly as bad as a decade of fan-hatred has made her out to be. Sure, things like her breaking up Athrun and Cagalli pissed me off, but I KNOW she wasn't the only person on the staff screwing things up - after all, why would a writer have any say over things like the excessive use of stock footage?

But to summarize, I really am enjoying Try. As much fun as the original Build Fighters was, there was only so far you could carry certain concepts. All the "nudge and wink" jokes about the Gundam franchise were fun, but eventually all the nudging was going to get annoying. I do appreciate that Try is trying to go in its own direction while still retaining some vestiges of the old spirit. I will admit that the show has its problems, but like with all things it seems down to personal tolerance: at what point will the small dislikes override your enjoyment of the overall story? When does a cool car with a few scratches change into an ugly rust-bucket? That's all in the eye of the beholder.
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latenlazy
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Re: The Official Gundam Build Fighters Try Anime Thread Mk I

AmuroNT1 wrote:@ Yokozuna: Yeah, there were five Cuckoos, but two got killed in some event comic. As far as I know the remaining three are still around, especially after they revelation that they were test tube babies made from Emma Frost's eggs. Because comics.

@ latenlazy: Your last couple of sentences are what I was really going for here. We don't actually know much of anything about Yosuke Kuroda as a person; all we know is his list of work, and even then it can be a little vague. Just because someone's listed as A writer for an episode of a show doesn't mean he's the ONLY writer for that episode; the entire writing staff generally contributes to a script, suggesting changes or additions or deletions. Even if you know who scripted that episode, we don't know for certain WHAT that person handled, if they wrote the dialog or storyboarded the fight scene or whatever. We just have the vague idea that they contributed to its existence.

That's why I feel like it's unfair to damn a single person for a show's failure OR to credit one person for its success. A television series is a gigantic undertaking, with hundreds of staff members working on every episode. And like any machine with lots of moving parts, if one tiny thing goes wrong it can have massive repercussions. Giving one person all the praise undermines the efforts of their co-workers, while blaming them for everything that went wrong is a bit like singling out one specific fire-fighter out of a whole brigade for being unable to stop a building from burning down.

Basically, the only way one person can have that kind of massive pull with a production is if there's a special case - like the much-reviled Chiaki Morosawa, who wasn't just the head writer of Seed and Destiny but also the wife of its director. And even then, to be completely honest, I've gotten the impression that she's not nearly as bad as a decade of fan-hatred has made her out to be. Sure, things like her breaking up Athrun and Cagalli pissed me off, but I KNOW she wasn't the only person on the staff screwing things up - after all, why would a writer have any say over things like the excessive use of stock footage?

But to summarize, I really am enjoying Try. As much fun as the original Build Fighters was, there was only so far you could carry certain concepts. All the "nudge and wink" jokes about the Gundam franchise were fun, but eventually all the nudging was going to get annoying. I do appreciate that Try is trying to go in its own direction while still retaining some vestiges of the old spirit. I will admit that the show has its problems, but like with all things it seems down to personal tolerance: at what point will the small dislikes override your enjoyment of the overall story? When does a cool car with a few scratches change into an ugly rust-bucket? That's all in the eye of the beholder.
All I can really say in response is that my problem with Try is solidly in the writing. It may not be that Kuroda's presence or absence is responsible for this, but that's where the problem is. It's not as cohesive, tight, and competent as BF. At times it is downright clumsy and forced. For me at least, the problems with the writing haven't been minor. I do think you can at times isolate what parts of a production are the problems for a show (being a hobby film critic and having been on the back end of some college productions I at least believe that I can :P), and in this case I'm very certain that the problem is in the writing. In fact, within a production writing is one of the most important and influential component next to direction (with photography and acting in live production). Sometimes that responsibility for writing is very distributed. Often times that responsibility is actually very concentrated. That writing component is so influential that if you pay attention and know what you're looking for you can usually identify a writer just through the feel of the script and its tendencies. It's why a lot of people complain about writing and can claim that this writer or that writer was responsible when they're being critics.

On a tangent, I would say yes, Destiny IS as bad as we all remembered it, for me at least. I don't think Morosawa deserves all the blame for it, but in my mind she does deserve significant blame for the bad parts of the show that pertained to the writing, which was a big big piece of the problem.
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Re: The Official Gundam Build Fighters Try Anime Thread Mk I

Did anyone notice Fumi had yellow eyes when she started running towards Sekai and Shia? Are jealous people yellow-eyed monsters instead of green-eyed monsters in Japan or something?
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Re: The Official Gundam Build Fighters Try Anime Thread Mk I

Quite a few homages to Hokuto and Nanto style of fists.
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Re: The Official Gundam Build Fighters Try Anime Thread Mk I

gunform1010 wrote:
Could one of the issues be the mistaken thiking that the show is supposed to reach the world tourney? B/c it's not. The nationals are endgame.
Just out of curiosity, will this be a good or bad thing? I mean Team SeiJi became world champs and Team Try will only become national champs? I agree that at this pace the series will end at Nationals but was is the right thing to do?

Is the national champs the new be all end all OR was this all an elaborate ploy to never allow Team Try to ever reach the world stage and risk facing Sei and dodge potential backlash over New heroes Vs. Old Heroes?
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Re: The Official Gundam Build Fighters Try Anime Thread Mk I

Akashi Takumi wrote:Just out of curiosity, will this be a good or bad thing? I mean Team SeiJi became world champs and Team Try will only become national champs? I agree that at this pace the series will end at Nationals but was is the right thing to do?

Is the national champs the new be all end all OR was this all an elaborate ploy to never allow Team Try to ever reach the world stage and risk facing Sei and dodge potential backlash over New heroes Vs. Old Heroes?
I somehow got the impression that Sei isn't active anymore as a competitor. Either way, if they stick with the U-19 division, there's no chance of them facing Sei or Meijin in an official match.

And the World championship still exists from what I gathered. I believe they said the National champion gets entered into the World tournament.
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Re: The Official Gundam Build Fighters Try Anime Thread Mk I

Akashi Takumi wrote:
gunform1010 wrote:
Could one of the issues be the mistaken thiking that the show is supposed to reach the world tourney? B/c it's not. The nationals are endgame.
Just out of curiosity, will this be a good or bad thing? I mean Team SeiJi became world champs and Team Try will only become national champs? I agree that at this pace the series will end at Nationals but was is the right thing to do?

Is the national champs the new be all end all OR was this all an elaborate ploy to never allow Team Try to ever reach the world stage and risk facing Sei and dodge potential backlash over New heroes Vs. Old Heroes?
I'm not sure. But the nationals have been endgame, we just forgot they said so in the PV. Remember how they said the goal was to "win the All-Japan Tournament". Now I'd like to see the old generation be trumped by the new but that's not going happen... unless they surprise us.
monster wrote: I somehow got the impression that Sei isn't active anymore as a competitor. Either way, if they stick with the U-19 division, there's no chance of them facing Sei or Meijin in an official match.

And the World championship still exists from what I gathered. I believe they said the National champion gets entered into the World tournament.
If you mean Adou's comment on joining the open tournament, I'm pretty that's just him wanting to prove he's one of the best as the Nationals Champion and that he is worthy of dancing with top contenders.

I for one would like the All-Japan Champs facing off against the old vanguard. And also- if Sei isn't so active anymore that makes it sound he retired recently or something. Recall that in the "A Letter" OVA China said Sei was the Champion then a year ago, not the Former World Champ.

On a side note: If Sei was the former world champ two years before, he must have reclaimed his title the year after. We know Meijin won thrice but who could have been other champs between that seven year gap?
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Re: The Official Gundam Build Fighters Try Anime Thread Mk I

gunform1010 wrote:If you mean Adou's comment on joining the open tournament, I'm pretty that's just him wanting to prove he's one of the best as the Nationals Champion and that he is worthy of dancing with top contenders.
Well, maybe. I can't seem to find that part where I thought it was mentioned.
I for one would like the All-Japan Champs facing off against the old vanguard. And also- if Sei isn't so active anymore that makes it sound he retired recently or something. Recall that in the "A Letter" OVA China said Sei was the Champion then a year ago, not the Former World Champ.

On a side note: If Sei was the former world champ two years before, he must have reclaimed his title the year after. We know Meijin won thrice but who could have been other champs between that seven year gap?
Do we even know when the tournament restarted?
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Re: The Official Gundam Build Fighters Try Anime Thread Mk I

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Re: The Official Gundam Build Fighters Try Anime Thread Mk I

Just b/c I endured and loved Idol Hell doesn't mean I find this song impressive.
monster wrote:
gunform1010 wrote:If you mean Adou's comment on joining the open tournament, I'm pretty that's just him wanting to prove he's one of the best as the Nationals Champion and that he is worthy of dancing with top contenders.
Well, maybe. I can't seem to find that part where I thought it was mentioned.
Beginning of episode 12, before the Ameijin near-curbstomp.
monster wrote:
gunform1010 wrote:I for one would like the All-Japan Champs facing off against the old vanguard. And also- if Sei isn't so active anymore that makes it sound he retired recently or something. Recall that in the "A Letter" OVA China said Sei was the Champion then a year ago, not the Former World Champ.

On a side note: If Sei was the former world champ two years before, he must have reclaimed his title the year after. We know Meijin won thrice but who could have been other champs between that seven year gap?
Do we even know when the tournament restarted?
I'd say the tourney's still held during the summertime and is concurrent with the nationals.
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Re: The Official Gundam Build Fighters Try Anime Thread Mk I

gunform1010 wrote:I'd say the tourney's still held during the summertime and is concurrent with the nationals.
No, I meant the year the entire series of tournaments (regional, national, and world) restarted within the 7 years between the two series after Yajima Trading reverse engineered the system.
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Re: The Official Gundam Build Fighters Try Anime Thread Mk I

The latest episodes have really puzzled me with Fumina.

After how well BF did with women I was excited for the character. The team captain is an admitted Gundam fangirl who loves the hobby? This will probably be pretty good, especially since we've had some amusing and fair manga about the female fans in recent years.

Sadly, she's really quickly slid into being the 'Don't ask me, I'm just a girl' character familiar to many shonen shows. Winning is a huge part of that. People either hated it for being an SD or (like me) hated it for reducing her to power up for the boys. Awkwardly her stated intent when it debuted is that this was a plan on her part, to unite Sekai and Yuuma by giving them stuff via her that increased their best attributes.

Except alot of fans complained and we've hit the point where we're flat out told Fumina herself can't use the weapons with any skill and that she was genuinely riding on the backs of the other two. Depending on how you look at it this is either a planned learning curve for the team (there is some evidence of this being possible) or the production team reading online comments and reacting. The faults in Fumina and Yuuma suddenly get addressed at the exact same time we get alot of name drops and references to the season one characters fans have been clamouring for. The work of a veteran, experienced TV writer or damage control?

The other element is her response this week to the new girl training Sekai. It gave us some funny visuals but this feels to come massively out of nowhere. We've had a few small lines that suggest she's seeing Sekai as more than just 'I needed members to save the club' and she did take him to G-Muse (which, with its two appearances thus far, has just beer far too merchandising for my tastes) but really nothing that hints at any real interest. If she's threatened, why haven't we seen her try to give him training on building or trying to get him interested/give him new ideas by getting him to watch the likes of G Gundam? Heck, this could have addressed the whole 'model damage' issue if we'd seen Fumina coaching him on repairing minor damage Burning had received thus far, making it seem logical when she's jealous about him being up close and personal with another girl who possibly knows more than her.
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