Char's speech at Dakar

[Fall_Ryan]

Once every few years I go full Gundam, re-watch the UC stuff, read as much as I can, draw, write, and pop in here. 'Sup people I vaguely remember who may vaguely remember me?!

Anywho, my question is this-

Why didn't Char's speech at Dakar splinter the resistance? Making Contolism a front and center concern for the AEUG/Karaba seems like something that could very easily make Joe-Nemo-Pilot go something like; "You know, I signed up to get rid of these Titans bro's, not be Zeon Deikun's posthumous lacky."

Was the elder Zeon (and his ace son) actually respected enough, especially in 0087, for his beliefs to be seen as an ideal despite the Zabi's taking his name in vain? (Self-promoting Space prophet joke go!)

Does it not strike anyone else as being potentially very divisive and damaging to the Anti-Titans factions?

[Amion]

Once every few years I go full Gundam, re-watch the UC stuff, read as much as I can, draw, write, and pop in here. 'Sup people I vaguely remember who may vaguely remember me?!

Anywho, my question is this-

Why didn't Char's speech at Dakar splinter the resistance? Making Contolism a front and center concern for the AEUG/Karaba seems like something that could very easily make Joe-Nemo-Pilot go something like; "You know, I signed up to get rid of these Titans bro's, not be Zeon Deikun's posthumous lacky."

Was the elder Zeon (and his ace son) actually respected enough, especially in 0087, for his beliefs to be seen as an ideal despite the Zabi's taking his name in vain? (Self-promoting Space prophet joke go!)

Does it not strike anyone else as being potentially very divisive and damaging to the Anti-Titans factions?

*Squints* I vaguely remember you. Maybe. But I might say that to everyone.

Gee, Fall, I'm not sure. Let's see. From what I remember his speech was mostly about the corruption of the Earth Federation and how they're basically letting Earth get to a state of near total collapse (Which we now know from G no Reconguista to have actually happened eventually). I'm not sure there was much for a AEUG soldier to really complain about. It was hardly a Counterattack speech on the necessity to orbitally bombard Earth with celestial bodies. And if even Titans were having second guesses, or at least one particularly honorable, open-minded one, one questions if Karaba or the AEUG would.

Practically speaking, the AEUG were the ones trying to stop the Titan gas attacks. The Titans were the ones actively committing them. Putting myself in that situation, I would have to say I'd rather follow Char Aznable than a rogue radical military force blatantly attempting Spacenoid genocide. Char might be the son of Zeon Deikun, but Zeon never really did anything Zabi-level eeeeeevil from what I gather. He was more like a Heero Yuy peacemaker kind of guy. Just over-the-top insane about it. Better to follow people who want to and actively believe in defending space colonies than those making a colony-busting LASER. It's safer for your families.

Besides, the AEUG's the Anti Earth Union Group. Name says it all. People in its ranks want the Earth Federation out of Spacenoidian affairs.

On the other hand, once the blatantly, unashamedly eeeeviiill Titans are gone, the AEUG dissolves. I assume the people from the EF decided to go back and fight Axis/Neo Zeon, while the former Zeonists helped to swell Haman's ranks. In the end, the Titans were just too much of a threat for opposing ideologies to get to work splitting the AEUG until after they were gone.

Sound good?

[toysdream]

It does seem like Char's story is pretty well known to the public by this point. (Kamille discusses it with the Argama crew in one of the earliest episodes.) I don't know exactly how people found out, but maybe Sayla wrote a book.

In that case, standing up there and saying "I'm the guy who helped destroy the Zabi family from within, and now you guys have a corrupt dictatorship of your own to deal with" might have a certain credibility.

-- Mark

[Amion]

It does seem like Char's story is pretty well known to the public by this point. (Kamille discusses it with the Argama crew in one of the earliest episodes.) I don't know exactly how people found out, but maybe Sayla wrote a book.

In that case, standing up there and saying "I'm the guy who helped destroy the Zabi family from within, and now you guys have a corrupt dictatorship of your own to deal with" might have a certain credibility.

-- Mark

Maybe that's the deep, dark truth all along. Sayla wrote a book called Gone with the Solarwind or something, and has been hiding ever since just in case dearest Casval got mad.

[excalibur2008]

In that case, standing up there and saying "I'm the guy who helped destroy the Zabi family from within, and now you guys have a corrupt dictatorship of your own to deal with" might have a certain credibility.

It was really one member of the family he directly killed while the Earth Federation did most of the work on that regard with infighting doing the rest.

Plus Char was a ginormous douchebag during the One Year War, and Kindof at the end of Zeta for running off and leaving the AUEG to save the freaking planet, and then In Char's Counterattack with the whole planing to murder billions for what sounded increasingly like just a revenge scheme against Amuro.

Yeah, why are we supposed to like this guy again?

[toysdream]

I'm sure the people listening to his Dakar speech would bear a grudge against Char for all the rotten stuff he was going to do in the future. What was he thinking?

-- Mark

[excalibur2008]

I'm sure the people listening to his Dakar speech would bear a grudge against Char for all the rotten stuff he was going to do in the future. What was he thinking?

Well The Origin does imply he may have started the One Year War and that is going to be animated soon, does that count for something?

[toysdream]

How the heck do you figure that?

-- Mark

[excalibur2008]

How the heck do you figure that?

Apparently he hacked an Earth Federation asteroid monitoring station and turned it off meaning an asteroid could hit a Zeon colony and raise tensions. Or at least thats what something I read online says.

Besides that would they really trust a guy who to take credit for the Zabis has to admit to basically getting his own superiors killed. I mean what if he gets pissed at someone for whatever reason whats to stop him for giving them the Garma treatment of tricking them to their doom.

[excalibur2008]

How the heck do you figure that?

Apparently he hacked an Earth Federation asteroid monitoring station and turned it off meaning an asteroid could hit a Zeon colony and raise tensions. Or at least thats what something I read online says.

Besides that would they really trust a guy who to take credit for the Zabis has to admit to basically getting his own superiors killed. I mean what if he gets pissed at someone for whatever reason whats to stop him for giving them the Garma treatment of tricking them to their doom.

[toysdream]

It's a sad day when people depend on TV Tropes for their understanding of Gundam plots. In the comic, Char learns about the asteroid by hacking into a Federation monitoring station, but the fact that the alarm doesn't get raised in time appears to be purely a screwup on the Federation side.

-- Mark

[Xenosynth]

As for the point about the superiors, they were generally hated people by the Earth I imagine. Not to do the obvious, but I'm sure if one of Hitler's subordinates killed him, the subordinate wouldn't be distrusted because of that. After what the Zabis had done, who cares if Char 'betrayed' them, if he was responsible for the deaths of people who were the aggressors in the OYW, people would like him even more. From my understanding, most other Spacenoids wouldn't like the Zabis and of course wouldn't like the Titans, and the Earth Federation Government itself was under the thumb of the Titans, this all means that really, I don't think that Char's speech would in any way fracture the alliance. Honestly, at that time, the Titans were undoubtedly the enemies of pretty much everyone that wasn't in the Titans. Though, I haven't actually watched Zeta Gundam in 2 years now so I might be a bit fuzzy. But I think that my thoughts should be about correct?

[excalibur2008]

As for the point about the superiors, they were generally hated people by the Earth I imagine. Not to do the obvious, but I'm sure if one of Hitler's subordinates killed him, the subordinate wouldn't be distrusted because of that. After what the Zabis had done, who cares if Char 'betrayed' them, if he was responsible for the deaths of people who were the aggressors in the OYW, people would like him even more.

True but that wasn't why he killed them.

It was becuase of something they may have done i.e. killing his father and he went far beyond targeting just the Zabis that would have been responsible if they had done it, he went after all of them.

It kind of makes him look axe crazy.

I'm just wondering why everyone thinks he was space colonist leadership material just 7 years after largely coming off as an amoral douchebag.

[Xenosynth]

True, but how are they all to know that? I imagine the public doesn't know all the details we get to know as viewers. WE know that Char is really selfish and self centered, and that the whole being responsible for Garma/Kycillia's death thing was just to forward his revenge, but I don't know if the general public at large would realize his exact motives.

I just don't know why the speech would be doing so much harm as you are implying. I don't think it was something that would completely turn anyone against the Titans, but I also don't think it would harm the AEUG any (and the Titan's actions there kinda made them look even worse).

[excalibur2008]

True, but how are they all to know that? I imagine the public doesn't know all the details we get to know as viewers. WE know that Char is really selfish and self centered, and that the whole being responsible for Garma/Kycillia's death thing was just to forward his revenge, but I don't know if the general public at large would realize his exact motives.

I just don't know why the speech would be doing so much harm as you are implying. I don't think it was something that would completely turn anyone against the Titans, but I also don't think it would harm the AEUG any (and the Titan's actions there kinda made them look even worse).

Oh, I don't really have that much of a problem with the speech I'm just confused on how Char became so important to people living in space and the AEUG despite pretty much only developing any interest in it what so ever during Zeta. Largely becuase it seems to just come out of the blue.

[SuperChar Trek]

Why didn't Char's speech at Dakar splinter the resistance? Making Contolism a front and center concern for the AEUG/Karaba seems like something that could very easily make Joe-Nemo-Pilot go something like; "You know, I signed up to get rid of these Titans bro's, not be Zeon Deikun's posthumous lacky."

I don't think it's unfair to say that a large majority of AEUG/Karaba supported Zeon's ideals [and by extension, Char's potential role], or some form of it. At least the major players did. Amuro did. Hayato did. Bright did. Kamille did. Melanie Hue Carbine and Wong Lee did. Blex Forer did.

The splintering comes with how to achieve those ideals.

[ShadowCell]

I don't know exactly how people found out, but maybe Sayla wrote a book.

medical school doesn't pay for itself y'know

[Brave Fencer Kirby]

I don't think it's unfair to say that a large majority of AEUG/Karaba supported Zeon's ideals [and by extension, Char's potential role], or some form of it. At least the major players did. Amuro did. Hayato did. Bright did. Kamille did. Melanie Hue Carbine and Wong Lee did. Blex Forer did.

I think it's a stretch to suggest that the majority of those people actually bought into Deikun's Contolism in any meaningful sense. Most of them are EFF veterans who joined the AEUG to stop the Titans, with no political goals beyond that. Wong Lee worked for Anaheim and just wanted to see their business interests protected. Kamille is probably the closest thing to a Deikun supporter, and that's largely because he was mentored by Char. It's telling that most AEUG vets joined Londo Bell -- a peacekeeping force intended to prevent groups like Zeon, the Titans, or Axis from attacking the Earth Sphere again. They didn't go into politics, or join Char in his attempt to push the Earth Federation toward Deikun's ideal, or spin off their own permanent AEUG-esque faction that opposed both the Earth Federation and Zeon supporters.

Generally speaking, they don't have political ambitions. They just want to protect people from mass murderers.

[Amion]

I don't think it's unfair to say that a large majority of AEUG/Karaba supported Zeon's ideals [and by extension, Char's potential role], or some form of it. At least the major players did. Amuro did. Hayato did. Bright did. Kamille did. Melanie Hue Carbine and Wong Lee did. Blex Forer did.

I think it's a stretch to suggest that the majority of those people actually bought into Deikun's Contolism in any meaningful sense. Most of them are EFF veterans who joined the AEUG to stop the Titans, with no political goals beyond that. Wong Lee worked for Anaheim and just wanted to see their business interests protected. Kamille is probably the closest thing to a Deikun supporter, and that's largely because he was mentored by Char. It's telling that most AEUG vets joined Londo Bell -- a peacekeeping force intended to prevent groups like Zeon, the Titans, or Axis from attacking the Earth Sphere again. They didn't go into politics, or join Char in his attempt to push the Earth Federation toward Deikun's ideal, or spin off their own permanent AEUG-esque faction that opposed both the Earth Federation and Zeon supporters.

Generally speaking, they don't have political ambitions. They just want to protect people from mass murderers.

Exactly. Though to me it seems like Mr. Wong may have wanted to see something like an independent colonial state that wasn't subject to the Federation mandates. Course, he's only one, loud, rude and obnoxious voice among many.

This is off topic, but I think Char might have been able to do some real good with his Contolism if he'd just "played the clown" a lot sooner and stepped up as a world figure, rather than going incognito. But like what's already been said, he's a selfish character.

[SuperChar Trek]

I think it's a stretch to suggest that the majority of those people actually bought into Deikun's Contolism in any meaningful sense.

Political ambition isn't required for it to be meaningful. Especially if your belief is, like Amuro's, that humanity will learn from its mistakes and make the transition naturally.

All of those listed characters, most of them being AEUG/Karaba leaders, have explicitly stated in dialogue a belief in moving humanity to space and protecting earth from further degradation. That's roughly contolism in a nutshell.